Originally Posted by Another_Fan
![]() That's an old one, its right up there with forumites pushing prejudices as fact.
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Farming archtype
Solo Farming = Lowest amount of inf/kill + Constant Drops/kill
Farming for drops is deflationary. If you are going to blame anyone for inflation, blame the people that play on large teams. They produce the most inf/kill and the least drops/person. |
Level 50s earn double influence because they no longer earn experience. Level 50 common recipes also vendor for disproportionately high influence values.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
OP, if all you want is a farm toon to get purps and influence, make a SS/Fire brute, and when you get to 45 or so look up Harvey Maylor in Peregrine Isle. His story arc has a defeat all mish which is nothing but Praetorian demons, the infamous "Demon Farm". All fire dmg, no mezz, no KB etc.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Harvey_Maylor Once you have that mish, just farm it all you like. I do it on +4x8 for kicks, but +2x8 is fine, purple drops to sell or use, and I get around 10 million per run solo doing it, a run lasting what? 15 minutes maybe (I don't hurry). I also farmed Infernal's mish for a bit until I got Harvey's demon farm. It isn't interesting, or much fun, except when you see the purple drops, that's always cool. Gets the job done though. |
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
Except that 8 man team of lower level characters will be generating far less influence than one level 50 solo farming.
Level 50s earn double influence because they no longer earn experience. Level 50 common recipes also vendor for disproportionately high influence values. |
Maybe run demons in AE at 45... I would wait to get the mish for after you ding 50.
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In fact, I was farming the AE Demon mish through my 30's, problem is, no good drops, plus you get diminishing returns for AE tickets after the first completion (you want to complete, as first time you get like 700 tickets bonus).
However, that is an excellent way to very quickly speed the 30's by to get to Harvey's opening lvl requirement. I was getting a level every two runs of that mish.
Harvey's is exactly the same, except you get drops, xp and money, so it helps much for recipes.
Also, I got Harvey's demon farm around 46 or so. Every time I lvl'd, I'd just drop the mish and re-get from him, which made it my level again. (EDIT: there is one quick cave mish to complete first each time you drop and re-get). Eventually, I hit 50, re-got it, and set it at +4x8, since by then my Brute was simply a beast for this farm.
OP, SS/Fire is arguably the best farmer in the game against certain enemies..the demon farm being about the best. Rage, plus mega-AoE, filling 50% of HP every 20 seconds, 100% of End every minute and a half and gobbling insp like candy makes you pretty much in god mode. The first grp is tougher, but soon as the rage builds and the insp start falling like rain, you can clear the map never stopping, not much danger.
As I said, it really isn't much fun, other than when you see that Purple recipe text pop up, but I can feed my "fun" toons easily.
EDIT: The mish you want is listed as 4.1.7.2 on the wiki page I listed.
Sorry, I thought it was kinda new, I havent seen anyone claim that teaming was bad for the game before, this being an MMO and all. It was actually kinda refreshing, since most folks think you have to team to play.
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Except that 8 man team of lower level characters will be generating far less influence than one level 50 solo farming.
Level 50s earn double influence because they no longer earn experience. Level 50 common recipes also vendor for disproportionately high influence values. |
And a level 1 farming generates incredibly less inf than 1 level 50 farming, but still generates more goods / inf than a team of 8 level 1s
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of the vast population of level 1 solo farmers.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison;
Very much this. If you are going to complain about high prices and ripping people off, farming is the last thing you should be doing.
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I am still having trouble trying to understand what your point is though.
For melee farming, SS/Fire brute is the way to go. Demon farm is cake and you can make AE farms quite easy with just fire damage as well.
No large teams causes the greatest amount of inflation. If you feel inflation is bad for the game then you come to that conclusion. I think inflation is not only fine its positively beneficial.
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If you recall, I was questioning the logic of the ops stated principles of not screwing the guy at the auction house at the same time as contributing to the guys perception of being screwed.
Its like the aggriculture investor getting angry about the plight of overcrowded chickens on a farm, at the same time as demanding more return on his investment this quarter from the opperator.
Are you saying that farmers don't contribute to inflation at all? Because even if he contributes a little bit, I would say that is at odds with his stated principles. (Sorry OP, not against you personally, you are just the handiest example)
Inflation works for me, I can sell my stuff at whatever price some impatient person is willing to pay, and patiently buy stuff at a price I am willing to pay.
As for Farmers Vrs Large Teams... I think the large team would have to be highly optimized and coordinated to gain more infl/time than a farmer. Specially once you consider the average groups "afk min" "Bio" "omw" "selling..." etc.
