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Originally Posted by GreenFIame
I never had any problems with my Stalker, The Hit point thing is there weak point and that fine we all can't be invincible all the time.
Stalkers Should Always be in hide, you go up to the bad guys, Assassin Strike and hit Placate and Attack again and repeat. I don't no Why everyone think Stalkers are like Scrappers and Brutes are like Tankers, you can't compare them together. There nothing wrong with there Defense or Resistance, Hide is part of there Defensive in battle and Junk Sloted it better. You pretty much get hide to Start off with in this game, if it give you an Option to have it when first creating him or her, take it as soon as Possible. However I will agree with the AS Uninterrupted Part I agree Again dude there nothing wrong with Stalker Secondary, never had an issue yet, Maybe you need to learn more about how Stalkers really work. Stalker Damage is Amazing once you Assassin Strike people, Sloted well will take out a yellow Color Foe, that how you play your Stalker by Stealth not by how other Melee's type of toons do things. |
Dude your hilarious.
"Stalker is damage is amazing once you get assassin strike".
Thank you. Im sure NONE of the stalker players here, who have been playing stalkers for YEARS, have EVER gotten to level *6*.
I've been playing my Kin/Dark Stalker a lot lately.
I am currently in love with BU + Burst and since I run teams all the time on freedom, I rarely use BU + AS. The only time I use AS is after the alpha is over and I see a lonely boss.
They can really cut down AS's activation time IMO for pve purpose.
In fact, after I fully slot my Concentrated Strike, I use Assassin even less.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I take it mob by mob, and depending on the team. AS is pretty nice for mitigating an alpha for a team, and also can help eliminate some nasty targets in a mob fast, and better than using some other attacks. I also try to run into mobs ahead of the team so I can make the choice as well. Pretty much all the melee ATs benefit from getting into a mob fast, so I have that tendency with all my characters.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
I don't even bother with AS on teams. I wouldn't want to waste precious crit chances aiming an AS at a dead body. Opening up with an AoE, assuming you have one, is good, especially when you see 3 or 4 crits happen as a result. (<3 burst!)
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Dual Blades for stalkers takes the mitigation of an alpha to another level with Sweep (Build up--->AS--->Ablating strike). When on teams with my DB stalker, I feel like I am helping with the killing speed of the team while protecting them from massive alphas or even ambushes that end up hitting the floor due to sweep.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I take it mob by mob, and depending on the team. AS is pretty nice for mitigating an alpha for a team, and also can help eliminate some nasty targets in a mob fast, and better than using some other attacks. I also try to run into mobs ahead of the team so I can make the choice as well. Pretty much all the melee ATs benefit from getting into a mob fast, so I have that tendency with all my characters.
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On my KM/EA, there are some mobs that get AS'd, even if Burst would do more damage from hide. Typically, they're the ones that have AoE debuffs (such as Spectral lts or Tsoo Sorcerers) or are just plain annoying (Death Shamans).
On my ElM/Nin I'll just LR into the group next to them and AS them anyway. 
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Again, I wouldn't get too attached to the 100% crit on Burst. I'm enjoying it myself too but I don't wanna be sad if/when it goes. It's sort of mitigated by my enjoying the AS animation so I still have to choose which to start a battle.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
I've been playing my Kin/Dark Stalker a lot lately.
I am currently in love with BU + Burst and since I run teams all the time on freedom, I rarely use BU + AS. The only time I use AS is after the alpha is over and I see a lonely boss. They can really cut down AS's activation time IMO for pve purpose. In fact, after I fully slot my Concentrated Strike, I use Assassin even less. |
This could be off-topic but I took out my lvl 50 Blood Widow build (follow up, double Assault, and no mental powers) tonight to run some +4 x 6 mission against Longbows (Villain tip). Longbows at +4 and with warden can be very very hard. Those sonic grenades can end you life so fast after all the debuffs.
Anyway, I brought up Blood Widow because she makes my Stalker looks so weak that's all. I know I haven't really IOed my stalkers but I forgot how strong night widows are.
Not sure if Night Widow should be the base-line for Stalker's performance on a team but yeah, Stalker still needs more help IMO.
I couldn't make up my mind if Stalker REALLY needs help. Well, I've been playing mostly my Kin/Dark Stalker and while Burst is good (broken), Stalker's damage is really not that high. Or is Night Widow's damage too high and too fast? Lunge and Slash have crazy high Damage Per activation.
Ugh.. not sure what I am talking about here. It's late 1:17am. I just finished that +4 x 6 Longbow mish with NW and she makes my stalker feel so small.... maybe a well invested Stalker is a lot different but I know my NW also brings good buffs for the team. Conclusion, I think Stalker still comes up a bit short and I think mostly in damage department. I've teamed with some Tankers and man, can they survive crazy well. I just can't say the same for my Stalker "man, my damage is so crazy high!". I feel my damage is good but not crazy good. This AT should have the highest melee damage IMO either during short or long fights.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
On my Elec/Ninjitsu and my Spines/Ninjitsu:
I never open with AS.
Spines-> Hidden throw spines, Spine burst, Placate Throw Spines.
Elec---> Hidden Lightning Rod, Hidden Ball Lightning, Placate, Thunderstrike.
Generally for bosses, I chain them along during the mission and kill them with incidental AOE damage.
If there is a single hard target I may use a BU AS, Some other attack Placate AS (I can just barely get two AS in one BU cycle :P).
Honeslty Assassin Strike takes a back seat on my builds, and I just use it for set bonuses mostly. Just not a worthwhile power to me.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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I hope instead they say "let's give all sets with an AOE or Cone a 100% chance from hide crit" instead of taking away Burst's.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Again, I wouldn't get too attached to the 100% crit on Burst. I'm enjoying it myself too but I don't wanna be sad if/when it goes. It's sort of mitigated by my enjoying the AS animation so I still have to choose which to start a battle.
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Or keep it as a feature of Burst. A lot of times on teams, I just find it better to open with burst for the crits and chance for knockdown, than an AS.
Even placating and then a Burst for the same effect.
Makes for an enjoyable experience.
Do I AS or Burst!? Choices!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I tend to think this has to be some kind of experiment. If the 100% crit chance was a simple oversight then it was pointed out with plenty of time early enough in beta that they could have fixed it any number times. It can't be that hard to change one line in a database entry somewhere.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I hope instead they say "let's give all sets with an AOE or Cone a 100% chance from hide crit" instead of taking away Burst's.
Or keep it as a feature of Burst. |
So I figure they are going to watch and see how much it contributes to Stalker damage. Whether it ends up being overpowered or not. And if that looks good yeah, maybe they will up the chances on other Stalker AoEs. But it has to be all or nothing or it's not really fair.
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Well, there was a post in beta by Castle about it not being intended and to expect a change, but if the fix truly is in the pipeline, it's certainly taking its sweet time in coming - the patch on test today still has a 100% critical on Burst.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I never quite understand how fixes come through the pipeline, to be honest. Sometimes him or BAB say they fixed something and it shows up fast. Other times, it takes forever. And I'm not talking about those times where there were months between builds, I mean actual amount of builds.
And then changes aren't always in the notes, too. I sometimes wonder how well they keep track of things.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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We'll choose to disagree on that. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing that on all Stalker AOEs. I never liked that AOEs didn't have a 100% chance to crit from hide.|
Originally Posted by Zem
I tend to think this has to be some kind of experiment. If the 100% crit chance was a simple oversight then it was pointed out with plenty of time early enough in beta that they could have fixed it any number times. It can't be that hard to change one line in a database entry somewhere.
So I figure they are going to watch and see how much it contributes to Stalker damage. Whether it ends up being overpowered or not. And if that looks good yeah, maybe they will up the chances on other Stalker AoEs. But it has to be all or nothing or it's not really fair. |
But I think it can be given to one set as a feature (even if accidental) and not the others and be fair.
That said, I'd just rather see it given to all stalkers. If they're the burst damage specialists, let them decide between that single target nuke or 100% AOE crits!
Both mean additional burst damage!
What I think this would hurt, is MA and EM, who lack any sort of AOE/Cone.
This could easily be fixed on EM by putting Whirling Hands put into Stuns place.
Claws' Eviserate got turned from a Cone into a ST attack, so I don't see this as breaking the cottage rule, as WH would continue to allow stun enhancement.
MA on the other hand would lose out most likely. :/
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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patch note accuracy falls under someone else's job IIRC
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I never quite understand how fixes come through the pipeline, to be honest. Sometimes him or BAB say they fixed something and it shows up fast. Other times, it takes forever. And I'm not talking about those times where there were months between builds, I mean actual amount of builds.
And then changes aren't always in the notes, too. I sometimes wonder how well they keep track of things. |
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We can only hope. Honestly though, I think my Elec and Spines stalkers would be too good >_> but I'll take it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I hope instead they say "let's give all sets with an AOE or Cone a 100% chance from hide crit" instead of taking away Burst's.
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IMO, the current 100% crit on Burst is good compensation for the static 20% chance to recharge BU on CS.
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That's what I thought to. CS doesn't do more damage, and it's crit range doesn't increase on a team.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
We can only hope. Honestly though, I think my Elec and Spines stalkers would be too good >_> but I'll take it.
IMO, the current 100% crit on Burst is good compensation for the static 20% chance to recharge BU on CS. |
If they took away the 100% crit, would they give the increased crit for teaming on CS that it lacks?
If the answer is no. I think it's fair to call Burst 100% crit, a Kin Melee feature.
If they find it works for all the other sets too, more power to the other sets! \o/
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I think our base is fine where it is now. I think the cap should be raised, but not to scrapper levels. Bring it up to about 1900 or 2000. Stalkers, it's true, are not Scrappers...but they should be tougher than BLASTERS.|
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
1) The same base hitpoints and HP cap as Scrappers.
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Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
2) Make Hide an inherent power, similar to Domination, thus allowing missing 9th powers to be re-inserted into these Stalker secondaries. There's no reason why Stalkers should be deprived of Quick Recovery, Death Shroud, etc as an option.
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Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
3) Make AS uninterruptable.
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Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
4) Specifically for Energy Aura, replace Repulse with Dampening Field. This isn't even a Cottage Rule issue - a knockback aura is anti-thematic to any melee AT, as demonstrated by it's absence from Brute EA.
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Raise the HP cap. No other changes ought to be necessary. Although I have a feeling Castle is going to come up with something cooler.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Yeah... I agree. I think the 20% "instant build up" feature is pretty weak because nobody would really use placate + CS except for testing the feature and a lot of times my build up is already recharged. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
That's what I thought to. CS doesn't do more damage, and it's crit range doesn't increase on a team.
If they took away the 100% crit, would they give the increased crit for teaming on CS that it lacks? If the answer is no. I think it's fair to call Burst 100% crit, a Kin Melee feature. If they find it works for all the other sets too, more power to the other sets! \o/ |
I think the 100% critical in Burst is a good feature for Kin! Hey, at least it's team friendly which Stalker needs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Why would they do that? They gave it the Build Up refresh in place of the crit. There is nothing to compensate until someone proves that the Build Up refresh is itself lacking.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
If they took away the 100% crit, would they give the increased crit for teaming on CS that it lacks?
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Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Okay, Total Focus does a bit more damage than CS, gets only 30% of it's damage to crit, but also increases it's chance to crit when teamed.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Why would they do that? They gave it the Build Up refresh in place of the crit. There is nothing to compensate until someone proves that the Build Up refresh is itself lacking.
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Eagle's Claw, does a bit less damage than CS, but gets a full crit on it's damage, while at the same time gets an increased chance to crit when teamed.
CS doesn't do extra damage when it crits, instead it recharges build up, but it's a static 20%.
Now, I like the insta BU recharge gimmick. Seeing CS crit three times ina row for lots of BU usage is great. But Ive also seen where I didn't crit on CS for 10 straight uses (in a chain btw...not just straight uses of CS).
So why is it, that CS's crit rate has to stay static when teamed, just because it's double damage on a crit is replaced with insta BU recharge?
Now mind you, I'd likely continue playing the set without Burst having a 100% crit from hide, and CS's crit stayed static.
But that doesn't mean I like what they did (mind you, I think Total Focus should do a full crit, instead of 30% of it's damage)
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Well, I've been playing Kin stalker a lot lately and unless you pay closely attention to Build Up power icon, you can barely notice the feature is there. The only time I know it's there is when I do Placate + CS. Now we can debate whether that is more beneficial than Placate + Burst (more aoe damage) or Placate + Assassin Strike (even harder ST damage) but in most cases, this instant build up feature is not that practical. |
Originally Posted by Zem
Why would they do that? They gave it the Build Up refresh in place of the crit. There is nothing to compensate until someone proves that the Build Up refresh is itself lacking.
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I've seen people who put Build Up or Aim on "auto cast". I find that so wasteful. Maybe this instant recharge is better for those that set it on auto.
I don't know about you but how many Build Up do you normally use in a spawn? I normally only use once and then save it for next spawn. To me, this feature doesn't matter to me at all. It may matter when I am facing a Hero but the chance is still only 20% and Kin's build up has the longest activation at 1.9s?
