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This is only true in some situations.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Defender's with TA are going to dominate the AoE -res game. In other words, they will make their teammates do more damage to entire groups than most any other AT/Powerset is going to. It's not by too too much, however. Disruption + Acid Arrow will results in -40% damage resistance. Most of the other sets get -30% from a single power.
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You can only get 40% if ALL of the following are true:
- Two powers (which need to be slotted separately) are used
- There are fewer than 10 enemies (Disruption's target cap)
- All enemies are within Acid Arrow's teeny tiny radius (8 feet)
- All enemies are hit by Acid Arrow (as it requires a to-hit check)
In many situations, the resistance debuff advantage is either very slight or nonexistant. I certainly wouldn't describe it as "dominating."
And to think the cutdown to animations times made not much of an impact one ta/archery.
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Originally Posted by Gilia
Defender's with TA are going to dominate the AoE -res game. In other words, they will make their teammates do more damage to entire groups than most any other AT/Powerset is going to. It's not by too too much, however. Disruption + Acid Arrow will results in -40% damage resistance. Most of the other sets get -30% from a single power.
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Quote:
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This is only true in some situations. You can only get 40% if ALL of the following are true: - Two powers (which need to be slotted separately) are used - There are fewer than 10 enemies (Disruption's target cap) - All enemies are within Acid Arrow's teeny tiny radius (8 feet) - All enemies are hit by Acid Arrow (as it requires a to-hit check) In many situations, the resistance debuff advantage is either very slight or nonexistant. I certainly wouldn't describe it as "dominating." |
Furthermore TA lacks a solid -regen power. EMP Arrow is nice, but just isnt up enough compared to the likes of LR/Benumb/HE etc, and has a rather unfortunate drawback.
I'm not saying TA is bad, but the moment you look at Sleet it is hard to say TA still has an outstanding advantage with 3(Three!) powers it needs to equal 1 power in another set.
Ok... Opinions then. I'm looking for a Archer with gadgets. Rank these choices for me (best to worst) if you would:
Blaster Archery/Devices
Corruptor Archery/Traps
Corrupter Archery/Trick Arrow
Defender Traps/Archery
Defender Trick Arrow/Archery
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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Yeah, you're right. Dominating was too strong of a word.|
Originally Posted by Happy_Thoughts
In many situations, the resistance debuff advantage is either very slight or nonexistant. I certainly wouldn't describe it as "dominating."
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
This. Also forgetting about Cold? Sleet is -30% resistance, can be slotted with achilles heel for a chance for -20% more resistance debuff, and can be double stacked, that has the potential for -80% resistance debuff over a very large radius, and also features a very important lingering debuff, so that even if an enemy leaves the area of sleet or gets shoved off the target cap on sleet they will still be tagged with that debuff. Stormies can do the same, although they don't get the beast of a power Heatloss for another -30% resistance and clockstopper (-300% rchg) that can be used once every minute and a half which turns out to be up whenever you would ever really need it.
Furthermore TA lacks a solid -regen power. EMP Arrow is nice, but just isnt up enough compared to the likes of LR/Benumb/HE etc, and has a rather unfortunate drawback. I'm not saying TA is bad, but the moment you look at Sleet it is hard to say TA still has an outstanding advantage with 3(Three!) powers it needs to equal 1 power in another set. |
However, with the same circumstances you mentioned, you'd be stacking Disruption Arrow, and Acid Arrow would fire off more often. Again, the smaller radius of Acid Arrow combined with the smaller base numbers of these two powers means Sleet will still win out. But the same build happens to have the same potential: -80% res (Acid + Proc + Disruption*2). On a fast group, you'd probably find the proc more useful on fast recharging Acid arrow, rather than the procing every 10 seconds of a single instance of Sleet.
