Willpower vs Invulnerability

Going to create my first Tanker, which is the better set combined with Super Strength? Basically looking for the most defence.

Flip a coin and run with it. You won't be disappointed. I prefer Invulnerability, but not for any quantitative reason.

I have argued that Invulnerability is slightly better in some edge cases, but they're really very closely matched -- and it was my impression that WP was more forgiving early on, so you can see that opinions vary.

I have seen some steely-tough WP Tankers in my day and respect the durability of the set.

Runs to get popcorn....

Well actually so far the thread is pretty civil, with people giving fair, even-headed responses. We might not need the popcorn. We can't have that! *ahem*

INVULN TOTALY LEIK OMG IT IZ LIKE E-Z MODE AND SOOOOO MUCH BETTAR THAN WimPee!

>_>

<_<

>_>

But no, seriously, the sets are about even. The only complaint i've ever seen about WP is that it's hard to keep agro just by standing in a group of guys like Invuln can. Taunting and using "punch-voke" is a bit more of a requirement when using WP if you plan on actually TANKING and keeping foes off your teammates. But other than that, you can't go wrong picking one over the other.

If the question is "which can be made the toughest/the most defensive?" I would probably give the edge to Invul; the ability to soft-cap S/L resistance in addition to the other mitigation it provides is a big advantage against most foes. However, as someone else noted, that's in edge cases that you probably most run into very often. In other words, a well-built WP is plenty tough enough for 99% of the game.

Some specific differences:

Iinvul: ability to soft-cap S/L resistance; superior taunt aura for easier aggro control; much easier less expensive to soft-cap defense to most damage types.

WP: recovery is a non-issue from level 12 (QR) on, which makes the early levels much less painful; has both Psi resistance and defense, which Invul lacks completely; much more difficult/expensive to soft-cap defense, but regen bonuses are easy to come by, which plays toward WP's strength.

I really don't think you could go wrong with either, but if you're looking for a tank with excellent aggro control, I'd go for Invul. If you expect to face a lot of Psi enemies, WP is the better choice.

With Fitness powers becoming inherent, I think Invulnerability will be more popular than Will Power.

Man I need this thread days ago.

Willpower is good for an all around defense with some passive powers and good recovery in HP and endurence AND PSICONICS!!. But if hit with something extra hard, you probally won't last the next heavy hit.

Invul gives great denfense to lethal and smashing, the most common damge types, along with some heavy shielding, but just like many, is weak to the psychics.

I think both of them do well, you won't be dissapointed, especially when you start to set it out. Both sets are considered strong, and as people have said, you'll see passioned arguements on either side .

Pre IO's I never would of recommended an inv tank. HOWEVER, with IO's , it could even be stronger. My old Inv/Axe tanker I created way back in like issue 6/7 now has a post i19 build planned where he is softcapped to all but psi with 1 foe in range of invincibility.

Now you could probably do the same thing with WP too, I just have more experience with the inv side of things

Happy Tanking

Oh and , which server do you plan to build on? always look out for tanker tuesday days. They run every month on champion/justice/freedom , then for the last 1 or 2 tuesdays its a random server!

With IO's you can get some decent defense and resistance to Psi with an Inv. I have tanked Mother Mayhem on my Inv. When I did a LGTF everyone thought my Inv was going to be slaughtered by all the mentalists. However I have an ace in the hole....




Perma Dull Pain.....

Yeah, WP is definitely easier from 1 to 50. With the introduction of inherent Fitness in Issue 19, Invuln will become comparatively more attractive at lower levels, but it still has a disadvantage: It needs more powers to reach its peak (all of them), and it will never match WP's endurance recovery.

The psi hole is the other obvious disparity, but I feel that's offset by Invuln's better taunt aura, better toxic RES, and better DEF-debuff resistance (both literally and by extension, because Invincibility scales way beyond 45% DEF on a well-IOed build). You can also give an Invuln build something like 80% of a stock WP's standing regeneration through IO bonuses (say 50ish HP/sec), which is nothing to sneeze at.

The toxic RES is an under-rated point, I think -- not because toxic damage is all that common, but because toxic attacks bypass typed defense, and they're often bundled with -regen debuffs. Given that the most common IO strategy for both WP and Invuln is to pump typed DEF, and given that WP's largely reliant on regeneration once you get past that DEF, toxic can be a bit of a pain on those rare occasions when it's heavily featured.

Invuln also has a better panic button. Strength of Will is less risky to use, but it provides a vastly inferior benefit when it's up, which is both good and bad, I guess: On the one hand, Unstoppable is arguably must-have in a set that's already power-selection-heavy, whereas SoW is optional in a set that already has a throw-away power (the rez). Which you prefer will ultimately boil down to preference.

So to sum up:

Invulnerability:

• Better DEF-debuff resistance (50% versus IIRC 25%), and better overhead against DEF debuffs (due to Invincibility scaling)
  
• Better Toxic resistance (30ish% standing, potentially 90% with Unstoppable active).
  
• Easier-to-cap DEF and HP through IO investment.
  
• Much, much better taunt aura.
  
• Decent slow resistance. (20% versus 0.)
  
• Far superior mitigation against Smash/Lethal damage, for all that it matters (IOed WP is very good here too).

• Far superior mitigation against psionic damage.
  
• Protection against fear
  
• Much better perception
  
• Higher regeneration, which doesn't have a lot of counters throughout the game, but when they appear they tend to shut you down completely.
  
• Potentially better DEF with no foes in range, which isn't all that important but it does mean that WP has a marginal advantage at the very beginning of a fight.
  
• Higher endurance recovery --

  Again, not a deal breaker at the high end, but SS Tankers in particular can be deceptively endurance-heavy. (Rage crashes are costly.) If you can't resolve the endurance situation to your satisfaction on an SS Tanker, then you'll end up being pidgeonholed into the Energy Mastery Ancillary, which doesn't have a whole lot to recommend it besides endurance management. (The attacks are terrible compared to those in Mu/Pyre/Soul, and any Rage-using character has very little need for Focused Accuracy.)

• Fewer essential power picks (arguably 7 versus 9), which translates into more build freedom at least until you start to consider min/max IO builds. (Which might require a less forgiving slotting scheme for WP, because WP starts with much less S/L DEF.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Great write-up Obitus, but you forgot about Dull Pain. And I can't in any way consider Unstoppable a must-have. Dull Pain is Inv's panic button, Unstoppable is the throwaway in the set.

How do you achieve perma dullpain??