Yet another kind of merit would be bad, but something nice for dealing with the little gits would be nice. Nothing groundbreaking, like you said, maybe just something like 1.5 x their normal exp.
Oh, and in before the whole 'What are you whining about, their push overs!' crowd. Been there, done that arguement, brought the nail-bat...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I concur. The Voids, Q-Gunners, and Nicti are certainly distracting when the team is trying to take on multitudes of other NPCs.
They should have some kind of special drop as a reward for defeating them.
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Never thought they were that much of a problem. They're just an enemy that garners a bit more priority (though less than certain enemies, like Sappers), and we do get XP for that.
It sounds like a plausible idea, but I don't think its necessary.
But this made me think of something else. We have a LOT of different merits, and chances are that there will be more. Its just a logical way to reward the player for specific things. But keeping track of all of these merits can be a task, so I propose an added tab to salvage just to view your merits; to help with organization.
They're already extra XP. And on a team, they're barely noticed. (Solo, they get a little more notice, but aren't that big a deal.) I personally would *not* want to be invited just so some badger can add to their list of shinies - or, for lack of a better way of putting it, to be seen as the manure in another sort of merit farm.
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And then on an 8-man TF, you get a Shadow Cyst Crystal appear with an ambush in the middle of an AV fight, and start flooding the place with Nicti.|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
Never thought they were that much of a problem. They're just an enemy that garners a bit more priority (though less than certain enemies, like Sappers), and we do get XP for that.
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My opinion of Kheldian enemies dropped a lot after that. Coincidentally, so did my opinion of the Kheldians themselves.
The worst part is that in a lot of situations, the Kheldian enemies just don't make sense! They are a tacked on distraction to the actual mission.
Should they drop some special badge or shiney? No. The really just shouldn't be in the first place. (Of course, I'm still bitter about the above event that resulted in 4 team wipes, before we lost most the group (including the PB) and had to abandon the TF...)
Could we at least stop running into these things in the missions? Maybe have them appear only as random overworld ambushes?
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Weren't Shadow Cysts appearing in random spawns confirmed to be a bug?
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If it was, then it is a bug that hasn't been squashed yet. That whole scenario? It happened last weekend.
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Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
Weren't Shadow Cysts appearing in random spawns confirmed to be a bug?
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Badges for Quantums, Voids and Cysts would be nice.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I think this is what drives me the most nuts about Voids and Quantums, really, but Voids especially. Here we are doing a mission full of zombies and guys that can't even afford a decent pair of pants and suddenly IT'S A PURPLE DUDE FROM BEYOND THE STARS!. |
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
The worst part is that in a lot of situations, the Kheldian enemies just don't make sense! They are a tacked on distraction to the actual mission.
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Now, I'm all for the Council having these guys around, maybe even a few of the other factions that might be inclined to steal or buy the tech from them (Malta, Crey, maybe Freakshow, and a few others) having Quantum gunners. But if they're going to show up for those groups, they should show up regardless of team makeup, really. If those Malta agents are precognitive enough to know that a Kheldian's coming to stop them, they should know to, I dunno, retreat from the operation a little bit quicker? And Voids are pretty much "we can't think of any logical way this group would have Quantum guns, so instead they've made an equally illogical alliance with Council bounty hunters".
And don't even get me started on the logic (or lack thereof) behind Cysts all over the place.
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While your anecdote is a tragic one and could have even been the result of a bugged spawn situation I seriously think it needs to be put in the perspective of what it was: an amazingly rare and unique scenario which was so unlikely it's hardly worth worrying about reoccurring.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
And then on an 8-man TF, you get a Shadow Cyst Crystal appear with an ambush in the middle of an AV fight, and start flooding the place with Nicti.
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I've played this game teamed for literally thousands of hours over the years, many times with Kheldians. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever seen a void/quant/cyst in an ambush and I can't recall one ever happening next to an AV. Basically I feel very safe in declaring what happened to you in this case was so exceedingly remote that while it likely sucked at the time it's the kind of thing you're going to look back on and find humorous in the long run. I know I would.
