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I'm not really sure. I mean, think about the stuff they'd have to do for that. They'd need a new (but simple) structure of some kind in the DB to represent accounts, and something would have to be stored either in our characters or our global account to link them to the bank accounts they had, and (probably most labor intensive) the bank would need some sort of graphical interface. Given how the devs like to do this stuff, they'd also probably create a building or indoor office for us to interact with it (though they IMO could certainly re-use the market or Vault Reserve for that).|
Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
At least i can email to my alts if they do nothing not sure why the cap is such a problem but i think a bank would be best solution to reworking a new cap.
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I'm not saying the bank is a bad idea at all. I just have a hard time imagining it's actually easier than what we're imagining would be needed to change our inf from a 32-bit to a 64-bit number.
What seems likely to me to be the easiest-to-implement suggestion for working around the existing cap was the inf token idea. Of course I'm not sure what's involved in the creation of new "special" salvage items, but they seem to do it pretty regularly these days, so I'm guessing it's relatively simple. Having a merchant where you could buy and cash in the tokens/salvage for (say) 1B is probably simple - it seems to me like it'd just be a standard merchant interface where they had this one item for purchase and sale at (presumably) the same price.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That right there is probably enough of a reason for them to leave it alone. Why go to the trouble of letting us store more inf, then deal with the ensuing outrage from people who haven't a clue about what the inf cap actually does just to make things a bit more convenient for what is ultimately a tiny minority?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I agree. I feel that "benefit" of the inf cap is wishful thinking by folks who think that marketeering is morally objectionable.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
Well, the tiny minority part is what I mean about them probably not considering it worth doing. The ensuing outrage part is sort of what I meant about them not thinking about it, at least objectively.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
That right there is probably enough of a reason for them to leave it alone. Why go to the trouble of letting us store more inf, then deal with the ensuing outrage from people who haven't a clue about what the inf cap actually does just to make things a bit more convenient for what is ultimately a tiny minority?
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I think we know they'll do things that cause moral outrage, at least from what are probably vocal minorities. They just have to think there's a good enough reason to do it. After all, they merged the markets, something that cause quite possibly the purest (in the sense of not being rooted in game balance) of moral outrages I think I've ever seen. What'd it take? From what we were told, it was the realization that maintaining separate markets was becoming a burden on their development time that they could spend on other things.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
The market merger outrage was a case of needing to come up with an RP validation for a game balance change, and some people feeling that the RP validation wasn't good enough. We have the same problem with Ouroboros and AE. We will have the same problem with any gameplay change and addition that the devs feel requires an RP explanation.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think we know they'll do things that cause moral outrage, at least from what are probably vocal minorities. They just have to think there's a good enough reason to do it. After all, they merged the markets, something that cause quite possibly the purest (in the sense of not being rooted in game balance) of moral outrages I think I've ever seen. What'd it take? From what we were told, it was the realization that maintaining separate markets was becoming a burden on their development time that they could spend on other things.
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Raising the inf cap doesn't require an RP explanation, since inf itself is so ambiguous RP-wise. Any explanation would be counter-productive since it would have to narrow down what "inf" is. But considering that the market seems to be the biggest cause of forum drama these days, it seems reasonable to assume that the devs won't go out of their way to do anything that seems to make it easier for ebil marketeers to do their thing.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I would very much disapprove of collecting interest, the game does NOT need more ways to generate inf.
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I don't agree with this at all. There was some of that, certainly, but I feel it misses what appeared to me to be the most vocal and most virulent of opposition to the merger - those who wholeheartedly maintained that merging the market unequivocally violated their RP worldview. There simply was no justification for a merger that these folks would accept, no matter how well framed. To them, the concept of a merger was itself anathema.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The market merger outrage was a case of needing to come up with an RP validation for a game balance change, and some people feeling that the RP validation wasn't good enough.
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In my opinion, the people who were dissatisfied with the RP explanations provided were often voices of moderation. They at least accepted that a merger could be explained to their satisfaction, even if they did not get the satisfaction they would have liked to have seen.
Edit: There were also a couple of people who seemed to have trouble separating the game fiction of playing a villain from real-world consequences, and actively (and seemingly fully seriously) wanted anyone who played a villain to suffer an explicitly inferior gaming experience as punishment for playing a villain. Merging the markets would implicitly improve the experience of market-using villains, and was thus unacceptable under this view.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Yeah, I'm not big on earning interest. A bank as a place to store inf alone I'd be fine with.
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Originally Posted by seebs
I would very much disapprove of collecting interest, the game does NOT need more ways to generate inf.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
having spent far too much time in the bloody trenches of that particular conflict, let me say you are dramatically understating the mania and fervor of the anti-merger RP fanatics.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The market merger outrage was a case of needing to come up with an RP validation for a game balance change, and some people feeling that the RP validation wasn't good enough.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Which is weird to me, 'cuz I'm an RPer at heart, and I found their cover explanation perfectly acceptable. Heck, for a super hero universe, it's really, really, GOOD.
