Are you kidding me? With zombie invasions, Rikti invasions, battles breaking out in the street, buildings exploding, and all of the other various mayhem and insanity that occurs, would you want a car in that city? Is it any wonder that most of the cars that you do see look like they were built back when there was a USSR? (And that they probably came from some barely industrial country that was part it?)
Remember, it's a different universe. Not everything is like it is here. I think that pretty much everyone takes the train (which is probably hardened and battle-shielded) wherever they have to go, or holes up inside. At one point, there probably were lots of cars, as evidenced by the number of roads and the layout of Skyway City, but that time is probably long past.
As for the people wandering around Portal Corp... Aren't they mostly possessed?
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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From a technical point of view, tracking even MORE moving objects means sending more data to the user's PC to keep things synced up-- the more that's tracked... and the more frequently they can change, the more bandwidth spent... and the sooner you hit bottlenecks in performance. You also have an engine that's designed to handle only X number of moveable objects at a time. Things that aren't shared/tracked, like leaves and ammo brass, don't count to that limit, but something that must be shared- like the locations of cars moving on the street- would. Getting anywhere near real-city traffic levels|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
no this is not a bug report, but while running around the Portal Corp I noticed hundreds of people waling around and a parking lot that was mostly empty... same can be said for the roads in general, this is a busy city, there should be cars everywhere! the lack of cars in the Rogue Islands makes perfect sense, but not in Paragon City!
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From a gameplay point of view, the roads represent a large chunk of the landscape available for fighting... filling them with moveable objects takes away a lot of the cityscape for battle.
From a lore point of view, the roads were once very crowded, but the war wall gates and security checkpoints have significantly restricted motorized traffic- now only necessary deliveries or vehicles on official business really use the streets.
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I can understand that, but I would thing a solid moving object would take up less resources that an animated person. and for that matter, they don't have to be moving, they can fill parking lots with them and have them parked on the side of the roads.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
From a technical point of view, tracking even MORE moving objects means sending more data to the user's PC to keep things synced up-- the more that's tracked... and the more frequently they can change, the more bandwidth spent... and the sooner you hit bottlenecks in performance. You also have an engine that's designed to handle only X number of moveable objects at a time. Things that aren't shared/tracked, like leaves and ammo brass, don't count to that limit, but something that must be shared- like the locations of cars moving on the street- would. Getting anywhere near real-city traffic levels
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as for the design of the cars.. they are freaking awesome
what I want to know is why is it when I'm inside a building like the vault there seems to be constant car horning going on in there - maybe this is where all the cars have gone... inside buildings to honk incessantly
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
Its because the only people left who drive cars in Paragon are homicidal maniacs! I can't even count the number of times a car has slammed into me, despite the fact that they're only doing 10 or 15 MPH and had plenty of room, and time, to change lanes!
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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Cars hate capes.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
Its because the only people left who drive cars in Paragon are homicidal maniacs! I can't even count the number of times a car has slammed into me, despite the fact that they're only doing 10 or 15 MPH and had plenty of room, and time, to change lanes!
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Paragon City has a huge number of apartment buildings, some built directly adjacent to Portal Corp.'s parking lot. The city has a lot of high density housing. There no single-family dwellings, except perhaps in Croatoa.|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
no this is not a bug report, but while running around the Portal Corp I noticed hundreds of people waling around and a parking lot that was mostly empty... same can be said for the roads in general, this is a busy city, there should be cars everywhere! the lack of cars in the Rogue Islands makes perfect sense, but not in Paragon City!
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In that way, it's like New York City. Most people in Manhattan don't have cars, don't need them and don't want them. They apparently live near they work, and the transit system is totally fabulous! The trains come once every 10 or 20 seconds and you get to your destination in less than a minute no matter how far away it is.
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If New York had the same traffic density as Paragon City, I assure you that most people would buy cars. Despite its mass transit and all that, NYC still manages to keep its streets filled with vehicles.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
Most people in Manhattan don't have cars, don't need them and don't want them.
