Slotting Siphon Life as an attack, and using it as such, would increase your DPS. That has been gone over. Yes, Smite works, but Siphon Life would be better. Using a combo of Hami-Os would mean that you could use it as an attack, and STILL get healing to 96% or so, meaning that you're not losing out on the heal when you need it.
So, if you're talking about optimizing attack chains, using a high recharge build, then Siphon Life should be used as an attack.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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My SL is not slotted as an attack though. It is slotted as a heal, so when I do neeed it as a heal it actually keeps me alive. And gives me a recharge bonus. Again, i know this is not primarily optimal, i went at it sideways. The theory being, again, when I need it as a heal it works great. Also, because of the way my build works, when I need it as a heal (and it is slotted as one) the high recharge on the build brings this sucker back up fast. Between that and Dull pain being Perma the only thing that can really put me down fast is the mob from the LRSF when not pulled properly. Most other things I can stand and fight, (or at least stand and heal lol)
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Slotting Siphon Life as an attack, and using it as such, would increase your DPS. That has been gone over. Yes, Smite works, but Siphon Life would be better. Using a combo of Hami-Os would mean that you could use it as an attack, and STILL get healing to 96% or so, meaning that you're not losing out on the heal when you need it.
So, if you're talking about optimizing attack chains, using a high recharge build, then Siphon Life should be used as an attack. |
why does he think the answers will change if he posts in a different forum?
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As other posters have said, your optimal attack chain is not going to be optimal until you use Siphon Life as an attack. Slot it with 4 pieces of a melee set and 2 pieces of an accurate healing set. Focus on Damage, Accuracy, Recharge, and Healing.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My SL is not slotted as an attack though. It is slotted as a heal, so when I do neeed it as a heal it actually keeps me alive. And gives me a recharge bonus. Again, i know this is not primarily optimal, i went at it sideways. The theory being, again, when I need it as a heal it works great. Also, because of the way my build works, when I need it as a heal (and it is slotted as one) the high recharge on the build brings this sucker back up fast. Between that and Dull pain being Perma the only thing that can really put me down fast is the mob from the LRSF when not pulled properly. Most other things I can stand and fight, (or at least stand and heal lol)
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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You can slot and use Siphon Life however you want. However that does not change the fact that if your goal is to maximize damage (which was the question you asked) Siphon Life should be slotted and used as an attack.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My SL is not slotted as an attack though. It is slotted as a heal, so when I do neeed it as a heal it actually keeps me alive. And gives me a recharge bonus. Again, i know this is not primarily optimal, i went at it sideways. The theory being, again, when I need it as a heal it works great.
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Even without slotting it for healing using it regularly should provide you with sufficient healing or alternatively several people have commented (in this thread and your other two) on how to slot it for damage and healing. As for the recharge bonus Crushing Impact is a damage set with a recharge bonus.
You are looking at SL wrong. It's not a heal. It's an attack that happens to heal. The benefits of using it as an attack outweigh the benefits of using it as a heal. If you are looking for optimal, which you said you are, then you MUST use SL and slot SL like an attack. There is really no other way around it.
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Ah, we are coming at this from different angles as usual. Probably my fault for not being clear. I will not now, nor ever, be slotting siphon life for damage. Not on this character. It will have Panacea being dropped into it in a couple weeks. (set of 5) It is my panic button. My strategy with this power has always been extremely straightforward. Slot to maximize healing. When my character starts to take damage I hit this power once. When my character start to take a ton of damage I hit Dull Pain, and start spamming Siphon life. There is a ton of global recharge on this guy. 117.5% right now. Should be 125% + Hasten in 2 weeks. So when i say spamming, I am not kidding. This will keep me up, unless getting pounded by BABs and POSI and Friends. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
You can slot and use Siphon Life however you want. However that does not change the fact that if your goal is to maximize damage (which was the question you asked) Siphon Life should be slotted and used as an attack.
Even without slotting it for healing using it regularly should provide you with sufficient healing or alternatively several people have commented (in this thread and your other two) on how to slot it for damage and healing. As for the recharge bonus Crushing Impact is a damage set with a recharge bonus. |
Tons of recharge, right. So, Instead of using Siphon Life as an attack, I use my 5 Purpled Attack powers. Gloom and Dark Obliteration, for range and theme. Midnight Grasp, for fun and profit. And Shadow Maul and Smite depending on single or multiple targets. These attacks are all 6 slotted purpled, all fun, and almost always up. They make an okay attack chain, and feel lethal, or so I think.