The real heartbreak in this comparison is that Controller/Corruptor's Sleet is just as good, and their Acid/Disruption Arrows are not.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Diverse, busy, fun, relaxing. Kind of like kinetics, but without having to waste your time taking care of your whiny teammates. Kind of like traps, but without all the razzle dazzle. No need to worry about healing or buffing. No need to worry about an anchor running off, or dying.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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I'd say...|
Originally Posted by Jet_Boy
Ok... Opinions then. I'm looking for a Archer with gadgets. Rank these choices for me (best to worst) if you would:
Blaster Archery/Devices Corruptor Archery/Traps Corrupter Archery/Trick Arrow Defender Traps/Archery Defender Trick Arrow/Archery |
1. Traps/Archery
2. Archery/Devices
3. Trick Arrow/Archery
I don't think there's a huge difference between defenders and corruptors with those combos.
Trick Arrow could definitely use a lift.
Wait, THREE powers to match Sleet? I count two. First you use Oil Slick Arrow for Slow, -Def, and knockdown. Then you use Disruption Arrow for -Res. And we still haven't lit the Oil Slick. Do that and you've surpassed Sleet in damage. For extra credit, add Acid Arrow for more of both -Def and -Res, but aim for a hard target since the oil likely has defeated the rest by now.
Really, TA has two phases: Pre-oil and post-oil. Oil Slick Arrow is just that good.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Trick arrow is amazing.
Archery to me is a touch more boring, but effective.
TA is amazing because you have something for any situation, and that makes it amazing with illusion as my controller was, but with archery as a defender you gain more crowd control, and debuffing options.
I even like Net Arrow.
There is, in my oppinion nothing bad about TA at all. I only see the good stuff about it, because it has been seen to save so many people in my team so many times.
It's accurate, it offers holds, builds containment (If controllers use it) and accents pretty much any other powerset because it does everything and fills the holes in just about any secondary and some primary's other than having a heal.
I have a level 50 TA/A Defender and he's very very fun to play. I'd have to say that he is probably not as effective as my rad/ defender, but he's more fun.
Since you have an answer for everything in game, it requires lots of decisions. With the rad/, it's so simple: AM your team, put your goop on the boss, maybe throw out a heal aura, maybe shoot something and you're done. With TA, you have to actually think about what to do in a given circumstance.
Lighting Oil Slick and watching the room burn is one of the most spectacularly cool things in the game. Few experiences top this.
Because of the variety of powers available, I found it was reasonably easy to cap his ranged defense. Even after the BotZ nerf, I was still able to do it easier than on other toons.
Rain of Arrows comes back SO quickly.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
Thanks allot all gave me a bit to think about.
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The real reason is because Sleet has a bigger -res than Disruption Arrow. To match it's debuff power you need to fire Acid Arrow as well. So it's more like three powers and something to light the oil slick.|
Originally Posted by McNum
Wait, THREE powers to match Sleet? I count two. First you use Oil Slick Arrow for Slow, -Def, and knockdown. Then you use Disruption Arrow for -Res. And we still haven't lit the Oil Slick. Do that and you've surpassed Sleet in damage. For extra credit, add Acid Arrow for more of both -Def and -Res, but aim for a hard target since the oil likely has defeated the rest by now.
Really, TA has two phases: Pre-oil and post-oil. Oil Slick Arrow is just that good. |
But yes, the damage is considerably more and OSA is also an awesome power.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
I've played the same toon for about 2 years straight my TA/A. Most have already covered it, but it is indeed the jack of all trades and a master of none. I primarily use it for PvP, but when in PvE I have tons of fun. I'm able to solo with no issues other than being a bit slower than the rest. I personally enjoy using strategy as opposed to just being able to steamroll.
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You know, I just realized something I might have to investigate... If Oil Slick Arrow has a Defense debuff, does it take those sets? In particular the Achilles Heel set? I must admit that the idea of having a built in -Res proc in Oil Slick is very tempting. With proper slotting and/or Alpha Slot it shouldn't cost much in recharge or damage to do so either.
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Originally Posted by Gilia
The real reason is because Sleet has a bigger -res than Disruption Arrow. To match it's debuff power you need to fire Acid Arrow as well. So it's more like three powers and something to light the oil slick.
But yes, the damage is considerably more and OSA is also an awesome power. |
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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Yep
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Originally Posted by McNum
You know, I just realized something I might have to investigate... If Oil Slick Arrow has a Defense debuff, does it take those sets? In particular the Achilles Heel set?