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The cars are massing out in the desert, waiting for their leader to say...
LET'S GO!
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some people do apparently...|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Most people in Manhattan don't have cars
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* In a city where Hellions and Skulls like blowing cars up despite the sure knowledge it will kill them... yeah, let's just say Insurance premiums are a bit steep.
* Every car you DO see driving around is actually being driven by a Clockwork taking it to a warehouse to be disassembled into parts.
* Despite repeated failures he hasn't given up on his dream of becoming a Freaktaur... Cartaur... whatever...
* The speed limits in Paragon are so outrageously low it's almost faster to walk... especially if seeing a villain can goose you into running in the right direction.
* Considering how people drive in Paragon City I wouldn't be surprised to find out 90% of the driving population have had their licenses revoked.
* Kinda silly to drive a car when (apparently) every civillian in the city has Super Jump as an inherent.
* Under continuous and aggressive lobbying by the Devouring Earth, the Paragon City council has enacted an overwhelming amount of "Going Green" legistlation.
* Have you ever seen a Volvo hit a Super Speedster head on? Not a pretty sight.
* It's embarassing to watch a pedestrian who just got spooked by a Hellion pass you.
(BAD PUN ALERT!! If you have any Pun Allergies you should immediately cease reading and go about your business. BAD PUN ALERT!! You have been warned.)
* Ever since the introduction of side switching in Going Rogue all the cars in Paragon have been Out of Alignment.
My mind wanders so often you've probably seen its picture on milk cartons. - Me... the first person version of the third person Steelclaw
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We're talking about a different sort of bottleneck. Tracking objects' coordinates and facing frequent enough to keep everyone in sync is more a communication bottlenext, less a rendering one. There's just a whole lot of data to share if everything needed updates frequently. |
Originally Posted by nytflyr
I can understand that, but I would thing a solid moving object would take up less resources that an animated person. and for that matter, they don't have to be moving, they can fill parking lots with them and have them parked on the side of the roads.
as for the design of the cars.. they are freaking awesome |
There are shortcuts that are already in use to keep what we already have in track, but the more variations you add, the more these shortcuts start reaching their limits.
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And except for the Taxi's and city vehicles 99% of all those drivers live outside the city and are driving in to work in the city.|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
some people do apparently...
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Paragon City solved it's commuter/traffic problem by building huge parking lots outside the cities War Walls and making people take the trains in from those points.
You're not getting more cars. Deal with it.
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so paragon city has no visitors? loading up the streets with taxis would make sense as well...|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And except for the Taxi's and city vehicles 99% of all those drivers live outside the city and are driving in to work in the city.
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You're not getting more cars. Deal with it.
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No Paragon City doesn't let every Tom, Dick, or Harry just drive into the city which is plainly evident from the traffic that doesn't exist. It's a walled off city. The only way to get thru the War Walls is by train or boat. The city doesn't even have an airport.|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
so paragon city has no visitors? loading up the streets with taxis would make sense as well...
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| nice... |
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Paragon City solved it's commuter/traffic problem by building huge parking lots outside the cities War Walls and making people take the trains in from those points.
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We go through this almost every week, nytflyr... where did you last put the cars? What were you doing when you had the cars? Did you leave the cars in Europe?
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You could resolve that by making the cars client side.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
From a technical point of view, tracking even MORE moving objects means sending more data to the user's PC to keep things synced up-- the more that's tracked... and the more frequently they can change, the more bandwidth spent... and the sooner you hit bottlenecks in performance. You also have an engine that's designed to handle only X number of moveable objects at a time. Things that aren't shared/tracked, like leaves and ammo brass, don't count to that limit, but something that must be shared- like the locations of cars moving on the street- would. Getting anywhere near real-city traffic levels
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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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I think the reason why there's such light traffic in Paragon City can be best explained by the description I came up with when I was making my SD/WM tank about a year ago...|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
no this is not a bug report, but while running around the Portal Corp I noticed hundreds of people waling around and a parking lot that was mostly empty... same can be said for the roads in general, this is a busy city, there should be cars everywhere! the lack of cars in the Rogue Islands makes perfect sense, but not in Paragon City!
