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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My SL is not slotted as an attack though. It is slotted as a heal
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I will not now, nor ever, be slotting siphon life for damage.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Midnight Grasp is six slotted with Gravitational Anchor.
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One that just keeps on giving.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Is this some kind of sick joke?
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Blue, you'll remember my posts to you when you first posted up your build many moons ago. Same points people are making here. I mean, if you're honestly going for max +recharge, then go for it. If this build works for you, go for it. But if you're going to come in and ask questions with a build that's built sideways for it's intended purpose you're going to get a lot of flak.
Remember: billions of inf's worth of purple sets do not always a godlike toon make.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I respect your opinion Nalrok. Quite a few of my new fans here are fresh off a 700 post beat down of me in the market forum. And they really hate me for poking at their sacred cow.
But you are quite correct. You pointed out many of these flaws some time ago. I am having fun with the build. I will continue on my quest.
I posted this line of question on Smite Life specifically, and my build in the other post, to get this off the market forum and into the Brute forum.
Chasing ST DPS on this build is as silly to me as chasing high global recharge seems to be to these guys. I have a certain way of running this guy, and this is it. From what I have heard Dark Melee has some of the highest ST DPS in the game for Scrap/Brute. If I am at 80% of that, that is not bad. It is not as straightforward as that, due to Soul Drain, etc.
Nor is it accounting for the higher end cost of your builds attacks. having to use shadow maul to suppliment your attacks will have a massive impact on your endurance. it may be sustainable from a recharge aspect, but i seriously doubt you'll be able to sustain it from an endurance aspect.
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Quoted myself to add in the endurance sustainable of the builds.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
the best brute attack chain goes as follows
MG->Smite->SL->Gloom->smite which the build i made you can do, seemlessly this chain, using my build does about 240.43+157.5+181.88+193.11+157.5 =930.42 damage the chain takes 8.052 seconds to animate, so thats 115.55DPS burning 32.912 endurance in that time, so about 4.087 EPS. My build has a +end proc in SL, which rough math says its .667 EPS gain on average (20% chance, every time it hits, which is 3 seconds, for 10 endurance) and the +end proc in stamina, which is .2EPS, so thats .867 EPS from procs) plus the 1.898EPS gain from recovery your sitting on 2.765EPS gain. 4.087EPS - 2.765 EPS = 1.322EPS lose, so assuming a full endurance bar it'll take you about 83.2 seconds at full tilt to blow your endurance. Dark consumption is up every 50.52 seconds, so your completely sustainable with my build. The only chain your build that sustainable, is MG-Smite-gloom-Shadow maul-smite which does 127.2+152.25+191.23+226.3+152.25 =848.23 damage, in the 9.24 seconds, so that's 91.91DPS which burns 33.71endurance, or about 3.648EPS. You don't have any +end procs, in your build, so you have just to rely on your natural recovery, minus your toggles, which is 1.838, so 3.648EPS - 1.838EPS = 1.81EPS which at full tilt means you'll burn your full end bar in about 60.77 seconds. Dark consumption in your build recharges in 62.88 seconds, so you will not be sustainable. |
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Arbegla, did I pay you to post this? Seriously, thank you. |
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Nor is it accounting for the higher end cost of your builds attacks. having to use shadow maul to suppliment your attacks will have a massive impact on your endurance. it may be sustainable from a recharge aspect, but i seriously doubt you'll be able to sustain it from an endurance aspect.
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Dark Consumption: The dark power of the Netherworld allows you to tap the essence of your foe's soul and transfer it to yourself. This will drain the Hit Points of your enemy and add to your Endurance.
With a ton of Global Recharge on the build this pops up very fast. It is already more than enough with 117.5% recharge, even just one slotting Fitness:Endurance.
This is yet another reason I am building the way I am. And Soul Drain, and Dull pain, and AoEs, and and and
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Relook at the numbers that i just posted, Dark consumption won't be enough to save you. Your build has it recharging in about 62 seconds, mine (with hasten) hits about 50 seconds. Mine would work, yours not so much with your current end drain.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Arbegla, did I pay you to post this? Seriously, thank you.
