Don't use caltrops...?!?!

traps/sonic def.

Tank is elaborately "herding" groups -- runs in, picks them up, runs back around corner, fights for a couple of seconds, then tells us to attack. Whatever. So...

PGT
acid mortar
trops
AoE sonic
try to get a T1 blast off on the one remaining guy who's running away

I am informed: "Don't use caltrops."

WTF? Trops are a big part of the mitigation of traps/. (And yes, they need mitigation, the tank died at least once doing this stuff.) They explain that trops make it harder for the tank to "gather" the mobs.

... Huh? The tank's already gathered them. He's an actual Tanker, per se, so he's got Gauntlet. It would take substantial effort for people to get the mobs off him, all trops does is make them run very slowly away and use their crappy ranged attacks very rarely.

Or am I crazy? Am I totally misunderstanding traps?

Tank doesn't know how the game works.

/end thread

The only reason I can see to not use trops is if they are making things run out of Gauntlet range...



...and are surviving long enough to get to other people.

that tank isn't very bright.

You're not missing the point at all, you just had the misfortune to meet one of those players who hate all powers that make the enemies move.

That being said, personally I tend not to throw Caltrops under the Tank, it generally doesn't hurt but it can cause problems with the mobs moving out of aura range if he has a set that gains some of it's mitigation from that. Caltrops is a nice power but in a team situation it's not as important to Traps as Acid Mortar, Seeker Drones, PGT and FFG. I'm more likely to use Caltrops to help keep squishy characters out of melee range than to help the tank. That being said from your description I would assume you're still relatively low level and there Caltrops is a lot more useful as general mitigation although it's also important to get in close so the tank benefits from your FFG.

At high levels my plan tends to go:
Seekers to draw the alpha
Jump into the middle to drop a PGT and Acid Mortar
Jump out and AoE them to death

P.S. I can't stand herding tanks. While there are occasions when it's helpful most of the time it's just slow.

One reason not to use trops is if you picked a set that doesn't have them, though I usually just reroll if that happens.

Reminds me of a team I was on where the tank expected everyone to wait for them to "gather", or whatever, and did this for EVERY FREAKING GROUP (they had binds they used to tell us where to wait). As if that wasn't boring and annoying enough, the guy was constantly admonishing us for anything he felt was a derivation from "correct" playstyle. After he asked me to stop using nem staff, I politely removed myself from the team...

Sounds like you may have run into something similar--although as one caveat, I do find it's best to use caltrops as a buffer between the baddies and the squishies; throwing trops under the group around the tank can cause unwanted scatter (especially for tanks that rely on their PbAoE auras for survival). I'm not saying that's what happened, just speaking to your general question about trops. Would also avoid them against baddies w/ slow resistance.

Level 26, I do have seeker drones, and used them "sometimes".

And yeah, I had to explain to them that traps/ plays from right under the tank, for the most part. I tried to put trops centered on "the most stuff" because that's how I usually use it. (I gained about 5 levels trick-or-treating, where trops-on-door was basically an IWIN button.)

Seebs is right; if the groups chases the tank around the corner, it will be a long time before they run anywhere away from the tank now standing in caltrops.

I am of two minds when it comes to herding tanks. Herding is fine, even desirable where there are two to three groups that are close enough that aggro will spill over to squshies working on one spawn already. Herding is abominable, and perhaps this was the case with seebs team, where the tank uses every aura attack, trick, AoE he can to get more than the 16 max taunt group following him, clearing out whole rooms. That not only puts all the squishies on the team at risk that use AoEs but can overwhelm the tank's ability to taunt and eventually defeat the tank.

While the Tanker's tactics were ... outdated, your Caltrops definitely didn't fit with what he was doing. He was probably picking spots to pull the mobs to based on breaking line of sight with them. If you dropped caltrops before the mobs arrived, you probably were preventing them from gathering at the place the Tanker expected them to gather and be mowed down by AoEs.

If you were dropping caltrops on the assembled mobs, the only issue I could see was if the speed they were being taken down was slow enough that the caltrops caused the mobs to scatter before being mowed down.

