Discussion: New Alignment Dev Diary on the City of Heroes Going Rogue website!
By
Avatea,
Posted on: 2010-09-24 11:37 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
So, if all this thought went into the shifting of morality, why is the hero alignment choice the way it is?
It was brought up in Beta, it was brought up on live. The mission that turns you into a hero has you stand by and watch your double get murdered. Then you heroically watch a confessed and convicted hired assassin go on her merry way.
How did this get past the rough draft stage even?
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I just can't understand How this makes any bit of sense. What is heroic about this mission in any way?
The point of a SUPER hero (the way I see it) is wish fulfillment. If we had these powers we could do the ideal situation of saving all lives and removing all threats. This is what heroes should STRIVE for, even if they can't do it due to circumstances. When Silent Blade tries to get away, I imagine grabbing her and yelling where do you think YOU'RE going? and slam her to the ground. Murder is not acceptable behavior in this city, villain!
[EDIT] Here's a suggestion I came up with. Why not swap this mission with the Vigilante one? Just change some text around. Think about it. Killing or passively watching it and letting a killer go seem more suited for a Vigilante. You could go in angry, demanding the PPD explain themselves. On the current Vig moral mission, change it so you are determined to capture Ghost Widow. When Doc Quantum gives you his "moral choice", what if you could play that normally, WITH THE OPTION to find a way to save everyone? Perhaps some branching Dialogue with Ghost Widow can help with that.
Now, you may be thinking saving everyone is contrary to the point of the mission and would make your character a "Mary sue" that can do everything. Well, for one, I think Super heroes again should strive for that, and sometimes succeed. Doc Quantum has had his way in a lot of these missions and it would be nice to have players get the better of him for a change. If you are always being forced to play by this villain's rules with only the outcomes he specifies all the time, then THAT is the Mary Sue character, and it doesn't make any players feel good. (There is a term for this in the AE threads, but I forget what it is.)
The point is, going the extra mile to help save everyone is what "MAKES" a hero. Remember this scene from Batman?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywtorxybzpk
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Is that a backpack I see pictured here:
Backpack?
Thank you for the new system it is a great beginning.
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...huh! Wow, sure looks like it. |
Originally Posted by _Cai_
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SadysCHICK ALL the Badges! (I can get. 1396)
Full image by David Nakayama
Arc ID 1435: Performing without Annette
Arc ID 7206: Sadystic Tendencies
Arc ID 3864: The Chronicles of (In)FERNIA!
And here I thought the "Pit" was something at the end of a G.I.*Joe comic or the Joes's H.Q.
All kidding aside, still a good start to a new chapter of City of*.
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Don't get too excited, it's also on an NPC which doesn't USUALLY bode well for the players. Usually being the key word.
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Originally Posted by _Cai_
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Oh really? Colour me interested...Is that actually true, or did marketting slide that one in?
| delicately editing over six year's worth of existing missions- |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Hmn....however, I've never seen that particular piece worn by any NPC, and also the rest of the char is all PC available, so...what with Maelstrom's working holsters, I think something may, if not finished yet, still be in the imminent works.
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
Don't get too excited, it's also on an NPC which doesn't USUALLY bode well for the players. Usually being the key word.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Not even bank robbers? |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hmn....however, I've never seen that particular piece worn by any NPC
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
A backpack for player characters is nice too.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Well written article overall, I just wish it said something new. Still, it does give a "broader perspective" of what is going on behind the scenes and that is never bad.
As for the backpack, I have to agree with GG (shudder) and say that looks an awful lot like the ones the robbers use in Safeguard missions.
Hmmm, I think general theory is correct and that is the sack o' money the bank robbers go dashing off with.
And spiffy article - so when do we get kitten-kicking as a power? (And that MUST come with outraged-cat-yowling dopplerized sound effect.)