Dark Consumption: The dark power of the Netherworld allows you to tap the essence of your foe's soul and transfer it to yourself. This will drain the Hit Points of your enemy and add to your Endurance. With a ton of Global Recharge on the build this pops up very fast. It is already more than enough with 117.5% recharge, even just one slotting Fitness:Endurance. This is yet another reason I am building the way I am. And Soul Drain, and Dull pain, and AoEs, and and and |
I just want to say that Siphon Life could be the Top 3 best Melee attack in terms of damage and utility. It has a decent heal at 10% (which can be enhanced!), only 10s recharge, decent damage, 2s activation is a tiny bit on the long side but it also debuffs Tohit!!! I mean with everything adding up, who wants to skip Siphon Life??
On the side note, I made a Dark/Energy Aura (my current favorite "Stalker" by the way) and I put 3 proc damage in Smite and Shadow Punch (chance for negative, lethal and psionic). It feels like having Critical mechanism when they proc and I like having some burst damage when my fury is low. I am lvl 34 atm. I figure I'll let Fury handle my +damage and rely on procs to score big hits.
The only attack I am not so sure is Twlight Grasp actually. I may end up taking Gloom instead.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Hey jshmoe |
Originally Posted by jshmoe
You are looking at SL wrong. It's not a heal. It's an attack that happens to heal. The benefits of using it as an attack outweigh the benefits of using it as a heal. If you are looking for optimal, which you said you are, then you MUST use SL and slot SL like an attack. There is really no other way around it.
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I realize this may be thread-jacking, but since I'm using a variant of your ultimate ***-kicking build, might I inquire what you are going to do with it for I19? Any plans on what will you use with the three extra powers/incarnate slots?Cheers,
IM
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Now, I'm wondering if maybe you'd be willing to try something on the Test server (so you don't alter your live build) for me. I know you have SL slotted as a healing utility, but I'm wondering if there can't be a compromise. I'd like to suggest the following slotting for Siphon Life, and do hope you give it a shot.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I respect your opinion Nalrok. Quite a few of my new fans here are fresh off a 700 post beat down of me in the market forum. And they really hate me for poking at their sacred cow.
But you are quite correct. You pointed out many of these flaws some time ago. I am having fun with the build. I will continue on my quest. I posted this line of question on Smite Life specifically, and my build in the other post, to get this off the market forum and into the Brute forum. Chasing ST DPS on this build is as silly to me as chasing high global recharge seems to be to these guys. I have a certain way of running this guy, and this is it. From what I have heard Dark Melee has some of the highest ST DPS in the game for Scrap/Brute. If I am at 80% of that, that is not bad. It is not as straightforward as that, due to Soul Drain, etc. |
Siphon Life
Touch of the Nictus-- Heal
Touch of the Nictus-- Heal/Recharge
Touch of the Nictus-- Acc/Heal
Touch of the Nictus-- Acc/End/Heal
Mako's Bite-- Dam/Rech
Mako's Bite-- Acc/Dam
You don't have to try it, but I encourage it. What I'm trying to do for you here is allow you to keep Siphon Life the healing utility you enjoy while also adding in accuracy (Doctored Wounds has no accuracy components) and damage, since Siphon Life can also hit like a truck.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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If it were just a matter of his wanting to play a sub-optimal build, then no one would care. Blue can play whatever he wants, and there really is no wrong answer when it comes to having fun in a game.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Blue, you'll remember my posts to you when you first posted up your build many moons ago. Same points people are making here. I mean, if you're honestly going for max +recharge, then go for it. If this build works for you, go for it. But if you're going to come in and ask questions with a build that's built sideways for it's intended purpose you're going to get a lot of flak.
Remember: billions of inf's worth of purple sets do not always a godlike toon make. |
The problem is that Blue wants to complain about the price of enhancements -- even going so far as to pose several insulting conspiracy theories about the evil capitalist pigs on the market. His build and those complaints are inter-related. He's basically gone out of his way to waste influence just so he can play the victim card.
It's as if you bought a Lamborghini just for scrap metal, and then tried to put the dealership out of business because you feel ripped off. Better yet, it's like excoriating every rich person for not spending all of their money to feed starving children in the third world, and then spending all of your income on caviar and champagne while your own children starve. I don't even think you can call Blue's peculiar brand of self-oblivious paranoia hypocritical, at this point. He's moved so far beyond ridiculous that it's almost sublime.
It's no wonder that Blue feels like he's oppressed if he truly believes that his build is reasonable. It's not reasonable, not in terms of cost, and certainly not in terms of cost efficiency. You suggest slotting Touch of the Nictus and Mako's Bite in Siphon Life, but that's crazy talk. Those sets aren't anywhere near expensive enough. Blue will jam six Panacea in there come hell or high water. And he will continue to insist that Panacea is the best set for him, no matter what anyone says, all the while no doubt cursing about how he's been oppressed by the Man.