So to be clear, I don't think what it sounds like Tanker's was doing was terribly effective, but caltrops will interfere with a pull and they will cause mobs to scatter. Depending on the preferred playstyle of your teammates, either one or both might get you in hot water. It's up to you to decide whether you are interested in playing with folks with those kinds of playstyles.

Oh, I was waiting until the group was down. I was putting up with the "don't attack until the tank says to" rule. I would never drop trops while someone was trying to grab a new group, unless I was dropping them under a blaster.

I seem to recall that seeker drones were new enough to me that I didn't quite have the recharge to have them ready every pull.

At the Tankers feet you're potentially just making the team inefficient. I will caltrop at a tankers feet if his HP is suffering. I wouldn't prevent herding by stopping mobs from getting to the Tanker. Mostly the team could be split, some melee, some ranged. You could be in melee being traps but that could leave some lacking of mitigation on anyone ranged so I would chuck them under some blasters or a defenders feet. As a /Devices a ranged defender would have caltrops around them just incase some made it past the first line of defense or something. Mostly anywhere but before or at the feet of a Tanker. Truth is it can cause scatter and minimise a Tankers defense as well as minimise the maximum numbers within peoples aoes.

I did not read every response here. But from my experience, clatrops will cause scatter. Most of the time, scatter is evil. It's actually better to throw it at the feet (or in front) of the squishys on the team.

I haven't played my AR/Traps corruptor in a while, but I eventually spec'd out of caltrops. Again, useful for keeping melee opponents away, but as it stands, not the best to throw down under a tank.

Try throwing the trops so only a part of them are in laying inside the mob. That will generally cause the mob to scatter in one direction. Throwing them in the middle of the mob is just gonna scatter them everywhere.

You should make a demorecord the next something like this comes up. You've made 2 threads today where we have nothing but your account of what happened and the accused doesn't get to tell his side of the story.

Hah, you should have gone Bots/Traps...

"Whats that, fleshling? I can't hear you over the sound of how AWESOME I AM!!" *steamrollers x8 mobs*

But yeah...fail tank is fail. Thats the truth of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I have a bots/traps too. A friend of mine has a widow. We go steamrolling sometimes; widow turns on toggles, /follows, and we sit around chatting while I wander around the map looking for glowies. At +2/x4 or so. (We're only in the 30s.)

Caltrops is useful but I very rarely use it while teamed for basically this reason. Caltrops is one way to get enemies into a certain position and Taunt is another, and they don't necessarily play well together. If someone's got the enemies positioned around themselves I rarely find the slow useful anyway (where are the enemies going?) Like others have said though, solo is a whole other story, and sometimes I use the trops to block an area where I'm standing some distance from the Tank.

All that said, this Tank sounds like someone I had the misfortune of running with once, binds and all. You were right to quit, although I also wouldn't personally continue throwing caltrops under Tankers in general.

Hmm, well speaking as a tanker player I can see the scatter = bad, but 'trops should be slowing them down enough for it not to really matter. I'm not completely familiar with them, do they slow to the same extent that, say, Tar Patch does? If so then by all means once a tank has the group nicely bunched toss them out. If I'm teamed with a fire blaster for example I definitely have them drop Rain of Fire once I have the mobs grouped... they won't run far thanks to the slow in Rain.

An experienced, competent tanker will compensate and adjust his tactics based on the team and the situation. About the only real issues I have with players making life difficult for me are either the 'troller who immob's before I've bunched the group (and I can deal with that, I just have to work harder and it limits AOE usefulness) or the idiot Stormy I had on a TF awhile back who ran Hurricane at all times and insisted on standing RIGHT BESIDE ME. That was a fiasco and it took over a dozen tells and 7 missions to get him to quit 'caning the mobs away from me. Unfortunately he had the star.

Tossing a patch that slows the mobs and also damages them? In most situations I'd say bring it on; I'm not going to loose aggro and the mobs shouldn't scatter enough to matter. The one big exception being Warwolves since they're nearly immune to slow.

Ah, the tanker wasn't Willpower was he? If so he may have a point, his aura is weak enough to shed aggro the instant mobs leave melee with him forcing him to use other methods to hold aggro.