Disney officially retires the "Princess Genre"
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2010-11-22 14:37 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Mario and Bowser
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Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
But what will Rule 34 be applied to now?
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1. Up.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Mario and Bowser
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Hmmm, that casts the whole Super Mario series in a new light. A tale of forbidden love, beards, and hiding things from even your brother?
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While his arrival was a bit too late to make the Nostalgia Critic's list of Top Eleven Disney Villains, "Friends on the Other Side" did make his Top 11 Villain Songs list.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Side Note: If Dr. Felicier isn't elevated to a Triple A villain in the Disney-verse, I will riot. All by myself.
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So Bowser kidnapping the Princess all those times was an act of jealousy?|
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
Hmmm, that casts the whole Super Mario series in a new light. A tale of forbidden love, beards, and hiding things from even your brother?
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Guess he just wanted Mario to pay attention to him.
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Either that, or it was the only way Mario and Bowser felt comfortable being in public together.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
So Bowser kidnapping the Princess all those times was an act of jealousy?
Guess he just wanted Mario to pay attention to him. |
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Tangled is supposed to be a hybrid. They wanted to teach CG animators the traditional 2D animation storytelling techniques. If they did their job well, it'll be a CG movie that will look and feel like one of the old Disney classics. We'll see if they manage to pull it off.
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Originally Posted by Zekiran_Immortal
I'm just not so sure about lumping in a clearly CG movie like Tangled in with all their other traditionally-animated works.
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The Princess and the Frog was OK but not great. Most of the songs were OK but the production numbers somewhat lacking. It's biggest drawback was the appearance of "hey we need a black princess to market, quick find a story" feel to it.
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o.O|
Originally Posted by Smersh
To the story, I say, "Good."
Creating a feminine ideal that is passive and waits for the perfect prince to come along is an idea I'm not particularly keen on selling to my daughter. Women are more than capable of solving problems on their own without the need to rely upon a male savior, thank you very much. I know that some of the later 'princess' films have changed that process slightly, but the marketing of the merchandise certainly has not. (Nota bene: I have not seen the Princess and the Frog.) Mulan - good role model. Sleeping Beauty - Not so much. Cinderella? No. The Little Mermaid? You do not need to sacrifice the essentials of what makes you who you are in order to please a man who has no idea that you exist. Take the Princess ideal and put it out of its misery. Little girls are already bombarded with messages that limit them enough as it is. (Walk into a toy store - it's like they've color coded all the toys. Girls know that its socially acceptable to play with it because its pink.) Throw it back to the bad old days, and lets get some better material out of Disney for little girls and boys. |
Can't they like both?
*looks over at daughters collection of Princesses, Bey Blade, Pokemon, Bakugan, Naruto and Bleach DVD*
Watching Snow White doesn't mean "girls should be saved"
Watching Snow White means, "it's a fun film"
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Alright...
Does someone have a problem with Princesses?
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Does someone have a problem with Princesses?
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When I was a little girl, I happily made pretty princess crowns out of yellow and pink construction paper for my friends who wanted them.
But the one I made for myself was always bigger and more fancy than theirs. When they asked me why I got the more fancy crown, my reply was, "you wanted to be princesses... that makes ME the QUEEN."
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I think Tangled is more about showing Pixar's influence on Disney Animation rather than the Princess Genre being dead. John Lasseter is now the chief creative officer at Disney, I think this movie is the first "Disney Animated" movie created under his helm. I'm not worried about the effects of Pixar on Disney. I welcome it, and I look forward to Tangled. It think its going to be great.
I don't think its anti-princess, nor is it more about the dashing thief. Its only a trailer, and there are a LOT of shots of the "Princess" in it. Also there is a hint at her song being about watching the world go by outside her window, and wanting to be apart of "That world." (very much in tune with Ariel and a classic Princess theme) .
I think princesses are alive and well and making a lot of money for Disney and they would be fools to stop making them. Little girls love the Princesses. They love dressing up as them, they love watching the movies, they love meeting them at the parks. Some go to the parks just to dress up and see their fav princess.
Just look at this new article from Disney blog...
"Get ‘Tangled’ Up at the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique"
That LA times article is just sad, and would be a big mistake if they abandon the genre totally.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The Princess and the Frog was OK but not great. Most of the songs were OK but the production numbers somewhat lacking. It's biggest drawback was the appearance of "hey we need a black princess to market, quick find a story" feel to it.
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That was exactly the problem I had with it. The whole movie had the stink of PC hanging around it. I tried watching it with my daughter (who thought it was "ok", not her favorite), but just could not like it.
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/this|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So Disney laid an egg last time out and figures making a big deal out of this will generate some buzz for their current picture while simultaneously setting the stage for a "triumphant return" to the Princess Genre at some future date.
Zzzzzzz. |
I'll give it 3 to 5 years before they "reboot" the whole princess thing.
Over the years Disney has been the masters of declaring things "gone forever" then bringing them back at a later date.
This'll be no different...