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Head-on Collision Description: Mike Williams was once a taxi cab who worked out of the Bronx. In fact, Mike was one of the best cabbies who drove the streets of the New York borough. His reputation was so good, he was headhunted by the Paragon City Taxi Cab Union, Local 221. They offered him a great deal with good pay and benefits; so Mike drove his hack from the Bronx to Paragon City, Rhode Island. Once in Paragon City, Mike learned just why good cabbies were in such high demand there. Between the crazy traffic patterns, the people running out into the street at any given time, the spandex crowd starting fights in the middle of the road for no apparent reason, people contantly trying to stiff you on there fares, and lets not forget the Vahzilok vomit... ...you can never forget the Vahzilok vomit. So, after being stiffed his fare by some big black guy wearing metal gloves who jumped out of his cab because of some 'emergency'; Mike had enough and decided to take matters into his own hands. |
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Correct, but then this would create "shared experience" issues. *I* may see a clearing in the traffic, while others see me run right into where there's a car, for example.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You could resolve that by making the cars client side.
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The middle ground is to define predefined paths-- "tracks" that the models follow at a preset speed. Then you only need to send an update when the model started on the path and possibly when it hits certain waypoints, to keep things in sync.
They already do that to get as far as they do, though-- ever wonder why an NPC pushes you out of the way?
Actually, they're a BIT more complex, I think. They DO respond when they encounter an NPC (that panic run) so at that point they seem to go from minimal-update "walking paths" to probably more update-intensive "panic run" patterns of some sort. Kinda like how cars swerve at/away from you.
Point is that they're already doing some pretty heavy tricks to keep the updates minimal while making the city as lively as possible. I wouldn't mind seeing more of this flavor, but I can see how the technical limitations can tally up fast.
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However, because the cars have an actual impact on your character (they push you around) if the cars were handled client-side people would be standing in the middle of the road and shoved around by nothing on other peoples' screens. An interesting effect, to be sure, but it would probably look rather silly.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You could resolve that by making the cars client side.
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Of course, if the cars were made so they simply pass through characters, this wouldn't be a problem, but we've been asking for peds and cars which don't push us around for years, and it doesn't seem like we'll be getting it any time soon.
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
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it the condescending nature of your "point" I was pointing out. sorry you don't like being called on it.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Selective editing of posts won't win your argument.
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If we get speeding cars and all that, I want my hero to have the right to chase down speeders and serve them tickets.
"HEY YOU! YOU RAN THAT STOP SIGN!"
*hero plants herself in the middle of the street and nails the car with Power Thrust, sending the car skidding back about a hundred feet*
"YEAH, THAT ONE THAT'S RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR DENTED FENDER!"
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
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I saw nothing condescending in his post you responded to. Often people inject their own personality traits when reading the posts of others because text has no "tone" or body language to accompany it except for smileys.|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
it the condescending nature of your "point" I was pointing out. sorry you don't like being called on it.
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If I may suggest to you in the future when someone posts a
at the end of a comment you may want to observe they aren't being mean in the text that comes before it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I did, so live with it (A smiley doesn't erase the snark)
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I saw nothing condescending in his post you responded to. Often people inject their own personality traits when reading the posts of others because text has no "tone" or body language to accompany it except for smileys.
If I may suggest to you in the future when someone posts a at the end of a comment you may want to observe they aren't being mean in the text that comes before it. |
no this is not a bug report, but while running around the Portal Corp I noticed hundreds of people waling around and a parking lot that was mostly empty... same can be said for the roads in general, this is a busy city, there should be cars everywhere! the lack of cars in the Rogue Islands makes perfect sense, but not in Paragon City!