Overall, this instant build up sounds good on paper but not so practical in most situations. This is ok because Kin has many other good attacks. If we are losing Siphon Power system, then I would much prefer 100% critical from Burst. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I agree with this. Unless you're hitting BU whenever it's recharged, some of this feature will be wasted. It's a DPS feature on a Burst damage ability in place of a Burst damage feature (i.e. critical damage on CS).|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I've seen people who put Build Up or Aim on "auto cast". I find that so wasteful. Maybe this instant recharge is better for those that set it on auto.
I don't know about you but how many Build Up do you normally use in a mob? I normally only use once and then save it for next spawn. To me, this feature doesn't matter to me at all. It may matter when I am facing a Hero but the chance is still only 20% and Kin's build up has the longest activation at 1.9s? Overall, this instant build up sounds good on paper but not so practical in most situations. This is ok because Kin has many other good attacks. If we are losing Siphon Power system, then I would much prefer 100% critical from Burst. :P |
Probably won't ever outstretch Power Siphon's boost, that's for sure, but I'll keep it. I guess if I'm up against a hard target, this set would be better served to just keep hitting BU and meleeing it out and when you're out of BU and CS is recharging? Hit placate and AS then keep going.
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Minor nitpick: Total Focus does the exact same base damage, of the same types, as Concentrated Strike - the 30% quoted critical is close enough (it's scale 1 of 3.56 for roughly 28.09%) that I'm only commenting on it so someone doesn't point out that I didn't correct it while I was being nitpicky enough to mention that the two powers do the same damage instead of TF doing more.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay, Total Focus does a bit more damage than CS, gets only 30% of it's damage to crit, but also increases it's chance to crit when teamed.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I agree it's wasteful. Heck, I've seen melee types with their self-heals on auto. Just not a smart thing to do. Still, I don't think you need to have it on auto to get a lot out of this recharge feature in CS. Just get in the habit of punching BU whenever you think it might be a good time. e.g. Right before a second Burst in a long fight. Rather than try to monitor its status, just punch it. Maybe you get a BU. Maybe you don't.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I've seen people who put Build Up or Aim on "auto cast". I find that so wasteful. Maybe this instant recharge is better for those that set it on auto.
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In fact, this is probably not a bad idea in general for any Stalker. I know I am guilty of "saving" BU for "the right time" and I end up not using it probably nearly as often as I should. Because I want to always have it ready for that first strike, I avoid using it when I still have plenty of time in a fight to get full value out of it.
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1) Less hitpoints and lower HP cap than any other melee AT.
2) One defensive power removed from each secondary.
3) Interruptable AS.
Fortunately some buffs occurred to the AT (increased damage scale, more crits, some cool AS aftereffects if the target survives, endurance-free Hide, etc) which helped, but those big whoppers above still remain. And I'm okay with losing an AoE attack for primary power sets, to make room for AS. And Placate in place of Taunt is just fine. Here is what I think would help the Stalker become more competitive with the other melee AT's:
1) The same base hitpoints and HP cap as Scrappers.
2) Make Hide an inherent power, similar to Domination, thus allowing missing 9th powers to be re-inserted into these Stalker secondaries. There's no reason why Stalkers should be deprived of Quick Recovery, Death Shroud, etc as an option.
3) Make AS uninterruptable. It's not the most effective single target attack in battle, because of how the damage is reduced, but it's still a nice option to use. Most sets which have a second AoE, or even only one AoE, can fire the power off at any time, even though those generally are similarly not that effective as single target attacks.
4) Specifically for Energy Aura, replace Repulse with Dampening Field. This isn't even a Cottage Rule issue - a knockback aura is anti-thematic to any melee AT, as demonstrated by it's absence from Brute EA.
I think less base and potential HP, missing powers, and our lack of AoE aren't suitably compensated by the ability to Hide and Assassinate.
Stalkers Should Always be in hide, you go up to the bad guys, Assassin Strike and hit Placate and Attack again and repeat.
I don't no Why everyone think Stalkers are like Scrappers and Brutes are like Tankers, you can't compare them together.
There nothing wrong with there Defense or Resistance, Hide is part of there Defensive in battle and Junk Sloted it better.
You pretty much get hide to Start off with in this game, if it give you an Option to have it when first creating him or her, take it as soon as Possible.
However I will agree with the AS Uninterrupted Part I agree
Again dude there nothing wrong with Stalker Secondary, never had an issue yet, Maybe you need to learn more about how Stalkers really work.
Stalker Damage is Amazing once you Assassin Strike people, Sloted well will take out a yellow Color Foe, that how you play your Stalker by Stealth not by how other Melee's type of toons do things.
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