Basically I have no problem with a "random element" like voids/quants/cysts in this game. A good 99% of this game is almost trivially too easy to play - anything that makes us have to pay attention and play smart every once in a while can only be seen as a good thing as far as I'm concerned. *shrugs*
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Not to mention if the "8 Man TF" was an ITF it technically makes sense for a cyst to spawn.
On that note yes they will spawn on an ambush and in that case it can indeed become a crazy wild time.
I got a better idea: Just get rid of them. Kheldians have enough checks and balances without them. They're a product of an old development team with a different design philosophy, and they just don't fit into the game's current paradigm.
It doesn't have to be sudden. Add a new TF that has you kicking the Void Hunters off of Earth. Then after a few months remove the Void Hunter Spawns and put the new TF into Ouroboros.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
My only gripe is the Quantum Array Guns. I'm not bothered about the damage they do, only that they seem to have a ludicrously high chance to knockdown. It's hard to fight back when after every power, you're back on the floor.
Tweaking the recharge time or maybe the knockdown would definatley help and make fighting Voids and Quantums less stressful, as i'm not too bothered about being smacked by a mob which is designed to kill me, what i am bothered about is not being able to fight back.
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This is rare for me to do, but I will just say: This. Get rid of the things. They add nothing but still more problems for an AT that isn't exactly great even without them.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
I got a better idea: Just get rid of them. Kheldians have enough checks and balances without them. They're a product of an old development team with a different design philosophy, and they just don't fit into the game's current paradigm.
It doesn't have to be sudden. Add a new TF that has you kicking the Void Hunters off of Earth. Then after a few months remove the Void Hunter Spawns and put the new TF into Ouroboros. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The problem is less about "making you think" (at least for me) and more just a question of "Why have void hunters when quantum array guns are plentiful?"|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Basically I have no problem with a "random element" like voids/quants/cysts in this game. A good 99% of this game is almost trivially too easy to play - anything that makes us have to pay attention and play smart every once in a while can only be seen as a good thing as far as I'm concerned. *shrugs*
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I suppose Nemesis certainly wants to keep his 'steam punk' theme alive and thus doesn't want to equip any of his soldiers with those filthy 'non-steam powered' quantum array guns... but in the end it still doesn't make much sense.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I'd rather they showed up in the specific Kheldian arc, which makes sense, rather than running into the damn things every mission or other.
Leave in the odd Nictus Boss that pops up in normal missions. Those are quite fun, and actually make a bit of sense (well, except for the random White Dwarfs and Bright novas....those are Peacebringer forms, not Nictus...so....*shrug*)
The Cysts make no sense. Those things are meant to be ludicrously rare and well guarded. But oh, hey, put them in with a bunch of X mob for teh lulz!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'd rather they showed up in the specific Kheldian arc, which makes sense, rather than running into the damn things every mission or other.
Leave in the odd Nictus Boss that pops up in normal missions. Those are quite fun, and actually make a bit of sense (well, except for the random White Dwarfs and Bright novas....those are Peacebringer forms, not Nictus...so....*shrug*) The Cysts make no sense. Those things are meant to be ludicrously rare and well guarded. But oh, hey, put them in with a bunch of X mob for teh lulz! |
Void Hunters - Kheldian (PB/WS) Arcs Only, and probably the Moonfire TF (and any Council missions dealing with ze Nictus.)
Cysts - Only Appear in The missions that the very rare things should actually be in.
Bright Nova/Dwarves - Kept only to the Kheldian arcs dealing with Rogue Peacebringers.
Dark Nova/Dwarves - Council Enemy Boss.
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THought you said a "Better" idea. That's a "whiny" idea. I happen to like them. The world is reacting to *my* presence as a Kheld, I'm enough of a threat (and the war's wide reaching enough) to throw Q-guns and mercenaries out there to try to stop me, specifically. As opposed to "Oh, look, generic minion X, it's hero Y. No, no, hero Z is due ten minutes after this guy leaves. OK, places everyone!" |
Originally Posted by Vanden
I got a better idea: Just get rid of them.
