I was starting to get into PvP around i11-12, then i13 happened and I lost interest.
Emp Blaster combo was OP, people ran away from engagements too rapidly and phased too much.
Ergo, the present system. 
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Yeah, now everyone and their grandmother characters have phase and running away is just as frequent only slower. GJ devs |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Emp Blaster combo was OP, people ran away from engagements too rapidly and phased too much.
Ergo, the present system. |
Going only from limited experience (All post i13) and reading as much as I can:
Mez, travel supression and heal decay I can get behind and understand (I don't have enough experience to know if they got the number right though).
DR I understand (Not the maths!) but here I think they did get the numbers wrong and DR'd stuff too harshly I think which prevented buffing AT's from having much use. Just adjust the DR curves, EXPLAIN them clearly and PvP would probably be ok again. Or maybe add +elusivity into ally buffs, so they work above and beyond DR.
Oh and they might want to do a slight rebalancing of certain powers, yes DPA is a good balancing point, but some powers should be allowed to fall off this rule (IE: Flurry! And most of Ice Blast).
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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so you should be able to get mezzed for 4-8 seconds and be able to do nothing about it? your heals should be doing less and less each time you use it (note: not just self heals) and you (and be extension, the entire game of pvp) should get slowed down evertime your character does anything from using a power to getting hit by a power or popping an insp? |
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Going only from limited experience (All post i13) and reading as much as I can:
Mez, travel supression and heal decay I can get behind and understand (I don't have enough experience to know if they got the number right though). |
I respectfully, disagree with you.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Cool story bro.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Going only from limited experience (All post i13) and reading as much as I can:
Mez, travel supression and heal decay I can get behind and understand (I don't have enough experience to know if they got the number right though). DR I understand (Not the maths!) but here I think they did get the numbers wrong and DR'd stuff too harshly I think which prevented buffing AT's from having much use. Just adjust the DR curves, EXPLAIN them clearly and PvP would probably be ok again. Or maybe add +elusivity into ally buffs, so they work above and beyond DR. Oh and they might want to do a slight rebalancing of certain powers, yes DPA is a good balancing point, but some powers should be allowed to fall off this rule (IE: Flurry! And most of Ice Blast). |
Hows about we take the PvP 2.0 rules and apply them to PvE? And we'll see how quickly you "understand" and "get behind" them at that point.
PvP 2.0 is all fail. Epic huge fail bigger than the rings of Saturn.
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for this one i've always thought they should have just made all buffs not stack even from different sources; although it would have made multiple of the same buffing type useless on a team, it would promote diversity on buffing ats in a team and no more blasters with insane stacks of clear mind or tripple fort
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
DR I understand (Not the maths!) but here I think they did get the numbers wrong and DR'd stuff too harshly I think which prevented buffing AT's from having much use. Just adjust the DR curves, EXPLAIN them clearly and PvP would probably be ok again. Or maybe add +elusivity into ally buffs, so they work above and beyond DR.
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Do the same thing in PvE. PvE is too easy.
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Originally Posted by FluffTrooper
for this one i've always thought they should have just made all buffs not stack even from different sources; although it would have made multiple of the same buffing type useless on a team, it would promote diversity on buffing ats in a team and no more blasters with insane stacks of clear mind or tripple fort
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i wouldn't mind that in pve either really
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Originally Posted by alpha_zulu
pvp 2.0 is all fail. Epic huge fail bigger than the rings of saturn. |
rofl
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That sounds lame.
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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
Do the same thing in PvE. PvE is too easy.
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Oh you are entitled to disagree |
Originally Posted by PC_guy
so you should be able to get mezzed for 4-8 seconds and be able to do nothing about it? your heals should be doing less and less each time you use it (note: not just self heals) and you (and be extension, the entire game of pvp) should get slowed down evertime your character does anything from using a power to getting hit by a power or popping an insp?
I respectfully, disagree with you. |
I am not trying to cause an arguement.But not once have I died as a direct result of a mez (in fact the only thing that annoys me is -jump which seems to last forever) and it certainly doesn't feel like anywhere near 8 seconds (I guess due to resistance). It is certainly better than having to carry breakfrees about all the time.
