DN does not cause fear, but the debuff does generate agro. I have no idea what your team leader was talking about, unless they did not want to generate agro from Romulus or he has a completely unique AI script. A single Darkest Night would not create a grief tag, which causes foes to flee if they are completely over matched.
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Romulus will naturally run around unless you have someone actively keeping him aggroed (Shield Scrappers are so good for this). Your DN was not at fault.
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Originally Posted by crayhal
I don't want to be a hindrance on the team, so I'm posing this question to the vets out there. Does Soul Mastery: Darkest Night cause fear or make the enemy run away?
On an ITF, I put DN on Rom during the PC attack then went to work on smashing the PC. After the robots go down, Rom wasn't around, but my DN toggle was still on, so I knew he was still alive because the toggle turns off when the target dies. Then the leader complained, 'Somebody put sh*t on him. Stop making him run away.' I look around and see Rom at the foot of the tall metal building with the leader. I explain to him that I have DN on him and that it's a to-hit debuff. And replies, 'Turn it off, it aint helping.' I turn it off and read the power description in between missions. Nowhere in it says that it does fear. Am I missing something? |
Team leader was an idiot.
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darkest night is an awesome power, most of the AV AI is quite retarded and soemtimes will run around like chicken with their heads cut off
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You're missing a competent group.
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Originally Posted by crayhal
Am I missing something?
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Did anyone cast something like Rain of Fire?
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Originally Posted by crayhal
I don't want to be a hindrance on the team, so I'm posing this question to the vets out there. Does Soul Mastery: Darkest Night cause fear or make the enemy run away?
On an ITF, I put DN on Rom during the PC attack then went to work on smashing the PC. After the robots go down, Rom wasn't around, but my DN toggle was still on, so I knew he was still alive because the toggle turns off when the target dies. Then the leader complained, 'Somebody put sh*t on him. Stop making him run away.' I look around and see Rom at the foot of the tall metal building with the leader. I explain to him that I have DN on him and that it's a to-hit debuff. And replies, 'Turn it off, it aint helping.' I turn it off and read the power description in between missions. Nowhere in it says that it does fear. Am I missing something? |
Darkest Night is a continual 'auto-hit' on the critter. If a critter is being continually and successfully attacked, but their attacks keep missing, their AI tells them to run, i.e., they failed their morale check. This is part of the whole 'fleeing critters' problem. Castle has said as much. Castle has also said that the morale check is not going away, and so, in such instances, the critter will flee, however, he's looking into the ridiculous lengths a critter will go to get away (such as fleeing past visual draw distance and aggro and then walking back un-aggroed).
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Honestly, I don't remember. But for my reference, would that cause foes to run outside the rain?|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Did anyone cast something like Rain of Fire?
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Darkest Night is a continual 'auto-hit' on the critter. If a critter is being continually and successfully attacked, but their attacks keep missing, their AI tells them to run, i.e., they failed their morale check.
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Yes, Taunt should always override the run away effect. One thing to remember is that Fear will never, in itself, cause a foe to run. The Fear effect is for the foe to cower in place, and not attack unless attacked back. If the run effect activates, it's because the Fear effect caused him to be hit by several attacks while he was unable to hit. (I'm guessing this is why low level MOBs sometimes run when hit by Fear. It's not because the Fear is making them run, but because they can't hit because they con grey) |
Originally Posted by crayhal
I see... I did try Gloom on Rom which has a taunt and he ran several paces in my direction and then ran away from me. If I had the actual Taunt power, will he come at me for sure?
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Anyway, I personally consider it a bad idea to continue a toggle on a running critter. You never know what spawn that critter is going to run into, and aggro with your toggle. So while I'll agree your team leader was an idiot, Rom might not have been the best target to drop Darkest Night on. Of course, you want to make sure it's an anchor which won't be easily killed, but that's just something you have to decide based on the conditions of the fight.
I would say that if he was the only one being effected by the debuff, and he had run off and was no longer attacking, there really was no reason to keep it up. So turning it off was probably a good idea, just not for the reason the team leader said.
