Ninjas/...Traps or Pain?

First off, I do not have access to Mids so I won't be able to post a build. I won't even get to play this combo until I get back from Iraq. What I'm looking for are people that have great experiences with either or both (firsthand or witnessing it in action makes no difference). I'm going to list my overall ideas for both builds. Positive criticism is appreciated.

For Traps: I would end up taking everything but caltrops and the suicide vest. I would also take the single target attacks, leadership pool, grant invis, and healing pool. My travel power will be SJ and I'll take Acro for the KB protection. I plan to use only the Jounin and Oni. I'll also take the scorpion shield patron power. Just using IOs, I can get softcap s/l.

For Pain: I'll take everything but Share Pain. I'll have all arrow attacks. Only my pets will be six slotted. I'll have 5 slots in attacks and heals. Painbringer and Anguishing Cry will have 3 recharges each. I will have GW as my patron and use Dark Embrace and Oppressive Gloom. Suppress Pain should keep me from losing too much health (if any) and I can keep everything stunned while my Ninjas clean up. I would still take Leadership, grant invis, and Acro from jumping pool for my extra powers.

Both of these builds are for i19 since it will probably come out before i get back. Again, I am sorry I have no Mids to post here. Please leave any suggestions/ideas you may have. Thanks and Happy Hunting.

If your looking for a secondary to go with Ninjas, don't pick Pain.

Reasoning is that you will go insane after about the 3000th time your ninjas are one shotted before you get chance to heal... Which would be approx 1-2 hours gameplay...

But I'll leave it to someone with a bit more Ninja expertise to make the final verdict (As I'm not sure about those builds myself, I can't see not taking the T1 pets as I always take all of mine)

I would maybe go Ninja/FF? What is the Def of the tier 1 pet anyway? With deflection, dispersion bubble, Call to Arms 5% IO and Maneuvers you can add you can add another 38.5% defense to it. If they are 6% or higher you are soft capped.

Also take Aid Other to heal them if something manages to get through the defense

I'll have to second avoiding ninja/pain. I shelved mine after recently returning from a longish break and running a few missions. I can't for the life of me figure out how I made it to 34 without flipping out and killing people (irl). Ninjas are the squishiest pets available, and you're constantly struggling to keep them healed; when they aren't being outright one-shotted.

I re-rolled her into ninja/storm and life is so much better.

I can't comment on /traps, I've never found a thematic concept that kept me interested for more than 10 or so levels.

1. Traps is pretty much god mode.

2. Caltrops is great your making a mistake not taking it.. It makes mobs attack then run.. attack then run. If they are running they sure are not attacking. Very good low level damage mitigation tool, which is great at higher levels. Heck if it makes a AV run it has to be good.

3. You can slot 2 IOs - KB protection and +3 to all Defenses from Steadfast protection IO and pick another power besides Acrobatics.

4. Lockdown IO set in Poison Traps will allow for some nice holds like this. Or at least the Proc from the set.

5. You will be decent with regular IOs, but slotting some low end sets will make a big difference.

First, thanks for the great advice/experiences shared. I had always thought ninja/pain would be annoying b/c of the low def of the pets. As for some of the suggestions:

1. I was thinking my Jounin could just use their caltrops. I think me having that power also would be pointless, but then again I could put it in a much more strategic area. I will consider this.

2. I have tried /FF and I find myself falling asleep at the computer very quickly. I don't think I'll ever like FF for any toon. As for /Dark, I have that on another MM and it is awesome. I may try /Dark with the ninjas. My only real downer for that is the very limited range of the heal. Darkest Night would be perfect for the ninjas though.

3. I do plan on using the Genins to start out with and then respec out of them. Their def is horrible (i thought it was 5-6%) and they just die way too easily. I also plan on using plenty of IO sets but I like to start w/ general IOs and go from there.

4. As for Acrobatics, if I can get some KB protection IOs then I might drop it. It does also offer some protection from holds, although I think the FFG in /traps does that too. I'll have to look it up.