Michelle
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THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
I'm curious as to how they made the missions mostly psychic. Both the Rogue mission for Alpha and the Hero mission for my hero Chief Centurion Z1 have both been so right for the characters it was unbelievable. The Vigilante mission for my Warshade wasn't quite so good, but he's a tricky character anyway.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Probably luck mostly (if it fits your toons so good), but a little bit of skill in writing broadly oriented missions too I would guess. I wondered in the beginning if they had made missions based on character origin types or just ATs, but after running a few for my own toons and for other people's toons, I dumped that idea.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm curious as to how they made the missions mostly psychic. Both the Rogue mission for Alpha and the Hero mission for my hero Chief Centurion Z1 have both been so right for the characters it was unbelievable. The Vigilante mission for my Warshade wasn't quite so good, but he's a tricky character anyway.
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some have been perfect, some i have disliked, occasionally i want a more "good" rogue,but i cant fault them, i am aware that they are playing against type with the anti-villains. or a less overall the job was well done. of course, now that adds another thing that they need to keep updating, because they were well done, we want more.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm curious as to how they made the missions mostly psychic. Both the Rogue mission for Alpha and the Hero mission for my hero Chief Centurion Z1 have both been so right for the characters it was unbelievable. The Vigilante mission for my Warshade wasn't quite so good, but he's a tricky character anyway.
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*kicks the kittten*
as Ood Sigma said....We will sing to you, Doctor. The universe will sing you to your sleep. This song is ending. But the story never ends.
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*punts the puppeh*|
Originally Posted by Cien_Fuegos
*kicks the kittten*
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Anyways, on the topic of the first response, I really don't understand the issue with the Hero Choice Mission. In fact, I don't think Captain Moodswing played the same level 50 alignment mission I played.
In the alignment mission I played, my avatar went to go turn herself into the police. While turning herself in she was attacked by an assassin. After defeating the Assassin, and allowing the assassin to live, my avatar then went after her double.
My avatar fought my double to a standstill, defeating her double as well, and engaged in a parley... allowing the double to live instead of finishing the double.
The villain assassin suddenly struck, killing the double right in front of my avatar, and successfully getting away... showing that my villain adversary was in fact competent in her own way. My avatar also realized that the Assassin probably wasn't even trying in the original fight, having encounted my avatar on my avatar's playing field, rather than the assassin trying to engage me on her playing field.
I'm left with the thoughts that had the assassin engaged me properly, I would be the one that was dead. I'm also left to ponder the implications of my Heroic acts. The fact that I left the assassin alive and that the assassin was able to strike again, is entirely my own fault. Did I ultimately pick the right choice?
The events described here:
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| The mission that turns you into a hero has you stand by and watch your double get murdered. Then you heroically watch a confessed and convicted hired assassin go on her merry way. |
If you think that is what happens, you need to replay the mission and understand the context of the actions that occur. That statement is from somebody that either read about the mission, and didn't actually play the mission; or from somebody who played through the mission, but didn't actually bother reading either the NPC chat, the mission text, or the mission clues.
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I'll be honest, I've played the morality mission three times, read all the text... And am still confused just what the hell happened. Even after your explanation. So what you're saying is that silent blade was the one who killed my double and that's why he suddenly vanishes, and you're saying that supposedly, Silent blade, who's *** I kicked pretty thoroughly was always STRONGER THAN MY CHARACTER AND WAS JUST HOLDING BACK?|
Originally Posted by je_saist
If you think that is what happens, you need to replay the mission and understand the context of the actions that occur. That statement is from somebody that either read about the mission, and didn't actually play the mission; or from somebody who played through the mission, but didn't actually bother reading either the NPC chat, the mission text, or the mission clues.
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The latter statement's highly unacceptable when she's a villain who's been beaten down to the ground by mine and countless other's toons previously in various scenarios.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I agree, the morality missions can be confusing. The Alignment missions though are pretty straightforward at least.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
I'll be honest, I've played the morality mission three times, read all the text... And am still confused just what the hell happened. Even after your explanation. So what you're saying is that silent blade was the one who killed my double and that's why he suddenly vanishes, and you're saying that supposedly, Silent blade, who's *** I kicked pretty thoroughly was always STRONGER THAN MY CHARACTER AND WAS JUST HOLDING BACK?