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Those "people's" opinion doesn't count for anything ever, except maybe an occasional laugh, and sometimes causing me to wonder if they do it on purpose. Which kinda brings this thread full circle, doesn't it?|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Edit: There were also a couple of people who seemed to have trouble separating the game fiction of playing a villain from real-world consequences, and actively (and seemingly fully seriously) wanted anyone who played a villain to suffer an explicitly inferior gaming experience as punishment for playing a villain. Merging the markets would implicitly improve the experience of market-using villains, and was thus unacceptable under this view.
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As for the "people" who refuse to accept any RP justification for a merged market, I'm pretty sure they do do it on purpose.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
I only recall one person like this, and thankfully they haven't posted since the merger was announced.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Edit: There were also a couple of people who seemed to have trouble separating the game fiction of playing a villain from real-world consequences, and actively (and seemingly fully seriously) wanted anyone who played a villain to suffer an explicitly inferior gaming experience as punishment for playing a villain. Merging the markets would implicitly improve the experience of market-using villains, and was thus unacceptable under this view.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I for one have no problem storing excess inf on alt toons with catchy names like Imholding1bill and only once have a deleted a toon that was still holding 1 billion inf.
but I guess there are a handful of folks that have north of 400billion and are running out of alts to store it on .
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
There's one reason I'd be very, very cautious about things like raising the inf cap: bugs. I found a bug (July of this year maybe?) that would have let me, over the course of an afternoon, make literally hundreds of billions of inf out of thin air. I'm still not comfortable discussing the details, but there was a thread where people were talking about the last 5 sales for a purple all being some really outsize number like 900,000,908 . That was me, accidentally finding the bug. I reported it over the weekend and the servers came down Monday or Tuesday to fix it.
Point being, if they mess with the C code there's a very large chance of some disasterpiece happening again.
The "1 billion inf gold coins" are a good solution, self contained and unlikely to cascade through the world and destroy kittens and puppies, although I'd try to make them buyable for 1 billion and resellable for 950 million. Cause I'm petty like that.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I don't want to say such caution is misplaced, but it has to apply for every change. While I know it's not likely, they could have caused the problem you're describing making some costume change. They have broken really strange things working on stuff that seems to us to be totally unrelated.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
There's one reason I'd be very, very cautious about things like raising the inf cap: bugs. I found a bug (July of this year maybe?) that would have let me, over the course of an afternoon, make literally hundreds of billions of inf out of thin air. I'm still not comfortable discussing the details, but there was a thread where people were talking about the last 5 sales for a purple all being some really outsize number like 900,000,908 . That was me, accidentally finding the bug. I reported it over the weekend and the servers came down Monday or Tuesday to fix it.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Factor of 10 or 100 more likely when you're making changes to the code itself; factor of 100 more likely when you're making those changes to a LOT of places in the code. This is straight C under the hood; a lot of the advantages of OO are stunted or totally absent here.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I found a bug
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man, why can't I ever find a bug like that! best I ever did was a bug that got me fast day job credit for one job.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Quote:
I'm intimately familiar with the differences, and aware the game is in C. But lets take your example. It seems you were making inf from nothing using the market interface. Do you know they made that possible while changing the market interface? Or were they changing something else that interacted with the market interface to make that bug possible? We'll probably never know.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Factor of 10 or 100 more likely when you're making changes to the code itself; factor of 100 more likely when you're making those changes to a LOT of places in the code. This is straight C under the hood; a lot of the advantages of OO are stunted or totally absent here.
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The point is they could break the game in any of a hundred ways making any change. It would be ridiculous to be afraid of asking for specific changes because those changes might introduce bugs, because any change might cause a bug.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Would you be in favor of raising the inf cap if it could be done in a bug-free manner? I don't think that concern over a buggy implementation should inhibit discussion of the idea.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
There's one reason I'd be very, very cautious about things like raising the inf cap: bugs.
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I'd have no problem with that.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Why not leave the cap alone and just allow players to creat "bank accounts" at a "bank" where the "Vaults" are.
Perhaps if there were tellers there they could "deposit" which is actually a form of email into a Account. The accounts could hold the cap of 2 billion but we could have more than one account. So for my 20 billion i could have 10 accounts.
Also it would be nice if they would pay us interest and there could be badges associated with leaving your deposit in the bank.
Interest could be used to purchase other things like recipies or whatever similar to vanguard merits.
In addition to having a bank you could also figure out ways to Destroy influence with a kind of economy based game (i.e. mini game/gamble house)
example. I bet you that monkey a will beat monkey b in dual at pock d if i win i get X if i loose i loose X plus a house fee for placing bet.
I think the bank part is easier to implement.
At least i can email to my alts if they do nothing not sure why the cap is such a problem but i think a bank would be best solution to reworking a new cap.