This isn't, and never was, a discussion about attack chains, or even builds or the market Notice that even when Blue thanks people for information, he dismisses that information as irrelevant to him. Blue doesn't converse; he lectures. This thread is -- these threads are-- only valuable as an unintentionally hilarious sideshow.
And in that sense, it's an enormous success.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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You know, Blue has never really been outwardly aggressive to me, so rather than sit back and mock him (like you're doing) for something that's not even pertinent in this thread (I know about his market forum debacle) I try to suggest things that'll be to his benefit. If he really wants Panacea in there, then I'll suggest 4 slots of Panacea and 2 Mako's Bites. Notice how I adapt.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
If it were just a matter of his wanting to play a sub-optimal build, then no one would care. Blue can play whatever he wants, and there really is no wrong answer when it comes to having fun in a game.
The problem is that Blue wants to complain about the price of enhancements -- even going so far as to pose several insulting conspiracy theories about the evil capitalist pigs on the market. His build and those complaints are inter-related. He's basically gone out of his way to waste influence just so he can play the victim card. It's as if you bought a Lamborghini just for scrap metal, and then tried to put the dealership out of business because you feel ripped off. Better yet, it's like excoriating every rich person for not spending all of their money to feed starving children in the third world, and then spending all of your income on caviar and champagne while your own children starve. I don't even think you can call Blue's peculiar brand of self-oblivious paranoia hypocritical, at this point. He's moved so far beyond ridiculous that it's almost sublime. It's no wonder that Blue feels like he's oppressed if he truly believes that his build is reasonable. It's not reasonable, not in terms of cost, and certainly not in terms of cost efficiency. You suggest slotting Touch of the Nictus and Mako's Bite in Siphon Life, but that's crazy talk. Those sets aren't anywhere near expensive enough. Blue will jam six Panacea in there come hell or high water. And he will continue to insist that Panacea is the best set for him, no matter what anyone says, all the while no doubt cursing about how he's been oppressed by the Man. This isn't, and never was, a discussion about attack chains, or even builds or the market Notice that even when Blue thanks people for information, he dismisses that information as irrelevant to him. Blue doesn't converse; he lectures. This thread is -- these threads are-- only valuable as an unintentionally hilarious sideshow. And in that sense, it's an enormous success. |
You can sit there and rip on him all you want. I'm simply trying to offer him an alternative that keeps his love of SL's heal and adds in the benefit of it's Superior damage. And yes, he dismisses information after thanking for it. But for me, I already dismissed it when I said "if you're having fun, go for it." I never tell people what to do. I suggest.
Jeez.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I notice that he knows how to get lots of help whether he wants it or not.
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I have not complained once in this post about the cost of my enhancers. I did discuss market pricing in the market forum. When the vast majority of the 700 posts there kept shying away from the topic of market discussion to how I built my Brute I came back to Brute forum.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
The problem is that Blue wants to complain about the price of enhancements
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If you continue to harangue me like this I will complain to the forum moderator that you are engaging in annoying behavior.
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Any thoughts on my slotting suggestion?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I have not complained once in this post about the cost of my enhancers. I did discuss market pricing in the market forum. When the vast majority of the 700 posts there kept shying away from the topic of market discussion to how I built my Brute I came back to Brute forum.
If you continue to harangue me like this I will complain to the forum moderator that you are engaging in annoying behavior. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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And I was explaining why his build has been so heavily criticized. It ain't just because it's sub-optimal. It ain't just because it's expensive. It's because his build is willfully extravagant, even to its own detriment, and even in the face of Blue's loudly proclaimed financial victimhood. All of those things are inter-related. All of those things are pertinent. Why? Because Blue's playing a build that's causing him obvious pain, albeit indirectly. His specific question in this thread has been answered. The side issue of SL's slotting was addressed and summarily discarded on the first page, in fact.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You know, Blue has never really been outwardly aggressive to me, so rather than sit back and mock him (like you're doing) for something that's not even pertinent in this thread (I know about his market forum debacle) I try to suggest things that'll be to his benefit. If he really wants Panacea in there, then I'll suggest 4 slots of Panacea and 2 Mako's Bites. Notice how I adapt.