Again, thank you for the advice/suggestions. I look forward to playing again soon. Have a great day.

i'm having fun with poison. weaken on one mob and envenom on another, combine with smoke flash and run in at once you can take down that first mob fast while the 2nd is doing less damage. envenom the next and repeat. the trick is to setup smoke flash first, send the pets right at the foot of the mob while casting envenom, then make them all attack that first target. follow that with Neurotoxic Breath to keep them clustered so the Oni can fire away

i cant wait for noxious gas.

Obscure Blade, I am definitely looking at sticking with Traps atm. The FFG is just too good. I could drop Acro and fit in something else. Also, with the FFG buffed the Genins just might survive long enough to get a few kicks off. I have to admit that when I solo though I still like to use just Jounin and Oni. They are fun to watch.

Baracca, I have a merc/poison MM and I'm really liking him so far. I would like to try /poison on a pet who is melee oriented like the Bruiser or the Hellfire Gargoyle. I bet it's awesome. I am glad you're enjoying ninja/poison. I tried a while ago into the teens and didn't like it that much. Maybe I'll try again though.

Thanks again for suggestions/ideas. I think I will stick with Traps atm. I am liking the Poison idea also. Man, I can't wait to play all the new stuff! Have a great day.

I have a 50 Ninjas/Storms/Electric Mastery and it is quite fun and VERTY survivable
With the Ninjas I did not take any of the Arrow Attacks.....
just everything else in the primary.
With the storms I took everything and it makes a HUGE difference in slowing down the enemy, protection and just stopping them in their tracks.
Oh.... and did I mention that it is a LOT of fun? LOL

Regarding Jounin Caltrops: they differ from player Caltrops in that they only last as long as the target they 'cast' it on lives. Your personal caltrops can be placed, as you say, more stratigecally, and will last the full 45 seconds. Your jounin may throw caltrops while targeting some minion they afterwards annihilate. (It's been a while since i've played Ninjas, someone correct me if this behavior's changed.)

I'd get caltrops for sure. They are there when you need them, where you need them, and more than likely for far longer than you need them.

Ditto on the Caltrops. It's an amazing Damage mitigation tool. It forces the game AI to run out of that area yet try to run back and fight you which is precisely what you want to do. It's great for situations where you need to get you bodyguards ready. Great for narrow passages, great for open spaces and huge mobs. Great for teams and soloing. In PvP, it's great for exposing Stalkers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telperion Regarding Jounin Caltrops: they differ from player Caltrops in that they only last as long as the target they 'cast' it on lives. Your personal caltrops can be placed, as you say, more stratigecally, and will last the full 45 seconds. Your jounin may throw caltrops while targeting some minion they afterwards annihilate. (It's been a while since i've played Ninjas, someone correct me if this behavior's changed.) I'd get caltrops for sure. They are there when you need them, where you need them, and more than likely for far longer than you need them.

I did not give it much thought when I was creating my Ninja/Pain. I have played other healer types and it always tends to work in my favor.

I have had no issue soloing with the Ninja/Pain and when in a group that desperate heal is often appreciated and saves the party some time because it saves a re-summoning of my mastermind companions.

The heals go up in how much they heal for as you level, they have a low endurance cost and I have had great success at keeping my pets alive to fight the next mob in short order.

Currently I'm 26 with the Ninja/Pain so all of this is not to say that at later levels I'm not going to find that it becomes less effective but it has been fun and highly productive when soloing/grouping. Maybe its just my mindset or how I like to play but I find the Ninja/Pain to be a lot of fun and totally playable.

Superfly

The best pairings for Ninjas are /Traps, /FF, /Storm and /Dark. This is because the Jounin have very solid positional defense values and the other pets have low but universal protection (Range/Melee/AoE).

In fact, one of the best pairings might well be /FF. Your Genin and Oni can achieve 55% defense to all positions while the Jounin can hover around 65%-- this involves power boosted bubbles and the defense aura pet IO. The Genin will still fall now and then, but the Jounin and Oni are unstoppable beasts with /FF.

Traps could get high defense numbers-- but not quite full time soft capped. It does have plenty of tricks that make up for this, however.