Siphon Life is a big part of many of the Dark Melee attack chains, I know. But seriously, it is not Knockout Blow. I have played it a number of times from 1-50. It is a good attack, yes. I tend to stay off it at low levels unless I have a ton of blues on hand though. At this point, I prefer to just save it for the use that I have delegated it to.
My question is whether a suitable attack chain can be made from the few ragged powers I have left, and if made, how they compare with the classic Dark Melee attack chain.
As part of your top attack chain I think of Siphon Life as an attack and regen more than a heal since it will give a steady amount of HP at regular intervals. You can always use it early if you need an extra heal.
If you want to optimize SL, then the only way to slot it is with 3 Golgi Exposure and 3 Nucleolus Exposure. That will make your Damage, Accuracy, Heal, and End Discount 94.93%
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There's your answer.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I have gotten quite the earful about how not using Siphon life is ruining my attack chain.
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What you are describing doesn't sound so much of an "attack chain" but more, "I'm just going to use what attacks I have up." Getting down a solid, gapless attack chain will be much, much more efficient and damaging than what you're doing.
The attacks you use may be damaging, but you have to consider time of animation and Arcanatime when talking about optimal attack chains. There is actual hard evidence about SL needing to be included in your attack chain as an attack and not a heal.
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At this point i think its simply best to ignore him. He actually thinks that slotting a full set of purples is the best way to go. Even though just a few seconds in mids will show that insead of slotting that last full purple going with a non purple dmg/rech or a dmg proc will give you better DPS.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
why does he think the answers will change if he posts in a different forum?
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Was that trolling?
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
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Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
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I understand it will not be "optimal" I gave up that point in the OP. Does anyone know how far (approximately?) I am off optimal? I mean seriously, this is not Knockout Blow i am throwing out here.
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Originally Posted by jshmoe
There's your answer.
What you are describing doesn't sound so much of an "attack chain" but more, "I'm just going to use what attacks I have up." Getting down a solid, gapless attack chain will be much, much more efficient and damaging than what you're doing. The attacks you use may be damaging, but you have to consider time of animation and Arcanatime when talking about optimal attack chains. There is actual hard evidence about SL needing to be included in your attack chain as an attack and not a heal. |
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You didn't know? If you ain't purpling, then you ain't trying!
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
At this point i think its simply best to ignore him. He actually thinks that slotting a full set of purples is the best way to go. Even though just a few seconds in mids will show that insead of slotting that last full purple going with a non purple dmg/rech or a dmg proc will give you better DPS.
Was that trolling? |
My Dark Obliteration does knockdown. It's fun. You should try fun sometimes. I like special effects. You do not have to use them, I like. Also, having a lot of toxic res is just fun as well.
Maybe i wasnt clear i ment dont slot the dmg purple for example. Hecatomb: Damage (Superior). It's always the other 5 you slot.
Now this is a question i have, what is it you are fighting that has a lot of toxic? All i can think of are the arachnoids and they arent all that common in mishs and stuff. I think there is a snake thing out there too.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My Dark Obliteration does knockdown. It's fun. You should try fun sometimes. I like special effects. You do not have to use them, I like. Also, having a lot of toxic res is just fun as well.
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Nobody is telling you to not use that power, or even take away any of your fun. I do the same thing. There are just some powers that I just like to use because, well, I wanna! But a great benefit to having that optimal chain is when you have those moments you need to hunker down and wail on an AV, EB, or anything that you need some serious single target damage.
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In your above post you said to use a non-purple damage Proc, instead of the purple +dam%, what I/O specifically are you referring to?
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Originally Posted by jshmoe
Nobody is telling you to not use that power, or even take away any of your fun. I do the same thing. There are just some powers that I just like to use because, well, I wanna! But a great benefit to having that optimal chain is when you have those moments you need to hunker down and wail on an AV, EB, or anything that you need some serious single target damage.
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I said nothing of the sort.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
In your above post you said to use a non-purple damage Proc, instead of the purple +dam%, what I/O specifically are you referring to?
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The PURE damage purple IO (as in the Damage ONLY) adds a VERY small amount of actual damage to your powers. This is due to ED, and that fact that 1 (ONE) IO adds 52%. So without that IO, your at 89.92% damage enhancements, with that IOs your at 101.86% damage enhancemenst, even though that 1 IO is adding 52%.. its hitting ED so hard that only about 15% of it is being used. If you add any form of damage proc, then your actual DPS will go up.
Thats what we are telling you. Here, let me spell it out again.
5 slotted hecatomb without the damage proc but with everything else in smite is 124.9 damage.
5 slotted hecatomb without the PURE damage IO, but adding in the damage PROC is 153.66 damage.
5 slotted hecatomb without the Dam/rech IO, but with the Pure damage IO and the PROC is 157.5 damage
6 slotted hecatomb with everything is only 160.24 damage.
Notice the differences?
6 slotting purples, is just not worth it due to the pretty lame 6th set bonus, and ED pretty much limiting what is actually benefitting you. This is why most people skip the PURE enhancement (be it damage, or hold, or whatever), as it doesnt add much.
I've noticed that if i skip the dam/rech IO and have an already pretty high global recharge bonus, my damage goes up, and i don't notice the decrease in recharge due to most of the recharge enhancement value being eaten up from diminishing returns.
6 slotting purples, is just not worth it due to the pretty lame 6th set bonus, and ED pretty much limiting what is actually benefitting you. This is why most people skip the PURE enhancement (be it damage, or hold, or whatever), as it doesnt add much.
I've noticed that if i skip the dam/rech IO and have an already pretty high global recharge bonus, my damage goes up, and i don't notice the decrease in recharge due to most of the recharge enhancement value being eaten up from diminishing returns.
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Difference noted. 35 points extra damage, or roughly 29%. thanks. Plus the toxic resistance.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
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5 slotted hecatomb without the damage proc but with everything else in smite is 124.9 damage. 6 slotted hecatomb with everything is only 160.24 damage. Notice the differences? |
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Wow!|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Difference noted. 35 points extra damage, or roughly 29%. thanks. Plus the toxic resistance.
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Ain't that some ****?
you go from this:
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5 slotted hecatomb without the damage proc but with everything else in smite is 124.9 damage. 5 slotted hecatomb without the PURE damage IO, but adding in the damage PROC is 153.66 damage. 5 slotted hecatomb without the Dam/rech IO, but with the Pure damage IO and the PROC is 157.5 damage 6 slotted hecatomb with everything is only 160.24 damage. |
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5 slotted hecatomb without the damage proc but with everything else in smite is 124.9 damage. 6 slotted hecatomb with everything is only 160.24 damage. Notice the differences? |
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Difference noted. 35 points extra damage, or roughly 29%. thanks. Plus the toxic resistance.
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You just really don't want any help do you?
I know my hands are washed
This entire post, which seems to be in threat of being hijacked by a build discussion, is really, really straightforward. And i do want help on it.
There is a hypothetical perfect Dark Melee attack chain. It is like Smite/Siphon Life/Smite/Midnight Grasp or something.
I do not use this attack chain. I leave out Siphon life, and add in Gloom and Dark Obliteration (for groups), and Shadow Maul (for groups).
the question is, does anyone know, on a high recharge build, 117-200% recharge, whether the extra damage available from Midnight Grasp and Gloom coming up often mitigates the removal of Siphon Life. This is the entire question posed by this post. Any help in getting an answer there is much appreciated. Any efforts to explain why I build wrong, not so much.
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Most of the sets have Toxic resistance as their last bonus which is of very limited utility. On the other hand Apocalypse and Coercive Persuasion both have defense bonuses in their 6th slot which (depending on the rest of your build) could be very useful. Soulbound Allegiance also has a defense bonus but since it lacks the recharge bonus and the rest of the bonuses are weak I can't see much need to 6-slto it.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
6 slotting purples, is just not worth it due to the pretty lame 6th set bonus, and ED pretty much limiting what is actually benefitting you. This is why most people skip the PURE enhancement (be it damage, or hold, or whatever), as it doesnt add much.
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Okay. I have a DM/Invul that uses a ton of recharge. I am not using the classic DM attack chain. I rely heavily on Gloom and Dark obliteration from Soul Mastery. They are both purpled, and both up a lot. (ranged doesnt hurt either) I also use Smite as a finishing/placeholder attack (again purpled), Shadow Maul if it looks like I can get 2 or more (also purp'd), and of course Midnight Grasp, (purpd, although with rooting grasp, so not optimally enhanced)
I only use Siphon Life when down hit points-maybe once every 30 seconds in medium fighting, or every 15 in heavy mobs. Started as an early habit because at low levels the sucker eats end. Currently my recharge is around 117%, will respec into Hasten after i19 and get more recharge.
I have gotten quite the earful about how not using Siphon life is ruining my attack chain. I am throwing out tons of damage as is (especially since Soul Drain is tantalizingly close to perma)
Any opinions from fellow Brutes on attack chains here?