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I guess I will give it a shot then, but what is traps/archery like?
And since there is more ability to choose powers should i choose things like ice arrow now?
If you have a level 50 Trick Archer that hasn't done the Incarnate arc, I recommend you at least run the first mission. Then try out Oil Slick Arrow on the AVs. Wow. Just wow. I don't think I've seen an AV die that fast before.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Quote:
They're not really AVs in the first mish, they're "echos".
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Originally Posted by McNum
If you have a level 50 Trick Archer that hasn't done the Incarnate arc, I recommend you at least run the first mission. Then try out Oil Slick Arrow on the AVs. Wow. Just wow. I don't think I've seen an AV die that fast before.
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They're still AVs, we're just buffed so much that they don't stand a chance. Oil Slick in particular is exceptional at killing these AVs as each tick of damage starts a 400-ish point DoT effect. They pretty much melt like minions.
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Originally Posted by anonymoose
They're not really AVs in the first mish, they're "echos".
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Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Quote:
Rain of Fire is also other-worldy.
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Originally Posted by McNum
If you have a level 50 Trick Archer that hasn't done the Incarnate arc, I recommend you at least run the first mission. Then try out Oil Slick Arrow on the AVs. Wow. Just wow. I don't think I've seen an AV die that fast before.
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I've heard people say that when you make a TA, you either really like/hate it so I made one out of curiosity. I made a TA/A, and in a few days I've gotten it up to lvl 22-- I'm pretty much in love with the set. My favorite 50's have been strong debuffers (ice/cold and fire/therm corr) and by comparison, TA is liberating. I don't have to worry about maintaining shields as a buffer, or being a healer, just making sure my friends are doing a ton of damage while my enemies are covered in a gross acidic-gluey slurry of despair. 
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That and making it aim for the face |
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
My impresions of TA/A:
Oh, and Stunning Shot is the boxing glove arrow. We just need an alternative animation for it. |
Also, I agree that Trick Arrow was the last thing I ever wanted as a Defender primary (though I love playing defenders), and as a result my TA/A defender never took advantage of the set in the ways some folks here describe. He's still fun to play as a blaster-esque character with a few of the better debuffs and holds, but I'm probably more of a gimp than I realize compared to a true blaster A/TA or a less naive TA player.
Stunning Shot is actually the one Archery power I didn't take. Single-target stun that late in the game seemed pointless...
1. Flash Arrow(-To-Hit)
2. Glue Arrow(-Recharge(20%))
3. Poison Gas(-Damage(-31.25%))
4. Oil Slick(Knock down)
5. EMP Arrow(Hold + various other endurance effects)
Also its two single target attacks Entangle and Ice Arrow both have Slow and -Recharge components. There is actually a lot of mitigation in the set.
Oils Slick and EMP are on long recharges, they aren't always up when the chips are down.
The other three powers combined, drop incoming damage to:
69% (Posion Gas Arrow drops damage)
* 75% (slotted Flash Arrow makes some attacks miss)
* 80% (Glue Arrow slows down attack rate)
= 42% or so of what it was, and thats against even con mobs.
They still don't make me (or my team) feel safe against that rezzed Freak Tank who's got it in for me. Both the numbers and my ingame experiences said to me that TA took a lot of powers to do too little.
Contrast with slotted Radiation Infection, which drops incoming damage vs even-cons to 10% all on its own.
Or Traps Force Field Generator, keeping almost half the damage off you at all times for no in-combat animation cost.
I like the set, but it seems to spend some of its points in things that don't matter.
The end effects of EMP depend on Elec Blast or a teammate to do anything other than drain a +0 boss with slotting - the drain is less than 100% vs +1's, +0 lts and below are held anyway while drained.
The extra Hold in the primary (Ice Arrow) just happens to not stack with the set that maybe 3/4 of Defenders take for their secondary, because it has a stun (Stunning Shot).
The fact that Flash Arrow is unresistable is nice and all, but I'd rather it just had a decent base value instead of not losing any of its 10% vs AVs.