All they need to do is eliminate the stupid 30Ft Leash on the team critical buff.
That's enough for me, as stalkers would consistantly do more damage (how ever slight) than scrappers when teamed.
Since teamed is the only place stalkers are lacking.
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Stalkers should also have debuff/control on top of defense and damage. Setting up stuff to weaken/confuse/limit an enemy has long been a thief role in stories and gaming.
The fear and -to-hit in AS was a good start. Bruising is the type of concept that stalkers need, although on a grander scale.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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In my opinion, correcting this through game balance is going to be impossible.|
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
But surely this has to be important to others. I can't be the only one to think there's something wrong with that. If you're a Stalker and you want to get on a team, it's likely going to be harder than it is with other AT's. If there is one spot left and there is a Brute and a Stalker vying for that position, does anyone realistically think the Stalker is going to get in?
Popularity and desirability have always been issues for Stalkers. And while the AT has been buffed a few times since release, these problems still exist. I just believe that factors like base and max HP, and incomplete secondaries are issues here. I would say, ideally, that I'd like to also see AS as interruptable, but no doubt others might disagree. And that's fine. |
I think that Stalkers as an AT have one strong balance gripe - they are a damage dealing AT that most of the powersets have severely restricted AoE damage in a game where a lot of people recognize that AoE is a big deal. IMO, most everything else that people say the AT has "going against" it is either in the noise (the numerical "problem" isn't really that significant) or a matter of preference.
But we're left with this public perception that the AT isn't desirable, in a way that I think goes beyond the valid balance concerns. I think that's a mix of the AoE thing (which has some validity), leftover distaste over how the AT used to work before it got some buffs, and the fact that no one needs any specific melee damage AT. In general, it really doesn't matter what AT you pick for melee damage, but there's this one AT with some problems and a lingering aftertaste, so who's going to get left out?
Let's be serious. Does anyone ever look for a Kheldian for their team? How about a Mastermind outside the BSF? While I don't think it's a pervasive issue, let's think back to the posts with people claiming they'd never take a Defender on their team if a Controller was available. I think being odd-man-out on teams isn't somehow unique to the Stalker AT.
I do think Stalkers have some legitimate, lingering problems. I do think the Scrapper/Brute discussions in the I18 Beta highlighted them well. I don't think addressing them will be easy barring making them more "Scrapper like". I really don't think looking at how often the AT gets invited to teams is the right basis for identifying the problems, or for coming up with ways to address them, because I think an awful lot of things that have nothing to do with real "balance" are tied up in that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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I like the weaken/confuse/control that stalkers can bring. Its fits in well where brute strength isn't always needed, but rather guile, and planning.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Stalkers should also have debuff/control on top of defense and damage. Setting up stuff to weaken/confuse/limit an enemy has long been a thief role in stories and gaming.
The fear and -to-hit in AS was a good start. Bruising is the type of concept that stalkers need, although on a grander scale. |
This is what make stalkers so interesting from my point of view. If stalkers became more bruising, I would stop playing the AT all together.
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It sure was good for my morale the first time I saw that happen (I returned to the AT after a long absence to run a Stalker in Praetoria).
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The fear and -to-hit in AS was a good start.
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Well said, UberGuy. This has to be stressed when people discuss changes to Stalkers. Far too often people point out "Why a Stalker?" when, honestly, the same can has and will be said about any melee damage dealer. Or why any specific AT.
They get that stigma of how those bullies didn't invite their Stalker and count all the strikes against them and consider those strikes theirs and theirs alone.
Even the AoE problem people complain about isn't. Considering the sets with weak AoE damage (Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Martial Arts), this is the case for *every AT* with those sets. There are sets with strong AoE damage and only moderate AoE damage and it will show when used by a Stalker what type of set they are.
The solution to Stalker's supposed problem with AoE damage is to simply proliferate those sets that have good AoE damage. What are those again? Fire Melee, Mace/Ace and Super Strength are the sets I imagine those people are thinking as having good to great AoE. And no, they don't always have to sacrifice an AoE attack for AS (Look at Electric Melee) and no, just because they sacrifice 1 AoE doesn't suddenly make what a Stalker can do with it suddenly not worth it (go play a Dual Blade Stalker. BU > 1kcuts from hide is very powerful).
I think adding a change to widen the difference between Stalkers and Scrappers might be something they could do but the AT really isn't hurting as bad as people claim it to be.
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This is true, but thanks to the way AoEs are laid out, there is an immense difference in potential performance in a set that has even just one AoE, and the same set with that one AoE removed. To be fair, though, that narrows the big offender list to MA. DM has a more interesting difference; in PvE, having Build Up instead of Soul Drain is actually a fairly significant drag on peak performance. Soul Drain really is just so good that it can elevate a set with otherwise fairly middle-ground DPS into the top end.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
Even the AoE problem people complain about isn't. Considering the sets with weak AoE damage (Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Martial Arts), this is the case for *every AT* with those sets. There are sets with strong AoE damage and only moderate AoE damage and it will show when used by a Stalker what type of set they are.
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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Red
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Having actually played a high lvl DM stalker, much of the drag you speak of is alleviated in Assassin's Eclipse. Having such a potent punch of Negative energy damage that is not very resisted with the added benefit of controlling the crits on your higher attacks rather than them spread completely even throughout the strong and weak makes a bigger difference than you'd think.