You may find this an interesting read.
So on paper, yes, large teams make more, In reality? Questionable.
When you said this I thought you were trying to say that farmers in general were driving prices up, and ripping people off. I am still having trouble trying to understand what your point is though. |
If you aren't comparing solo farming to solo farming or just soloing in general, to teaming,what are you comparing, and are you trying to say that level 50s are bad for the game ?
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I simply saw someone who seemed to have a problem with high prices. I then stated that farming would only serve to drive prices higher. Remember that you brought up teams, saying that they added more to inflation. I refute that because most large teams are not level fifty.
People ho play level fifty characters do the most to drive inflation. I never claimed this was bad for the game. That's another discussion entirely. I simply stated that farming only serves to drive prices higher.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
plus you get diminishing returns for AE tickets after the first completion |
If this is true, what is the DR timer?
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I myself have 2 tanks and a brute.. fire/fire is retired, but with burn being viable may return..
now onto my bread and butter. I have a SS/shield tank. and an electric/shield brute..
truthfully, mids brute vs in game tank (brutes in process of slotting) brute matches defensive measures hand for hand.. and since lightning rod and shield charge have a 300 or 400% damage cap, that is overlooked..
the difference comes into play style.. for instance, excluding hand clap for obvious reasons.. SS has quite a few draw backs.
Rage, while capable of double stacking for 30 seconds with no outside sourced recharge, has a 10 second window of -10k% damage, every 30 seconds.. now on average, my tank can clear 5, 8 man groups with bosses, in 2 minutes, from first rage to first rage crash.
following that initialization, every 2 minutes, you have 40 seconds of downtime, due to no damage output.
tanks inherently have a 400% damage cap, (base= 100%, enhance can = 100%, 2x rage = 160%, against all odds = 55%*maxed*)
on the other hand, brute has no crash, assuming the correct primary is chosen, and you avoid silly skills like one with the shield or any other temp buff with a - end/hp/damage crash.
for instance, (again ignoring LR and SC for low damage caps *proven in the field*) I can put out a third strike of >= damage with thunder strike, the skill that proved the damage cap of LR and SC in my test, every 10 seconds (5 sec recharge, 5 sec activation) with 180% recharge that I maintain damage cap.
with the correct flow and a steady supply of mobs, this is easy to do via inspiration micro management
If you would like to discuss in extreme detail, or get a build, or help starting a nest egg fund to work from. contact me at my global handle @Master Martial
cant give away all my secrets on the forums xP
Are you saying that farmers don't contribute to inflation at all? Because even if he contributes a little bit, I would say that is at odds with his stated principles. (Sorry OP, not against you personally, you are just the handiest example)
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As for Farmers Vrs Large Teams... I think the large team would have to be highly optimized and coordinated to gain more infl/time than a farmer. Specially once you consider the average groups "afk min" "Bio" "omw" "selling..." etc. You may find this an interesting read. |
Farmers willing to pay ridiculous high prices for even mediocre IO's right nao! pour fuel on the flames of the perception that prices are ridiculously high. Complaining about the price of stuff being too high ensues whilst forgetting that they too can sell things on the market and get ridiculously high prices for them. Repeat. |
If your farming goal is money, which is maximized from items, go alone. |
Of all the ways you can run content soloing produces the smallest amount of inf/item. So unless the farmer is destroying their drops and just keeping the inf, they are driving prices to a lower point than a team of 8 doing the same things would.
Large teams have a per kill multiplier. A team of 8 gets a multiplier of 2.5 so that team would need to kill at less than 40% of the rate of the solo farmer. More importantly drops depend only on kills. A killed enemy does not drop 2.5 times as much stuff for a team of 8. So no matter how fast or slow the large team goes its always producing more inf/item. |
so those 640 kills could drop any manner of things.. and solely for you
now on the same map. same mobs and all of that. a team of 8 has to split the drops from those 640 mobs. now they may clear it in half the time, or even faster. but the chances of getting anything substantial drop dramatically
so basically.. if purely farming inf, and not drops. teams are the way to go.. but if seeking rare drops.. solo will shine every time. not entirely uncommon to pull 2-3 purples in a day or 2. more if you dedicate significant time to it and use the best map/mob/technique combo.
dragging a few bosses or lt's from grp to grp is efficient, in that you maintain an aoe based killing stream , incorporating minions and stragglers from the previous grp into your initial dps burst at each new group.