The latter statement's highly unacceptable when she's a villain who's been beaten down to the ground by mine and countless other's toons previously in various scenarios. |
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well, on my take it seemed disjointed because i had stomped blade pretty handily on the top o the stair landing, so what i saw onscreen was not what was going on. but here is how i saw it, rian and silent blade fought, rian(a scrapper, not relevant to the story but it fit the situation) demolished her in a stand up fight, she fell back to talk to him(my memory of the dialogue is a bit fuzzy) but she largely makes impotent threats about how she will fulfill her contract, nice talk but too beaten down to take action. He's planning on just cuffing her and getting a pizza or 5.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
I'll be honest, I've played the morality mission three times, read all the text... And am still confused just what the hell happened. Even after your explanation. So what you're saying is that silent blade was the one who killed my double and that's why he suddenly vanishes, and you're saying that supposedly, Silent blade, who's *** I kicked pretty thoroughly was always STRONGER THAN MY CHARACTER AND WAS JUST HOLDING BACK?
The latter statement's highly unacceptable when she's a villain who's been beaten down to the ground by mine and countless other's toons previously in various scenarios. |
all of a sudden, a guy who looks like rian comes bolting in the door, rian runs to face him. she, a character skilled at hiding and hitting from the shadows. waits till rian and a self that looks like rian and shares his skills fight at full force, two high level martial artists clash and punishing strikes are given and received. rian wins but is winded, he doesnt notice her, but she figures out from the dialogue who the real deal is, and drops alterna rian, who as the fight has shown, is weaker than hero rian, and then bolts. rian's still heroic, she just did what stalkers do and hit a weakened prey from out of nowhere, and rian, was still collecting his breath after 2 fights. Even a dragon is only human. and she got away with a cheap shot.
one side funny note for me is that the idea that all these clones are running around is that many of my characters are mystical robotic or unique creatures that would seem to be too strange to be cloned by normal procedures. i know that in making those characters i hopped over canon and cant complain, but cloning an angel or a robot seems kinda funny from my perspective.
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That gets kinda old now doesn't it? Hopefully one of these days we'll be getting alot of the costume pieces we've screamed for now forever. |
Originally Posted by PowerStream
Don't get too excited, it's also on an NPC which doesn't USUALLY bode well for the players. Usually being the key word.
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Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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I've played it three times. I've read every word. You just like arguing with me, I think. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
The events described here: That is not what happens. I'm sorry. That is not what happens. If you think that is what happens, you need to replay the mission and understand the context of the actions that occur. That statement is from somebody that either read about the mission, and didn't actually play the mission; or from somebody who played through the mission, but didn't actually bother reading either the NPC chat, the mission text, or the mission clues. |
She tells you "I fullfilled my contract by killing the person named $character." She talks to you afterward. Plenty of time to arrest her.
Let me ask something. Even if the mission can be interpreted your way. How are you turned into a great big hero? By proving you aren't guilty of some trumped up charge? By NOT saving the life of your double? By FAILING to catch the murderer?
SadysCHICK ALL the Badges! (I can get. 1396)
Full image by David Nakayama
Arc ID 1435: Performing without Annette
Arc ID 7206: Sadystic Tendencies
Arc ID 3864: The Chronicles of (In)FERNIA!
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In context, the Dev is referring to editing six year's worth of existing missions so that the NPCs in them don't get confused by the player's alignment and attack when they shouldn't and become allies when they should.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
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Ever wonder about those HERO and VILLAIN designations some of the legacy missions mysteriously got months ahead of GR?
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In terms of shady characters, we could not have a better person to introduce to you than Shawn "Pit" Pitman. While some of you may be familiar with the Pit, so intent as he is on providing information about the alignment system inside the game, his real life avatar also happens to be one of our prolific designers in the City of Heroes® team.
In this very first Dev Diary featured on the Going Rogue website, you will be given an insight into the reasoning behind as well as the ramifications of the Alignment system.
Don't miss this enlightening experience, courtesy of our resident Villain!
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