The heal thing yeah I agree with, one thing I would hate is to follow a toon around watching him get healed all day. You aren't always in a team. Also I did say they might have got the numbers wrong if it decays too badly.
And travel supression is meant to stop people just running away when they see you coming. I didn't feel the fast play of i13 so have nothing to compare it too aside from other games, but it doesn't really feel bad to me.
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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
Cool story bro.
Hows about we take the PvP 2.0 rules and apply them to PvE? And we'll see how quickly you "understand" and "get behind" them at that point. PvP 2.0 is all fail. Epic huge fail bigger than the rings of Saturn. |
As for DR, I think they implemented it wrong - no arguement there - but the idea was to level the playing field and I think it was an ok idea.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Emp blaster was far from OP, honestly.
The mez system was far from perfect, but its flaws were due mostly to melee toons not having a real counter to mez, and to the quick self heals of rad controllers. Either way: just about every issue surrounding mez was only an issue in 1v1s and 2v2s.
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and then most of these people do not come back out of either base until phase/hiber has recharged.|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Yeah, now everyone and their grandmother characters have phase and running away is just as frequent only slower. GJ devs
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Oh you are entitled to disagree
I am not trying to cause an arguement.But not once have I died as a direct result of a mez (in fact the only thing that annoys me is -jump which seems to last forever) and it certainly doesn't feel like anywhere near 8 seconds (I guess due to resistance). It is certainly better than having to carry breakfrees about all the time. The heal thing yeah I agree with, one thing I would hate is to follow a toon around watching him get healed all day. You aren't always in a team. Also I did say they might have got the numbers wrong if it decays too badly. And travel supression is meant to stop people just running away when they see you coming. I didn't feel the fast play of i13 so have nothing to compare it too aside from other games, but it doesn't really feel bad to me. |
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You probably haven't done much organized team PvP, then. The new mez system was practically exploit worthy in team matches.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
But not once have I died as a direct result of a mez |
As for zone PvP, you're basically mezzed 24-7 because of travel suppression, so I can understand it not being as noticeable.
If anything, the new PvP system just greatly lowered the amount of skill it takes to do anything in PvP. Not because said things are easier to do in PvP, but because you can only do them so well with TS, DR, HD, the new mez systems, the way resistance works, the way damage works, ect. A good player can only play to a mediocre level because the system prevents that player from doing any better.
You can be the best player in the world, see a spike coming before the countdown is even called, evade early - do everything perfectly. If you get mezzed for 4 seconds you are still going to die unless the other team is absolutely awful.
You can be a terrible player, not see the spike coming, not evade at all - do everything wrong. You'll die just the same as the good player did if you get mezzed for 4 seconds.
The gripe skilled players had with the new system wasn't the mechanics themselves, it was the way they completely obliterated the margin of skill that existed in "old" PvP. Good teams were mediocre under the new system. Bad teams were also mediocre under the new system. Pretty ******* dumb.
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8 seconds is about how long a hold is that is slotted for hold duration and is backed up by domination. its pretty lame to be immobile for that long which in RV and high end arena, is asking to get AS'd/spiked. also it isn't just about caring break free's, this also made mez protection, completely uselss. the old system might not have been perfect, but this is more broken then that was. at the very least, breakfree's should still work. |
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Oh you are entitled to disagree
I am not trying to cause an arguement.But not once have I died as a direct result of a mez (in fact the only thing that annoys me is -jump which seems to last forever) and it certainly doesn't feel like anywhere near 8 seconds (I guess due to resistance). It is certainly better than having to carry breakfrees about all the time. |
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| And travel supression is meant to stop people just running away when they see you coming. I didn't feel the fast play of i13 so have nothing to compare it too aside from other games, but it doesn't really feel bad to me. |
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| Well PvE is a totally different game since that is more of a stand still and hit buttons thing, so the movement supression isn't even slightly needed, there is at least a reason for it in PvP (Though like I say even though I don't mind it, I am not sure how necessary it was). Same with the heal thing. |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I must say I am actually starting to see your point, not sure if that is a god thing or a bad thing because like I say I don't mind PvP as it is, so I would rather not end up hating it lol.
I play a blaster, but have never done anything organised and stick to RV where I think the most I have seen is 7 v 7 and this is all PuG stuff - no vent servers or anything.
Level of skill wasn't really something I considered since I am probably in the target audience for the i13 changes. I will never really know for certain how much skill is now lost from the pvp game, but if what you say is true then I do feel your pain 
From reading the posts (And I have been trawling the history of the forum for a few days now as well) it even seems the changes made could still have given salvagable pvp if they were just tweaked slightly - like less travel supression, different DR curves so they are no where near as harsh, let BF's work or maybe tweak mez further. That it was kinda just left while nobody was happy is quite sad now :/
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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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i13 PvP
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I really do long for a time when the simpsons was funny.
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Originally Posted by Donna_
i13 PvP
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
As for DR, I think they implemented it wrong - no arguement there - but the idea was to level the playing field and I think it was an ok idea. |
And that's where they ****** it all up. They didn't level the playing field. They made it much worse.
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I dont want to start a argument, just asking a question to see your point.. how as i13 made melee better..?|
Originally Posted by Psyrene
and then most of these people do not come back out of either base until phase/hiber has recharged.
I have to ask do you play a tank/brute/scrapper, if so then of course the i13 changes don't really bother you, helping out melee toons is one of the things it was designed to do, and also you have zero things to base your comparison on since you said you did not PvP prior to i13. |
I use to play melee all the time pre i13 and i13 destroyed the game for me.. before I13 my fire tank could withstand 3 AS and heal back up every 15 sec.. and had enough dmg in his melee attacks to eff everyone up.. furthermore i didnt have to depend on phase or non of that gay stuff..
my invuln scrap rarely saw the hospital.. and survived on aid self along rarely hitting dull pain..
and forget about my wp scap i had fire melee and fear.. no matter who you were if you were on the ground you were getttin burned and nothing besides hittin break frees could help you..
Only thing i feared in pvp back then as a melee toon was EM brutes with high recharge, perma doms, and elude flying forts. other than that everyone was cake.. and if they werent you could always escape..
In this system.. the highest i can get my damage resistant cap is 56.. my heals diminish .. i have a dmg boost but everyone and there moms have shields now.. + any other shields they want to pick up.. plus everyone and there grandmother has phase or hiber or both..
So getting a kill with a melee toon outside of luck/skill or a gank team or a 1vs1 is near imposible.. so i dont get it..
Dont get me wrong i get some kills now.. but its nothing like pre i13...
So how is this better for melee?
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It's not. Pretty much anyone who played a scrapper/tank extensively on test or in the arena will tell you that i13 made melee a lot worse.
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Originally Posted by IronAlex
So how is this better for melee? |
i13 made ALL AT's worse, the FOTM's and the non-FOTM's.
TS is horrid to say the least, if my toon passes gas I get rooted.... Heal Decay makes all but a power boosted emp gimpified.
As for DR, w/o even letting us know the math, so we could possibly ATTEMPT to deal with it, is so fay beyond downycoded it cannot even be conveyed here. I woud like a shot at conveying the frustration it has created to the devs, but they won't allow me to meet with them in person while I carry a large spiked bat.
@bl0t
Why does it have to be all this complicated system that devs thought was better?
We just need health, damage. we dont need DR we dont need suppression we dont need decay we dont need crap else
just health and damage and the normal hold/immob/stun resist system that worked so well.
I played alot of pvp back in issue 11-12 (back when powersets actually did what they were supposed to, attacks dealed damage etc.) leading up to i13 when they changed it all and I really don't remember any of us wanting this change I don't remember any complaints about pvp at all....
They took upon themselves to THINK that a change was needed? so many companys seem to do this.... just randomly change gameplay in the exact opposite way that people want.