While this is true, the fact is that in a team, the drops are split between the party members. so (using architect map values as a reference) that there are 32 groups, of 20 mobs each, (using my tanker as a timer) at 2.5/3 groups per minute, depending on technique. that is 70-80 kills a minute, meaning (roughly and leaning towards slower runs) 12 minutes a clear.
so those 640 kills could drop any manner of things.. and solely for you now on the same map. same mobs and all of that. a team of 8 has to split the drops from those 640 mobs. now they may clear it in half the time, or even faster. but the chances of getting anything substantial drop dramatically so basically.. if purely farming inf, and not drops. teams are the way to go.. but if seeking rare drops.. solo will shine every time. not entirely uncommon to pull 2-3 purples in a day or 2. more if you dedicate significant time to it and use the best map/mob/technique combo. dragging a few bosses or lt's from grp to grp is efficient, in that you maintain an aoe based killing stream , incorporating minions and stragglers from the previous grp into your initial dps burst at each new group. |
Plus: I gotta see you hit 80 kills a min. What server?
Sorry didn't notice this thread about farming til now... the red phone that usually flashes must be on the blink if you excuse the pun.
Okay, beginner farming = Fire / Kin / Earth Controller, fight S/L mobs this runs very nicely for starting out as it can farm efficiently on SO's
After IO's I would either invest into a better epic for the controller or switch to a Brute / Scrapper, Blasters and Domi's pretty much have to be top end billion inf builds.
I would not even consider a tank, yes they are survivable but that is not the aim, it's a farm not a PuG team... tanks can kill eventually and although you may feel they are performing, something else will easily out perform it.
Your aim is efficiencey, the one thing that people misunderstand about farming is it's not about killing mobs or surviving them, it's about a steady smooth turnover of kills. Hence why you don't Nuke or herd in farms.
My suggestion to start with is run x8 +2 Battle Maiden warriors on a Fire kin Earth, map the mission first if you are going to be PL'ing... this means you run round the map to fill it up with mobs before inviting your gf's alt as this will mean you won't spawn bosses that you can't handle or will slow you down.
Craft your drops and sell them on the Auction House, people will thank you for the supply and vendor your salvage drops unless you get rare ones.
Don't invite others when you are PLing... although they kill mobs faster they will also sap the xp given, we lost out big time with the new super sidekicking system not being able to get level 46 xp from 50+ mobs, the only way to combat this is to have maps of 8man mobs and only 2 on the map 1 farmer 1 benefitting.
If you have any specific questions feel free to send me a message or if you are on Eu server create a toon on Union for a demo.
Donna x
p.s
Sinisterdirge, if he's farming for drops he's probably running x8 -1 which makes those numbers possible.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Usually when someone starts with a phrase like that, you expect some disagreement to follow.
You do know there are people, that do the ITF in as little as 15 to 16 minutes ? Just as a point of comparison.
Sinisterdirge, if he's farming for drops he's probably running x8 -1 which makes those numbers possible.
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You do know there are people, that do the ITF in as little as 15 to 16 minutes ? Just as a point of comparison.
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So it is decided that farmers don't impact inflation at all then?
I understand what you are saying Another_Fan. However, it is hard to believe that I create less influence solo than I do on a team, as teaming always, always cuts into my infl/time creation.
I'm pretty sure that I gain more inf/minute solo than on a team.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Well the reason I was asking about tankers is cause I don't have any cash on my chars. So I figured as a first time farmer, a resist base set like electric armor would be a great first time farmer. Even more so on a tanker cause hes better defensively while not being THAT far behind in damage. Since I have no money I need a farmer from start to finish without needing billions of money to make them good.
I know I saw a thread about first time farmer maybe a year or a few months ago but I can't find it. I never get good results when I use search. I guess im having a hard time deciding cause I still wanna play the game arcs and such but also be able to farm, so when I hear, "this build is only good for 1 or 2 missions", I fear ill have a hard time leveling up cause I can only play certain missions. And ive also heard lethal and smashing sets lag behind because of resistances. Am I asking to do too much? I play on victory villainside and theres not many people to ask for help or play with from what I can see.
I will remain a soldier until the war is won.
If you want a cheaper farmer to start out, you can roll a SS/WP/Mu Brute. Although, SS/Fire doesn't need that much investment if you fight the right enemy groups.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
To get a brute to the same level of survivability as a tank, you have to invest a LOT into it. But on the same note, a tank with that much invested is going to outsurvive the brute by quite a bit.
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I would also recommend an Elec/SS Tank or a SS/Elec Brute. Yes, Fire has Burn and FE, but Electric will get you closer to making Perma-Hasten, and the closer you can get Foot Stomp to 10 secs or less, the better! And you can just do Freak farms instead of demon ones.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.