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Fear and Avoid are two different effects. Fear is, as you say, the effect that makes them cower in place and attack once for every time they take damage. Avoid is the one that makes them run away. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Yes, Taunt should always override the run away effect. One thing to remember is that Fear will never, in itself, cause a foe to run. The Fear effect is for the foe to cower in place, and not attack unless attacked back. If the run effect activates, it's because the Fear effect caused him to be hit by several attacks while he was unable to hit. (I'm guessing this is why low level MOBs sometimes run when hit by Fear. It's not because the Fear is making them run, but because they can't hit because they con grey)
Anyway, I personally consider it a bad idea to continue a toggle on a running critter. You never know what spawn that critter is going to run into, and aggro with your toggle. So while I'll agree your team leader was an idiot, Rom might not have been the best target to drop Darkest Night on. Of course, you want to make sure it's an anchor which won't be easily killed, but that's just something you have to decide based on the conditions of the fight. I would say that if he was the only one being effected by the debuff, and he had run off and was no longer attacking, there really was no reason to keep it up. So turning it off was probably a good idea, just not for the reason the team leader said. |
As you can see here (linky) Rain of Fire has an Avoid effect. Basically anything in there is gonna try like hell to get out.
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This is kinda wrong. There are in fact 2 types of fear effects (well 3, kinda). The "stand and quake" one is called Terrorized and is the one most people associate with things like Fearsome Stare. However powers like Spectral Terror have that plus another sort, "Afraid". This, I think, was the original Fear effect which was largely changed way back (i3 or even i2?) and is the old "Run away in blind terror" effect. Spectral Terror still has it in its single target "Fear" attacks, things will tend to run from Spectral Terror for 2-3 seconds (more if slotted which is one reason not to slot Speccie with Fear IOs) before it wears off. Howling Twilight also has the same effect, you can easily test it by hitting Lieutenants with it, they won't be stunned but they will leg it away from you every time thanks to the Mag 3 Afraid effect it has.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Yes, Taunt should always override the run away effect. One thing to remember is that Fear will never, in itself, cause a foe to run. The Fear effect is for the foe to cower in place, and not attack unless attacked back. If the run effect activates, it's because the Fear effect caused him to be hit by several attacks while he was unable to hit. (I'm guessing this is why low level MOBs sometimes run when hit by Fear. It's not because the Fear is making them run, but because they can't hit because they con grey)
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The kinda third is the "Avoid" effect powers like Rains have which encourages things to get out of the area of effect but that's not a Fear effect, just a "Run away" one.
In any case what you had here is probably what people have already posted, Morale breaking, possibly caused by the debuff, possibly by things around him dying, possibly from being hit or a combination of all 3. Taunts and Immobs are the best way to deal with it really.
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That's all well and good, but a single Brute's Darkest Night debuff, at 56% ENH is -16.4% To Hit.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Darkest Night is a continual 'auto-hit' on the critter. If a critter is being continually and successfully attacked, but their attacks keep missing, their AI tells them to run, i.e., they failed their morale check.
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After factoring AV resistances, that debuff should be too insignificant to cause any AV to flee.
I'll also add that I have never seen Rom run from Darkest Night, nor from multiple -To Hit effects on him.
He definitely runs from things like RoF.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Rom might not have been the best target to drop Darkest Night on. Of course, you want to make sure it's an anchor which won't be easily killed
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Once the comp is down, you only have two really good anchors - Rom, or Requiem.
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Hm. That's weird, I didn't realize that "Avoid" and "Afraid" are two different things. It makes sense, though, Avoid is moving away from a given location, while Afraid is getting away from whoever is trying to hurt you. Not to say that it's actually implemented that way, but that's the intention. (In pracrice, Afraid is always cast from a dropped pseudo-pet, so it could just as easily be causing the victim to move away from the pet)|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
The kinda third is the "Avoid" effect powers like Rains have which encourages things to get out of the area of effect but that's not a Fear effect, just a "Run away" one.
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I was going to say that Avoid might be intended to stop when you leave the AoE of the effect, however, I'd noticed Caltrops sending foes in to a frenzy, particularly werewolves, who with their high speed movement tend to take off all over the terrain when you drop a Caltrop patch. However, looking at CoD shows that Caltrops has the Afraid effect, not Avoid. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or CoD is wrong, or what.
Aside from that and Spooky, though, Fear is Fear. To me, what Spooky does is "old Fear". And that's only his single target attack, his AoE aura is normal Fear. (So anyone he sends running away screaming will still be Terrorized when and if he comes back)
BTW, when I said "the run away effect", that was really referring to Afraid/Avoid. Although the effect triggered when a critter is attacked and cannot hit the attacker many not be Afraid per se. The result is the same, though, and both can be overcome by Taunt.
If I recall, the only way Darkest Night would cause something to run away is if it breaks their morale due to their inability to hit very well...
But alas I'm not familiar with Romulus, I think the only time I fought him was on my Archery/Energy Blaster and was about a year ago... So I don't know what would cause him to run away (Unless they still haven't fixed the broken AI that makes things run away for stupid reasons, there is a thread somewhere about it...)
