Does Fiery Embrace work with Burn?
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2010-10-10 24:39 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Burn works with FE, though I have largely stopped using Burn since they changed it due to it doing less damage to less targets.
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FE I believe counts as pet damage so it will not appear in your combat log unless you put pet damage there. And really not sure why anyone would stop using it after it is improved. It works much better than before with the higher up front damage.
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...seriously? With new Burn I can one-shot all the minions in a spawn and sometimes the Lts. too. Granted, I am using Soul Drain, but still. And that's without FE too, which I don't have yet.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Burn works with FE, though I have largely stopped using Burn since they changed it due to it doing less damage to less targets.
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Well, Burn works with the same number of targets it did before the change. And the same number of targets it has for years. Now, it's true that in the distant past it affected more targets, but that's kind of outside the scope of the OP.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Burn works with FE, though I have largely stopped using Burn since they changed it due to it doing less damage to less targets.
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After some testing I see that Burn adds the FE damage to the initial large pulse (reported in the regular combat log) and does not appear to add it to the DOT patch (reported in the pet damage log). That's okay by me; it's nice to know I am not "wasting" Fiery Embrace time if I hit Burn.
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I also noticed that FE does not show up on the +Dmg I monitor from the combat atributes if that is where you are looking. But I do see the difference on screen with dmg above the enemies head.
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Burn is a pseudopet so you probably need to turn on pet damage display in the combat log, I assume (I haven't checked this myself to be sure).
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Originally Posted by Streeja
I also noticed that FE does not show up on the +Dmg I monitor from the combat atributes if that is where you are looking. But I do see the difference on screen with dmg above the enemies head.
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Fiery Embrace adds it's bonus damage to the initial hit damage from burn, but not to the Damage Over Time effect. It also is a separate damage entry in the combat log, rather than being a modifier to pre-existing damage like most buffs.
Think of it as a "proc" rather than a "buff" and it'll probably be more clear in how it works.
NewBurn is awesome. Increase to target cap would be nice.
Oh and FPARN or whatever :3
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I was lobbying (sorta) for an increased target cap on Burn, but I'm gonna say now that after using it, it's not really needed. I find that the first batch of enemies die pretty fast, then a new batch has room to crowd up on me to stand in the patch themselves. It recycles it's targets pretty fast :P
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Yeah, it recharges pretty fast and does a good chunk of damage on what it hits, so I'd think upping the amount of targets or something like that would overpower it, or call for higher recharge or something like that. Which I'm not sure would be better overall. |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I was lobbying (sorta) for an increased target cap on Burn, but I'm gonna say now that after using it, it's not really needed. I find that the first batch of enemies die pretty fast, then a new batch has room to crowd up on me to stand in the patch themselves. It recycles it's targets pretty fast :P
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I like how fast I'm melting mobs already.
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My lvl 39 F/F Scrapper took burn at 38 added 2 slots at 39 and put oblate io's in it. I like it a lot more then blaze. Between circle an burn I can now easily do +3 player missions solo and take out A group of lt and minions easily. Burn is way underated. I will 6 slot it and pass on blaze.
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If there are more than five minions in a spawn, which is very likely if you're diving headfirst into packed mobs or ambushes, Burn may not kill them all. Of course, I used knockdowns and AoE immobilizes to leverage old Burn on my SS/Fire, so I could be ensured that I was doing as much damage as possible to as many targets as possible.|
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
...seriously? With new Burn I can one-shot all the minions in a spawn and sometimes the Lts. too. Granted, I am using Soul Drain, but still. And that's without FE too, which I don't have yet.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, Burn works with the same number of targets it did before the change. And the same number of targets it has for years. Now, it's true that in the distant past it affected more targets, but that's kind of outside the scope of the OP.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Mac is correct. If you had a method of leveraging old burn it did more damage and would often kill most of a spawn in conjunction with footstomp and fireball.
New burn is better if you lack tools to keep things in it.
Because less people had aoe immobs/kb/stuns compared to those that did, new burn is overall better for more people.
I know when I tried it during beta on my fire/ss/pyre I wasn't impressed with it because it was a noticeable drop in damage against large spawns. However, I imagine it would be a great benefit for toons like dm/fire that lack aoe damage and can now use it as often as they like.
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Interestingly, I think all the target caps work that way. Pedulum, the axe cone attack, is capped at 5 targets, and has a 50% chance of knockdown. |
Originally Posted by macskull
While it's true that the target cap has always been five, that's somewhat misleading for a power that does a hit roll for every tick of damage. The target cap may have been five before the change, but each tick had a chance to hit a different mob, meaning you would often do damage to many more than five targets (assuming you were able to leverage the power effectively).
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In large crowds, uf it's picking out 5 enemies, making a to-hot roll on each, and then making a 50% chance of knockdown on each one, we'd expect to often see fewer than 5 foes hit and usually only 2.5 or so knocked down.
But the actual power in use almost always knocks down 5 enemies if the crowd has substantially more than 5. It behaves as if it's checking 50% knockdown on each guy and just keeps rolling until it collects 5 or runs out of enemies in the crowd, whichever comes first, then stops.
I don't know for sure how it actually works, but it sure looks like that's how it works. The implications seem to be that AoEs will work better than one might expect from their descriptions.
I myself and really liking the new Burn, but the character I'm using it most on has 3 other AoEs and a damage aura, so I am throwing Burn into a chain and not relying on it for all my AoE.
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AoEs definitely work by rolling against all targets in the area until they either reach their target cap or roll against all possible targets. I'm not sure how that interacts with chances, like Pendulum's KD, but Burn or Pendulum in a large crowd will almost always hit its cap.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Interestingly, I think all the target caps work that way. Pedulum, the axe cone attack, is capped at 5 targets, and has a 50% chance of knockdown.
In large crowds, uf it's picking out 5 enemies, making a to-hot roll on each, and then making a 50% chance of knockdown on each one, we'd expect to often see fewer than 5 foes hit and usually only 2.5 or so knocked down. But the actual power in use almost always knocks down 5 enemies if the crowd has substantially more than 5. It behaves as if it's checking 50% knockdown on each guy and just keeps rolling until it collects 5 or runs out of enemies in the crowd, whichever comes first, then stops. I don't know for sure how it actually works, but it sure looks like that's how it works. The implications seem to be that AoEs will work better than one might expect from their descriptions. I myself and really liking the new Burn, but the character I'm using it most on has 3 other AoEs and a damage aura, so I am throwing Burn into a chain and not relying on it for all my AoE. |
It's actually how the chain powers work - they drop an AoE with a target cap of 1, so they roll until they miss everything, then mark that target as unchainable for a couple of seconds. Again, in a crowded area, they almost never miss everything, but they will be "attracted" to creatures with lower defense, as they'll be hit by the AoE attack more of the time.
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It certainly is a great boon for DM/Fire. Burn will recharge twice in Soul Drain's duration (might require Hasten, wasn't paying close attention to that, though I don't have recharge slotted in Burn) which, with SD sufficiently saturated, will pretty much one-shot five targets twice as long as none of those are a boss. Bosses aren't much better off though. Too bad Shadow Maul isn't that awesome of a follow-up, that toon is still too low of a level for Fireball. Or Fiery Embrace. That'd just be overkill.
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Originally Posted by Lolblaws
However, I imagine it would be a great benefit for toons like dm/fire that lack aoe damage and can now use it as often as they like.
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New Burn is amazing either way.
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Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
New-look Burn seems to get the benefit of Build Up...but not Fiery Embrace? Am I seeing that correctly?
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog