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Looking for advice for picking a ranged character

Amy_Amp

By Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-09-11 20:27 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysmal View Post
Well sure, but Rad's heal is also weaker, and isn't also a to hit debuff, damage debuff and regen debuff. So, six of one, half a dozen of the other, fairly balanced.
Yeah, except Rad is significantly better than Dark at debuffing regen, and just about on par at damage debuffing. Dark is better at to-hit debuffing, I'll give you that.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
Yeah, except Rad is significantly better than Dark at debuffing regen, and just about on par at damage debuffing. Dark is better at to-hit debuffing, I'll give you that.
also with dark you don't have to worry about teammates killing your anchors.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
Yeah, except Rad is significantly better than Dark at debuffing regen, and just about on par at damage debuffing. Dark is better at to-hit debuffing, I'll give you that.
You are also completely discounting Dark having a ranged Fear cone that has sizable tohit for negating alphas. And when you take Dark Servant into account, Dark is better in -dmg.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
also with dark you don't have to worry about teammates killing your anchors.
But with dark you don't get to explode your dead teammates.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
3 Doms 0 melee powers. As far as I'm concerned, giving dominator and blasters melee powers was the single dumbest thing the devs have ever done and I am including the i13 PvP crap in this statement. Do scrappers and tanks have ranged attack secondaries? No. So why isn't there a pure ranged offense AT?

I made my own via make believe that the melee attacks don't exist.

Edit:
Let me rephrase this bit to be... Making Doms and Blasters mixed melee/ranged and thereby having no option at all exist for an all rage offensive character was the bad Idea. I do think it is good to have the option for mixed melee/range. But just skipping the melee powers I am gimping myself, especially considering the higher damage modifier for melee on both blasters and dom. Frustrates me because I want to build an optimized character, but I also don't want to be forced to use melee to be optimal. I'd like that choice added.

@Streeja, I know there is a place for melee doms. I'm not saying there isn't. But I specifically want an all offense ranged character. Corrs and defenders are far behind blasters and doms in damage output on any build I've seen and half the powers aer buff/debuff so agin I have to gimp myself to build what I want. Controllers are the same, loaded with buff/debuff powers. VEATS and HEATS are both designed to mix it up between ranged and melee. There does not exist the option to play an all ranged assault character unless you deliberately ignore your highest damage attacks, or unless you play a mixed attack/buff-debuff. I want the equivalent of a scrapper with ranged attacks. Just one. either side. Hell give me even one dominator or blaster secondary with no melee and no PBAoE powers and I'll be happy. Just one. (Devices is dang close).
A fortunata built widow can be basically all ranged without sacrificing much in the way of the "highest damage" attacks.

Most blaster PRIMARIES have at least one or two powers that require you getting at least somewhat close to your targets, namely the big damage ST attacks like blaze, BIB, and ExShot, most cone attacks (@ 40' for most), and most nukes which PBAoE.

My current experiment is an AR/Energy blaster without taking the melee attacks, short of power thrust which is mandatory, but helpful in sticking to range. So far he's turning out pretty darn good...AoE monster that he is. Redraw? Sure...but such is the price i pay. BU+Flamethrower+Buckshot+M30 Grenade is just beautiful. Can't wait till BU+Boost Range+Full Auto+M30 Grenade.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
Yeah, except Rad is significantly better than Dark at debuffing regen, and just about on par at damage debuffing. Dark is better at to-hit debuffing, I'll give you that.
Well, yeah, EMP does some big -Regen, but then you get an end crash. Howling Twilight and Lingering Rad are equivalent Regen debuffs if I'm reading City of Data correctly, and then Dark has the heal and the pet spamming the heal as well.

So it is a little more complex.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysmal View Post
Well, yeah, EMP does some big -Regen, but then you get an end crash. Howling Twilight and Lingering Rad are equivalent Regen debuffs if I'm reading City of Data correctly, and then Dark has the heal and the pet spamming the heal as well.

So it is a little more complex.
LR can be perma-ed pretty easily. HT can't.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysmal View Post
Well, yeah, EMP does some big -Regen, but then you get an end crash. Howling Twilight and Lingering Rad are equivalent Regen debuffs if I'm reading City of Data correctly, and then Dark has the heal and the pet spamming the heal as well.

So it is a little more complex.
Yeah except...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
LR can be perma-ed pretty easily. HT can't.
This

 

Posted

Forgot about Howling Twilight. Dark Miasma has a better rez than Rad. But although the sets do similar things, they don't do the exact same things and so really it's just a playstyle preference. Both are awesome!

Oh and team stealth. Dark Miasma has that too.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
It is the way to go.

You know how people keep talking about how great Fire/Dark Corruptors are? Fire/Rad can do everything they do better
Nope, can you:

Set difficulty at +2x8

Zip ahead with super speed, paint a boss with Darkest night - zip back 2 or 3 groups - wait around a corner for them all to arrive - drop tarpit, use fear to freeze them all and howling twilight to stun all minions and then Rain of fire and fireball to destroy all of them except the completely debuffed Bosses?

Nope.

You can do similar things but you lack the group stun of Howling twilight and the tarpit slow.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
LR can be perma-ed pretty easily. HT can't.
I don't need it permanent.

I have it ready for every huge group I gather. In a team I drop tarpit at the first group we engage and zip forward to paint darkest night on one 2 groups forward. I then run back drop tarpit again and as the group finishes the first group the next 2 groups show up.

I fear them once on the tarpit, hitting howling and drop RoFire on them. I then zip off and get the NEXT 2 groups, repeat as necessary.

Solo?

I herd FORWARD and defeat the aggro cap by herding 2 groups near a 3rd. I then switch back and forth attacking both groups and as the minions fall I jump back and forth and when those 3 are dead (at +2x8) Howling is up again.

I have both and the rad is good but the dark is much safer and in fact better as a tank than almost any tank in the game is a Cold/Dark corruptor. He can do all the above + Freezing rain, Snow storm and Blizzard.

 

Posted

Debating Dark versus Rad is like debating your favorite ice cream, or pizza. In the end it's still ice cream, or pizza you are talking about.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades View Post
Nope, can you:

Set difficulty at +2x8

Zip ahead with super speed, paint a boss with Darkest night - zip back 2 or 3 groups - wait around a corner for them all to arrive - drop tarpit, use fear to freeze them all and howling twilight to stun all minions and then Rain of fire and fireball to destroy all of them except the completely debuffed Bosses?
I solo +4/x8 spawns regularly on my Fire/Rad, doing +2's would be a step back.

I've also been known to solo pretty much every GM out there (including Lusca) with my rads, which dark can't do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades View Post
You can do similar things but you lack the group stun of Howling twilight and the tarpit slow.
Rad has Choking Cloud (which can be used more often than HT, since it's a toggle) and the slow from Lingering Radiation is better than Tar Pit's (since it also does -rech)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
Debating Dark versus Rad is like debating your favorite ice cream, or pizza. In the end it's still ice cream, or pizza you are talking about.



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Posted

Fire dark works because of tarpatch and the hefty -acc in fearsome stare. Rads toggles are great, but with nothing to lock them down the spawns split, especially with castles "needz moar run" Ai adjustments.

IF you dont build with loadsa Def, spawns just shoot you....alot....and the odd mez drops your RI and shoot you even harder despite LR slowing them down...sorta. Lingering Rad is great, but with 8+ mobs shooting at you, it seems -rech isnt all that great.

tarpatch+fearsome is still slowing them down alot and destroying thier acc
heck, Fearsome stare first, then drop Tarpatch. Since tarpatch isnt technically an attack(according to fear rules) you can now do something else like pop reds or hit aim.....then attack.

Its time Heals drew agro.....time to duff ova some of those pansy healtards.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak View Post
Fire dark works because of tarpatch and the hefty -acc in fearsome stare. Rads toggles are great, but with nothing to lock them down the spawns split, especially with castles "needz moar run" Ai adjustments.
Thank god for Web Envelope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak View Post
IF you dont build with loadsa Def, spawns just shoot you....alot....and the odd mez drops your RI and shoot you even harder despite LR slowing them down...sorta. Lingering Rad is great, but with 8+ mobs shooting at you, it seems -rech isnt all that great.
You don't need lots of def, but it's nice to have some. A fully slotted RI does roughly -20% tohit debuff to a +4 enemy (after resistances), so you'd only need 25% to be softcapped (or two small purples) against them.

-Rech means that if the alpha doesn't kill you (which rarely does) in the first few seconds, you're not gonna die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Freak View Post
tarpatch+fearsome is still slowing them down alot and destroying thier acc
heck, Fearsome stare first, then drop Tarpatch. Since tarpatch isnt technically an attack(according to fear rules) you can now do something else like pop reds or hit aim.....then attack.
Different methods to accomplish the same results, only that (IMO) rad can achieve better results.

I'm not saying Dark isn't a formidable set, I'm just saying that (from my personal experience) Rad is better IMO.

 

Posted

I think Rad is a bit more versatile esp. if you are willing to sit on the foes with choking cloud. AM is a great all around team buff and Dark doesn't have anything like it. I think Dark is safer with the ability to stay at range and post 32/38, double healing and double to-hit debuffing with you and dark servant.

I think it's really hard to objectively say one is always better. I have played both to 50 and rank them both in my top 5 and probably top 3 of the buff/debuff sets in CoX. My main is a Fire/Rad controller and I am doing Dark Miasma again to 50, on a Corruptor this time (having done a MM and a Defender).

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBeaudway View Post
I think Rad is a bit more versatile esp. if you are willing to sit on the foes with choking cloud. AM is a great all around team buff and Dark doesn't have anything like it. I think Dark is safer with the ability to stay at range and post 32/38, double healing and double to-hit debuffing with you and dark servant.

I think it's really hard to objectively say one is always better. I have played both to 50 and rank them both in my top 5 and probably top 3 of the buff/debuff sets in CoX. My main is a Fire/Rad controller and I am doing Dark Miasma again to 50, on a Corruptor this time (having done a MM and a Defender).
It's hard to argue with this, I've played several Rad characters; Rad/Rad defender, Ill/Rad & Fire/Rad controllers to 50 and Rad/Sonic defender to 35. I've also played a Dark/Dark defender to 50 and am currently leveling a Fire/Dark corrupter; level 31 as of last night so I know both sets pretty well.

Dark in my experience is the safer set with it's rather extreme tohit debuffing but it's somewhat slower off the mark; a Rad can toss out EF, RI and LR on a group faster than a Dark can toss Fearsome Stare, Tar Patch and Darkest Night. The Dark has better control though and has less problem with mob scatter thanks to FS and TP.

Speaking of Dark's debuff ability, I figured up my Dark/Dark defender's tohit debuff and found that I can fairly easily maintain a -70% tohit debuff on a spawn and just under -100% on a single target before I consider Fluffy's contribution. That much debuffage covers a lot of sins.

Oh, the debuff works out:
Darkest Night - 29.3%
Fearsome Stare - 18.8%
Tentacles - 13.5%
Nightfall - 9.3%
Total AOE debuff - 70.9%

Single target sustainable debuff:
Twilight Grasp - 6.25%
Dark Blast - 9.38%
Gloom - 9.38%
Total single target debuff - 25%
Total debuff - 95.9% not counting Dark Servant

Just for giggles, adding Fluffy's numbers:
Aura, Chill of the Night - 45% debuff
Darkest Night, when he uses it - 22.5%
Twilight Grasp, when he uses it - 7.5%
Tentacles, again when he uses it - 7.5%

You're getting into serious debuffage here. I've slotted for the debuffs on both my powers and Fluffy, but even the base values are significant.

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Posted

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
3 Doms 0 melee powers. As far as I'm concerned, giving dominator and blasters melee powers was the single dumbest thing the devs have ever done and I am including the i13 PvP crap in this statement. Do scrappers and tanks have ranged attack secondaries? No. So why isn't there a pure ranged offense AT?

It's fine that you dislike taking the melee attacks, but calling it the single dumbest thing since i13? That's just silly.

A great deal of us really enjoy having the melee attacks. They synergize well with some sets better then range. For instance, Elec/Earth Doms. Or Rad/Fire Blasters.

Most doms can be fine with just ranged attacks, same with blasters. The melee options are there for those who want to use them.