You can sit there and rip on him all you want. I'm simply trying to offer him an alternative that keeps his love of SL's heal and adds in the benefit of it's Superior damage. And yes, he dismisses information after thanking for it. But for me, I already dismissed it when I said "if you're having fun, go for it." I never tell people what to do. I suggest. Jeez. |
You don't think I've tried offering helpful alternatives to this lost cause? I have, several times. So have countless others. If you think you're automagically different, then more power to you. It's just barely possible that he might listen to you because you've defended him here. I'm sure your air of moral superiority will appeal.
But the implication that anyone's trying to dictate to Blue, or mocking his build on its own merits, is unfair and unfounded. Personally, I'm a big fan of concept builds. I'm a big fan of purposely sub-optimal theme or just-for-kicks power picks or slotting options. I thought it was worth explaining why the view is different here.
Go ahead and make nice if you want to do that. Me? I'll treat this thread like the mindless entertainment it's proven itself to be. Welcome to the sideshow.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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He hasn't mentioned once his problem with the market or how costly anything is. Everyone else did, and subsequently performed a semi-threadjack that boiled down to "because he's done stuff in another forum it's okay to be a bunch of arses to him here too." That doesn't make it pertinent to this thread unless you just want to talk down to him. He's asking a question that's been addressed, and now I'm trying to play to both sides of the thread: Blue's side and everyone else's side. I don't particularly care what he's said elsewhere, I'm addressing the issue at hand.|
Originally Posted by Obitus
And I was explaining why his build has been so heavily criticized. It ain't just because it's sub-optimal. It ain't just because it's expensive. It's because his build is willfully extravagant, even to its own detriment, and even in the face of Blue's loudly proclaimed financial victimhood. All of those things are inter-related. All of those things are pertinent. Why? Because Blue's playing a build that's causing him obvious pain, albeit indirectly. His specific question in this thread has been answered. The side issue of SL's slotting was addressed and summarily discarded on the first page, in fact.
You don't think I've tried offering helpful alternatives to this lost cause? I have, several times. So have countless others. If you think you're automagically different, then more power to you. It's just barely possible that he might listen to you because you've defended him here. I'm sure your air of moral superiority will appeal. But the implication that anyone's trying to dictate to Blue, or mocking his build on its own merits, is unfair and unfounded. Personally, I'm a big fan of concept builds. I'm a big fan of purposely sub-optimal theme or just-for-kicks power picks or slotting options. I thought it was worth explaining why the view is different here. Go ahead and make nice if you want to do that. Me? I'll treat this thread like the mindless entertainment it's proven itself to be. Welcome to the sideshow. |
Now if you're truly here for a 'sideshow' then kindly fill your mouth with popcorn, be still for a moment and let me see if I can't bring this scuffle to a decent compromise.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Much as you did in the Market forum, you've spent the majority of your time in this thread dismissing the good-faith and on-topic responses you've received -- and then complaining when the discussion inevitably moved on from there.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I have not complained once in this post about the cost of my enhancers. I did discuss market pricing in the market forum. When the vast majority of the 700 posts there kept shying away from the topic of market discussion to how I built my Brute I came back to Brute forum.
If you continue to harangue me like this I will complain to the forum moderator that you are engaging in annoying behavior. |
Discussion threads evolve. If you hadn't explicitly invited everyone in the Market forum to come here and talk about your build -- if you hadn't annoyed so many people over there -- your thread would be long dead by now. In a way, it's a gift that anyone's still talking at all.
Your problem isn't, and never was, that people refused to stay on topic. Your problem is that you haven't gotten the answers you wanted -- answers, presumably, confirming each and every one of your own personal biases. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the wider world, free discourse doesn't work that way.
You have every right to report me if you like. I may even get censored as a result. Having the dude who feels so oppressed call down a higher authority to silence disagreement would be the capper to an immensely entertaining thread.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I tried soul tentacles myself. It is quite disappointing because the cone is really narrow. Unless there are really huge number of mobs around you, you'll most likely hit 1 or 2 mobs most of the time. You'd better test it out first and see what you feel.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You bring up a very good point about Single Target damage, in general I am hitting Dark Obliteration a lot, and might squeeze the cone attack from Soul Mastery onto the build as well for more AoE goodness.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
As was already pointed out, in order for that chain to work, you need gloom to recharge in 1.32 seconds. Which is just not possible. So that chain has to be thrown out, because its just not possible to go smite/gloom/smite which is what that chain ends up doing on the second rotation:
(gloom/smite/midnight grasp/smite)(Gloom/smite/midnight grasp/smite) Look closely you have smite/gloom/smite which just isn't possible, when with your level of recharge. |
It's not my intention to sell the gloom/smite/MG/smite attack chain. However, if this is what Blue_Centurion wants, I think it's ok. Whether such kind of ultra-high recharge build is worth going after or not, I think we should just leave it to Blue_Centurion to decide. All we can do is to provide him with the information to make the choice.