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| The problem is less about "making you think" (at least for me) and more just a question of "Why have void hunters when quantum array guns are plentiful?" |
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I'll concede that, I still like the idea proposed of Voids only appearing in Kheldian arcs, though at the same time, it would be nice if they and other quantum gunners were a very rare (like, 1 in every 100 missions) spawn for normal players in kind of an "oops, sorry, we though you were someone else."
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Why have standing armed forces when AK-47s are plentiful?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Sorry, no. It was in a try at the Tin Mage Mk 2 Task force. So yes, this happened in the Closed Beta test at the time. Still, taking on Director 11 - an already incredibly challenging battle - and then have one of the ambushes bring in a Shadow Cyst Crystal... well, it just tipped the battle from "Extremely Tough and Challenging" to "Impossible."
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Originally Posted by Late2Party
Not to mention if the "8 Man TF" was an ITF it technically makes sense for a cyst to spawn.
On that note yes they will spawn on an ambush and in that case it can indeed become a crazy wild time. |
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Isn't it just the opposite though? If the war's so wide reaching, then enemy groups should have Quantum gunners around regardless, rather than just conveniently having them around when a Kheldian shows up. Either alternative could be sensible. Get rid of them entirely or keep them around all the time (perhaps code 'em like Sappers so you don't get more than one per spawn though?).
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
THought you said a "Better" idea. That's a "whiny" idea. I happen to like them. The world is reacting to *my* presence as a Kheld, I'm enough of a threat (and the war's wide reaching enough) to throw Q-guns and mercenaries out there to try to stop me, specifically. As opposed to "Oh, look, generic minion X, it's hero Y. No, no, hero Z is due ten minutes after this guy leaves. OK, places everyone!"
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According to the lore, a Bright Nova could be a transformation for any Kheldian; Peacebringer or Nictus. The transformations are merely the echoes of the form of a previous host. The only reason we associate Bright/White with Peacebringers and Dark/Black with Warshade/Nictus is because of the limitations of the game's powers system.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
except for the random White Dwarfs and Bright novas....those are Peacebringer forms, not Nictus...so....*shrug*
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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If I have a group fighting somewhere and have an option of using, say, RPGs, I'm not going to toss those out where there's not some sort of appropriate target to use them against. Alternately, the people using them aren't going to whip them out if they're not going to do any good against what they're facing - for all you know, the people who are packing a Q-gun ARE still in the spawn, but since it doesn't do anything special to your blaster/tank/brute, they're not wasting it. |
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Isn't it just the opposite though? If the war's so wide reaching, then enemy groups should have Quantum gunners around regardless, rather than just conveniently having them around when a Kheldian shows up. Either alternative could be sensible. Get rid of them entirely or keep them around all the time (perhaps code 'em like Sappers so you don't get more than one per spawn though?).
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As far as wide ranging, we're not talking "across Earth" here - on Earth it's very much in the shadows, as the Kheld arcs would show you. We're talking a war reaching across galaxies.
A major disparity between the Kheldians and other ATs is that Kheldians frequently have to deal with extra enemies in the form of Void Hunters, Quantum Gunners and so on. A lot has been done to tone down the nastiness of these mobs, but their presence on a mission still isn't generally appreciated. So... what if it could be?
My suggestion: Have all Voids, Quantums and other mobs that only appear for teams with Kheldians in them have a chance to drop a new kind of Merit (call it a War Council merit, say). These could then be turned in to a Peacebringer/Warshade bounty officer for various rewards. Nothing earth-shattering, but enough that the extra Voids you have to deal with due to being friends with a Kheldian aren't purely a downside. A couple of costume pieces, a "Bounty Hunter" or "Hunted the Hunters" badge, maybe let non-Kheldians buy the Kheldian costume change emotes, and some range of salvage and/or recipe rolls.
A system like this might not have been fair before Going Rogue, but now both sides can have Kheldians and the rewards would be open to all.
Workable? Idiotic? You decide!
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