Here is my i19 build. Just threw it together. Any ideas/suggestions are gladly appreciated.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

gadget gnat: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Ninjas
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Genin -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc(5), BldM'dt-Dmg(7)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob(A)
Level 2: Caltrops -- TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(7)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(15)
Level 6: Train Ninjas -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A), DefBuff-I(9)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(17), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LdyGrey-%Dam(46)
Level 12: Call Jounin -- EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(A), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(21), EdctM'r-Acc/EndRdx(21), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), EdctM'r-PetDef(23), Achilles-ResDeb%(25)
Level 14: Super Jump -- ULeap-EndRdx(A), ULeap-Jump(48)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 18: Aid Other -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(29), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Dct'dW-Heal(31), Dct'dW-Rchg(46)
Level 20: Poison Trap -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), Lock-%Hold(48)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def(34)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Oni -- SvgnRt-PetResDam(A), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(34), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(36), HO:Endo(36), HO:Perox(36)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(37), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(37), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 32: Kuji In Zen -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 35: Trip Mine -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(43), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), GftotA-Def(43)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Smoke Flash -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Aid Self -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(50), Mrcl-Heal(50), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(11), Heal-I(11)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(13), EndMod-I(13)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 4.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 4.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 5% Defense
• 1.25% Defense(Smashing)
• 1.25% Defense(Lethal)
• 8.125% Defense(Fire)
• 8.125% Defense(Cold)
• 8.75% Defense(Energy)
• 8.75% Defense(Negative)
• 2.5% Defense(Melee)
• 9.063% Defense(Ranged)
• 10.63% Defense(AoE)
• 5.85% Max End
• 9% Enhancement(Heal)
• 26.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 5% FlySpeed
• 69.27 HP (8.627%) HitPoints
• 13% JumpHeight
• 13% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Confused) 5%
• MezResist(Held) 7.2%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 7.2%
• MezResist(Sleep) 5%
• MezResist(Stun) 6.65%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 7.2%
• 16% (0.267 End/sec) Recovery
• 10% (0.335 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 10% Resistance(Smashing)
• 12.5% Resistance(Lethal)
• 15.02% Resistance(Fire)
• 12.52% Resistance(Cold)
• 10% Resistance(Energy)
• 10% Resistance(Negative)
• 10% Resistance(Toxic)
• 10% Resistance(Psionic)
• 5% RunSpeed

Well since your going with IOs here is a build I suggest.. Or something within this frame work..

1. Your build its not defense capped when it could be.

2. Don't take super jump, simple reason why. If your playing with competent players doing some sort of TF. The amount of running around at high speeds will make your pets useless except for big fights.. They more then likely want you for the debuff traps offers.. They could probably do the missions without the debuffs but it just speeds up the kill process. In small places like caves and building in which 80% of the missions are make SJ useless.

3. Super speed and a single stealth proc allow you to run around and not get hit. So you can zip to the end with everyone else or when solo and finish off a mission.

4. If your at defense cap then you will not need power boost. It really, really is only useful for several powers. I do not think it will effect FFG, I believe it does not effect Pseudo pets which many of your traps powers are.

5. You an pick whatever epics you want. I went with fire because it offers a really great cheap power like Bonfire which keeps mobs at bay and for every mob that hits it offers me a chance of getting a free recharge bonus and adds some aggro. Fireball really not for killing but for building up aggro along with Provoke add that along with Trip Mine and you have a decent aggro building tool to keep the bad guys from looking at your pets.. Great during AV fights.. Imagine the Fantastic 4 movie when blaze hits thing in the head with a fireball. He didn't hurt him but really got the thing mad at him.. Aggro.... Rise of the Phoenix well honestly its a reality check.. Stuff happens. I can't survive everything.. But you can swap out Fire for another set and end up with some nice resistance bonuses.. All up to you..