I went with SM, MG, SM, Gloom, SL on my brute. i didnt need more than about 35 global rech to run it iirc. Slotted for typed defense and recovery and i was good to go. My SL was frankenslotted for both heal and damage.
For what it's worth, I use the following:
MG>Gloom>SM>SL>Smite
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by IridiumMaster
Hey jshmoe
I realize this may be thread-jacking, but since I'm using a variant of your ultimate ***-kicking build, might I inquire what you are going to do with it for I19? Any plans on what will you use with the three extra powers/incarnate slots?Cheers, IM |
Well, I am slamming in Hasten lol. I was thinking of adding Soul Mastery, Tentacles, but have hear the cone is real narrow. I am set up for Fly, want it, but may wait a bit still. I kind of want stealth, but am getting by with ghetto brute +stealth I/O. With my 42 mo vet recall team power and stealth I could help speed some TFs. but 2 powers.
I will prob take Hasten, Fly, and....havent decided. The only true definite is Hasten.
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You right, i did mean Smite would need to recharge in 1.32seconds, which with his current build (112.5% global recharge, no hasten) its at 1.984, so thats over a half second wait.|
Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
I tried soul tentacles myself. It is quite disappointing because the cone is really narrow. Unless there are really huge number of mobs around you, you'll most likely hit 1 or 2 mobs most of the time. You'd better test it out first and see what you feel.
Yes, the chain has a small time gap between smite and gloom. I believe you wanted to say that smite would need a recharge of 1.32 seconds, instead of gloom. The time gap varies with recharge, but the gap is small (like a few 0.1 second) for the recharge that Blue_Centurion is going after. If Blue_Centurion can push the global recharge to 200%, and slot midnight grasp with recharge reduction such that the ED is hit, then the attack chain can beat MG/Smite/SL/Smite even with the time gap. In fact, with gloom, the best attack chain with SL is MG/gloom/SL/smite instead of MG/Smite/SL/Smite. It's not my intention to sell the gloom/smite/MG/smite attack chain. However, if this is what Blue_Centurion wants, I think it's ok. Whether such kind of ultra-high recharge build is worth going after or not, I think we should just leave it to Blue_Centurion to decide. All we can do is to provide him with the information to make the choice. |
With my build, 112.5% rech, plus hasten, its at 1.754 seconds, so still a little under half a second wait.
There would be a gap, regardless, and i still think the DPS (atlest with his slotting) would be much less then putting siphon life into the build. Might be higher then the Shadow maul one though.
Especially with MG->Smite->Gloom->SL->smite pulling out more DPS, with the added benefit of a heal keeping you up while your attacking.
But, i do guess that MG->Smite->Gloom->smite would work out, you'll just have downtime that'll lower your DPS.
the best brute attack chain goes as follows
MG->Smite->SL->Gloom->smite which the build i made you can do, seemlessly
this chain, using my build does about
240.43+157.5+181.88+193.11+157.5
=930.42 damage the chain takes 8.052 seconds to animate, so thats 115.55DPS
The only chain your build that sustainable, is MG-Smite-gloom-Shadow maul-smite which does
127.2+152.25+191.23+226.3+152.25
=848.23 damage, in the 9.24 seconds, so that's 91.91DPS
If you dropped shadow maul, and got shadow punch, and kept about the same slotting, you could higher DPS. but i can see the argument to keeping shadow maul. just for reference, here's the chain that would include SP
MG->Gloom->Smite->SP->Smite
127.2+191.23+152.25+74.26+152.25
=697.19 damage in 6.996 seconds, so that's 99.65DPS
This helps a lot. It tells me I'm about 80% of optimum single target damage when i have to lean into that task. I am very happy with this, not ecstatic, but happy. 90% would have made me feel great.
In fact, as pointed out, I am generally not going ST. I know it is widely dissed on the forum, but I use SL and DP to make my build more tanky. And contrary to an opinion posted earlier i lean on Siphon Life as my main heal, and Dull Pain as my panic button. (I could have swore I posted that earlier) I always watch my green bar, anytime it starts to dip I hit Siphon life.
Thank again for your assistance.