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And reading Twilight means that it's just a fun romance book? It's not teaching impressionable girls poor lessons about love and relationships?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
o.O
Can't they like both? *looks over at daughters collection of Princesses, Bey Blade, Pokemon, Bakugan, Naruto and Bleach DVD* Watching Snow White doesn't mean "girls should be saved" Watching Snow White means, "it's a fun film" |
I'm certainly not saying that my daughter will never, ever get to watch anything with those sorts of messages. Snow White is an amazing piece of animation, and has fun songs to boot. Sleeping Beauty has a great dragon, et cetera. But, I have to counterbalance it with lessons about why the protagonists of those stories fail as role models - good things don't just come to you because you're pretty, you have to work for them, you can be a success on your own without passively waiting for a prince/fairy godmother, and so on.
Mulan is not bad, because she sees a problem and decides to go out and do something about it because it is the right thing to do. That's a good lesson that I can just reinforce, rather than critique. I'm looking forward to watching Macross with her, because the female lead is a successful and competent military officer... before we even meet her!
Do I have a problem with princesses? Yeah, I do. But it's not a problem specifically with princesses, but with gendered media in general and the societal imposition of sex roles. I'm serious, go look at the difference between boy toys and girl toys in a toy store. Or, you can read things like this story to get an inkling of why I have a problem with this.
Let the princess genre die.
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I find it interesting that you bring up Sleeping Beauty when I've actually never considered the princess as the protagonist of that story. Even the Prince took a relative back seat. The main conflict was between the three fairy godmothers and Malificent.|
Originally Posted by Smersh
Sleeping Beauty has a great dragon, et cetera. But, I have to counterbalance it with lessons about why the protagonists of those stories fail as role models
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So really, not only were most of the main characters female, but three of them were older and did not fill the movie requirements for stereotypical beauty. It just seemed to be that the fairy/Malificent conflict was the movie they wanted to show, but they stuck in the Prince and Princess as facades so that it appealed to marketing.
Maybe that's just me though.
As for the "princess genre", I see no reason for it to die, and doubt it could even if they wanted it to. Do I get nauseous looking at the ultra pink "Disney Princess" products that line store shelves?
Sure. But I get much the same feeling looking at commercials and adds for games like Modern Warfare that are designed to appeal to the frat-boy demographic.
I'd much rather see the Princess genre evolve rather than disappear. Belle, Mulan, the Princess-and-the-Frog chick.... these are examples that a "princess" can still be a strong and interesting female character.
Too often advocates for "strong female leads" tend to associate anything stereotypically female with being weak. Maybe a female protagonist enjoys dressing in pink and giving tea parties. That doesn't automatically make her a bad character or a "bad role model".
So don't just axe the princess line. Put in the effort to keep improving it as they have been. Maybe it's not my preferred genre, but neither was Buffy. Doesn't mean I'd wish for it to disappear.
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But the current vampire genre is crappy. Vamps are not teen angst vegetarians who don't want to hurt you, THEY'RE BLOOD SUCKING DEMONS LOOKING TO KILL ANYTHING THAT GETS IN THIER WAY DAMNIT!
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Originally Posted by Teldon
Cant say I am sorry that the princess genre is going away. Wish the vampire genre would go back to the crypt for a decade or two.
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Not going to happen. Disney hasn't made a new movie in years. Same scripts they just change the names - kinda like madlibs. Heck they recycle animations http://www.koreus.com/video/disney-ressemblance.html
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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
I think your not having seen Princess and the Frog address a lot of this. The Princess Tiana more than not is a walking, talking extended apology for the past princesses. She's the anti-princess in many regards.
Exhibit A is her theme song: Almost there. Watch that video, drink in its visuals, and listen to its lyrics. She's pretty dang awesome. In fact, Tiana's an awesome character. The whole cast of Princess and the Frog was truly inspired, even if I personally feel the movie overall was not. Side Note: If Dr. Felicier isn't elevated to a Triple A villain in the Disney-verse, I will riot. All by myself. Best villain they've ever written. |
Well put, MT; in particular, Dr. F was definitely one of the best, evillest, scariest villains they've put together.
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Jafar from Aladdin was darn good too. |
Originally Posted by galadiman
Well put, MT; in particular, Dr. F was definitely one of the best, evillest, scariest villains they've put together.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Creating a feminine ideal that is passive and waits for the perfect prince to come along is an idea I'm not particularly keen on selling to my daughter. Women are more than capable of solving problems on their own without the need to rely upon a male savior, thank you very much.
I know that some of the later 'princess' films have changed that process slightly, but the marketing of the merchandise certainly has not. (Nota bene: I have not seen the Princess and the Frog.) Mulan - good role model. Sleeping Beauty - Not so much. Cinderella? No. The Little Mermaid? You do not need to sacrifice the essentials of what makes you who you are in order to please a man who has no idea that you exist.
Take the Princess ideal and put it out of its misery. Little girls are already bombarded with messages that limit them enough as it is. (Walk into a toy store - it's like they've color coded all the toys. Girls know that its socially acceptable to play with it because its pink.) Throw it back to the bad old days, and lets get some better material out of Disney for little girls and boys.
Exhibit A is her theme song: Almost there. Watch that video, drink in its visuals, and listen to its lyrics. She's pretty dang awesome.
In fact, Tiana's an awesome character. The whole cast of Princess and the Frog was truly inspired, even if I personally feel the movie overall was not.
Side Note: If Dr. Felicier isn't elevated to a Triple A villain in the Disney-verse, I will riot. All by myself.
Best villain they've ever written.