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Heat Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones

• (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
• (15) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
• (15) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
• (19) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (19) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
• (25) Blood Mandate - Damage

• (A) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Recharge
• (3) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Endurance
• (3) Enfeebled Operation - Endurance/Immobilize
• (5) Enfeebled Operation - Immobilize/Range
• (5) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize
• (7) Enfeebled Operation - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge

• (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge
• (7) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• (9) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (45) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge

• (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
• (9) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
• (11) Harmonized Healing - Heal/Recharge
• (27) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge

• (A) Accuracy IO

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO

• (A) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff
• (11) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
• (13) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge
• (13) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
• (46) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (46) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (45) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
• (40) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
• (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
• (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
• (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
• (43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

• (A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
• (21) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
• (21) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
• (23) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (23) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (25) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

• (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt
• (43) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge
• (43) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range
• (45) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
• (48) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range
• (48) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

• (A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
• (29) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
• (29) Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
• (31) Stupefy - Stun/Range
• (31) Stupefy - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
• (31) Stupefy - Chance of Knockback

• (A) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage
• (37) Sovereign Right - Damage/Endurance
• (39) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Endurance
• (39) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (39) Sovereign Right - Accuracy
• (40) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus

• (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy
• (33) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance
• (34) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance
• (34) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (34) Blood Mandate - Damage

• (A) Obliteration - Damage
• (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
• (36) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
• (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

• (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (50) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (50) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage

• (A) Celerity - +Stealth

• (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Empty

• (A) Healing IO
• (50) Healing IO

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (40) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (46) Endurance Modification IO

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1589;761;1522;HEX;|
|78DA9D93D94F135114C6EF745A4A37DA5AC69602D2B208B214889AB825C65D139AA|
|0D568D4D88C30C0C43253DB92881BB8BDF9A0A8F1C937417DF0456334688CFE3B2A|
|8B0BEE5ACF3DE74249E6CD49FBFDA6DF9C73EEB9A7779267767A191BDFCAA4C08E8|
|C9ACFA7936ABEA0E58675A3DF915407F53EE6648C454B6E3A35323C6C1A8903E649|
|B3A0F7E595658FB68F0C0C240EE6D46C3EB8CF18D2729A51482CDEF87A4D3393D8A|
|D0F0E157463D08DBF52594DEBF7E36D8FA6F66BB9FC909E0DE2EFA46AE8D9918C5A|
|D04DA36A5756EF4BECD5D482E86E349D2AA899535A2E02BDAD87EFB48389ABE860E|
|F00DDACE23DE10362C50C61161199438CDA9765DD90B8659B20DC44D86F11EE20CA|
|6E23CE42964459B2F4849E4C016A59F90B2CDBFE0C710EE26489E2E424C695EF013|
|433F73644740B664930606ABFC81C514CAD07CB49A9CCD986D679A8E612BDBA2499|
|27BA6D08AF4CB0233A1C843244100A79A890CDA3600FD14A442C809021C04701922|
|F8CFDB44710176041BF48F52BD870A092104084203548018EE07D1BAFD63C895833|
|4578407888687D84B8086543621FA105B42ABF12BE21567E27FC40447E22ECB0962|
|2DA5468039D623BF0242CEA850D5AC9246411EDA7119D39421EF10A065E25665E15|
|C7018F4163D5A250F5188EA0669C7009B1EA32E10AE12AE23514AA1543A89DC7428|
|D1F11AB3F113E13BE209A17106F20AB4EAC5547473246A73646A7364EA7364EA736|
|4EC7751C3AAC1759F5BF701F0DBF097F087F118D45029339DEC25A4D62AB4DB4D55|
|090B11661B55CC36005AC36B26C6D4F31AAFB39E131A201E69C104732E1C29C30E4|
|7489325D1368D594DE28F8C0C57A2C4E6FE9FD61123AC9524CD11560BC6F46C1FF7|
|54D7B17CBB9F6BB41535C0E7139CCE50897A35C8E7139CEE504973497E2CBA56CFF|
|06DED7462E9BB86CE6A2407FEC3A8F747A403C5CBC5C7C5C2AB8F8B904B884B844B|
|9DCF32CED6806922569F9FE672DCE5CC991A446FA1F08F3A52736E92EBD7534FB8E|
|1806745906DE6A71BA2DCE3A8BB3D6E29426FC0FA34941C0|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|