In addition--I don't think I've seen this mentioned above--the -dmg that DN applies is one of the most useful defenses against AVs. (And I can't remember which it is, but if a -res affect is applied at the same time, one or the other is enhanced.)
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I'm not familiar with the Brute's version of Darkest Night. Are you saying it's not auto-hit like the Defender version? Is it not a toggle?|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
That's all well and good, but a single Brute's Darkest Night debuff, at 56% ENH is -16.4% To Hit.
After factoring AV resistances, that debuff should be too insignificant to cause any AV to flee. I'll also add that I have never seen Rom run from Darkest Night, nor from multiple -To Hit effects on him. He definitely runs from things like RoF. |
Rommie, like any AV will run due to morale break if there's no Taunt.
Usually, someone has Taunt in a team of 8.
Morale Break is another effect on top of the 3 'fears'.
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It's autohit and it's a toggle.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I'm not familiar with the Brute's version of Darkest Night. Are you saying it's not auto-hit like the Defender version? Is it not a toggle?
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Rommie, like any AV will run due to morale break if there's no Taunt.
Usually, someone has Taunt in a team of 8. |
They obviously had at least the OPs punchvoke, and the amount of -To Hit debuff applied from darkest night was probably something like -3 or -4%.
While the toggle won't cause enemies to run (directly) it will aggro any enemies the anchor runs past. I don't know what the situation was but since a lot of teams leave groups surrounding the Rommie fight leaving a debuff toggle on him (or any enemy that likes to run) could draw aggro down on the team.
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I have Gloom which has a high Taunt effect as well as damage. I used it on Rom and based on previous posts, taunt should override his morale check and he should've come to me. However, he didn't chase me, so I guess someone else in the team had another fear/avoid power going. Thanks all for the replies! It's been helpful.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Rommie, like any AV will run due to morale break if there's no Taunt.
Usually, someone has Taunt in a team of 8. |
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Well, if they won't get rid of the cowardice code, it *would* be nice if they could fix it so that critters don't run so far that they actually despawn. I was in a pick up group trying to take out Deathsurge the other day, and he made a break for it. He ran around for a few minutes, came perilously close to a couple of the various Arbiter Drones, then ran up the hill towards the generator station and vanished. Much swearing was heard. (Putting the critters on a leash and moving the cowardice trigger point would both help a great deal. Giant Monsters should not flip out the moment someone flings a Seeker Drone at them.)
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Darkest Night is a continual 'auto-hit' on the critter. If a critter is being continually and successfully attacked, but their attacks keep missing, their AI tells them to run, i.e., they failed their morale check. This is part of the whole 'fleeing critters' problem. Castle has said as much. Castle has also said that the morale check is not going away, and so, in such instances, the critter will flee, however, he's looking into the ridiculous lengths a critter will go to get away (such as fleeing past visual draw distance and aggro and then walking back un-aggroed).
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This is the most painful thing I've ever read.|
Originally Posted by crayhal
'Turn it off, it aint helping.'
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Your team leader was an absolute idiot, and probably an AE-farmed noob. Any experienced player will know that debuff powers are always helpful regardless of how effective they are on AV's. I'll bet he gets pissed off when Rad Emission characters put down their anchors on bosses.
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I assume this effect applies to all auto-hit toggles, like Rad? Never tried DN, but noticed this effect on several critters on my Rad.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Darkest Night is a continual 'auto-hit' on the critter. If a critter is being continually and successfully attacked, but their attacks keep missing, their AI tells them to run, i.e., they failed their morale check. This is part of the whole 'fleeing critters' problem. Castle has said as much. Castle has also said that the morale check is not going away, and so, in such instances, the critter will flee, however, he's looking into the ridiculous lengths a critter will go to get away (such as fleeing past visual draw distance and aggro and then walking back un-aggroed).
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I don't want to be a hindrance on the team, so I'm posing this question to the vets out there. Does Soul Mastery: Darkest Night cause fear or make the enemy run away?
On an ITF, I put DN on Rom during the PC attack then went to work on smashing the PC. After the robots go down, Rom wasn't around, but my DN toggle was still on, so I knew he was still alive because the toggle turns off when the target dies. Then the leader complained, 'Somebody put sh*t on him. Stop making him run away.'
I look around and see Rom at the foot of the tall metal building with the leader. I explain to him that I have DN on him and that it's a to-hit debuff. And replies, 'Turn it off, it aint helping.'
I turn it off and read the power description in between missions. Nowhere in it says that it does fear. Am I missing something?