I won't say it outstretches saturated Soul Drain, but then Soul Drain isn't always saturated.
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Yup I agree. I've been playing my Kin/Dark Stalker and having just ONE aoe is good enough for me. Hell, I would even settle for Ninja Blade and Broad Sword's first cone attack. It's not a whole lot of damage but when you hit more than 2-3 targets, it really adds up in a large team setting.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
This is true, but thanks to the way AoEs are laid out, there is an immense difference in potential performance in a set that has even just one AoE, and the same set with that one AoE removed. To be fair, though, that narrows the big offender list to MA. DM has a more interesting difference; in PvE, having Build Up instead of Soul Drain is actually a fairly significant drag on peak performance. Soul Drain really is just so good that it can elevate a set with otherwise fairly middle-ground DPS into the top end.
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Some Stalkers coming here to complain because they probably made an Energy Melee (I see them all the time still) and when they fight on a large team, they start with AS and try to placate and Total Focus. That's like a bit over 10s of just doing two attacks! After those 10s, your teammates probably killed 50% of the minions or more. This leaves a bad taste for a Stalker on a large team.
I actually advertise myself as "AoE Stalker' when I look for team. I want people to know that I am not only limited to ST and AS. I also usually run teams myself. I don't wait for people to invite me.
But honestly, when I play Spine/Elec/Dual Blade or even Kin, I feel more like a Scrapper with better critical rating. lol To some people, this is fine but to some who are looking for a cooler Assassin, it is not good enough.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I think you misunderstood me. I, too, like the weaken/confuse/control aspect that stalkers can bring, I just think they fail to bring enough (in the general case, some combinations are actually already within a range that I think is good).|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I like the weaken/confuse/control that stalkers can bring. Its fits in well where brute strength isn't always needed, but rather guile, and planning.
This is what make stalkers so interesting from my point of view. If stalkers became more bruising, I would stop playing the AT all together. |
When I said Bruising, I was talking of the new tanker ability to weaken a foes resistance to damage. Stalkers could use more stuff like that. I was not talking about making them more damaging or more brutish.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
For a relatively sedate pace of play, I'd agree. For a more high-end pace, which (for better or worse) I think a lot of people use to judge the relative value of powersets, I can say that Assassin's Strikes in general can be downplayed. If you have good recharge (though slotting, Sets, Hasten, what-have you), you can put out (single-target) DPS without your AS comparable to or better than you could put out by including your AS. This wasn't really as true before the last round of Stalker AT buffs, and a lot of it is down to the long activation time of the ASes, which is one of the reasons people often call for them to be shortened.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Having actually played a high lvl DM stalker, much of the drag you speak of is alleviated in Assassin's Eclipse. Having such a potent punch of Negative energy damage that is not very resisted with the added benefit of controlling the crits on your higher attacks rather than them spread completely even throughout the strong and weak makes a bigger difference than you'd think.
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Obviously, if you have a powerset with decent AoEs, you'll probably do a lot more damage per time with those, unless you're working on a boss or harder target.
I don't want to totally downplay the pure negative damage aspect of Assassin's Eclipse, because I know it can be nice at times. I'm not sure it rises to the level of a shift in overall performance, though, especially since DM has a couple of other heavy-hitting pure negative shots.
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| I won't say it outstretches saturated Soul Drain, but then Soul Drain isn't always saturated. |
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Quote:
Yeah, I think any adjustments needed for Stalkers should maintain their flavor. So upping the chance of debuffs from AS would be nice, making the crit chance from teammates work better, etc., would help do that. Not sure what else could be thrown their way to help out than that, but those sound good already.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Stalkers should also have debuff/control on top of defense and damage. Setting up stuff to weaken/confuse/limit an enemy has long been a thief role in stories and gaming.
The fear and -to-hit in AS was a good start. Bruising is the type of concept that stalkers need, although on a grander scale. |
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Not sure I buy this. MG+Smite starting from Hide is right around the same damage as AS from Hide in the same amount of time (or slightly better depending on what figure you use for average crit rate of Smite outside of Hide). But you can't sustain that. In the next 3 seconds, your DPS drops considerably. Starting from Hide with AS and *then* following with MG and Smite would be better.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
For a relatively sedate pace of play, I'd agree. For a more high-end pace, which (for better or worse) I think a lot of people use to judge the relative value of powersets, I can say that Assassin's Strikes in general can be downplayed. If you have good recharge (though slotting, Sets, Hasten, what-have you), you can put out (single-target) DPS without your AS comparable to or better than you could put out by including your AS.
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Admittedly, the longer a particular fight goes, the less that initial AS matters, but that also ignores the side-effects of AS or the potential health benefits of burst killing that first foe faster... to say nothing of the oft-repeated complaint that fights are over so quickly anyway in this game.
I think it's really hard (still) to argue that a Stalker can do the same or better ST without Assassin Strike.
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Quote:
I think you answered your own argument once you consider my comment about pacing.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Admittedly, the longer a particular fight goes, the less that initial AS matters, but that also ignores the side-effects of AS or the potential health benefits of burst killing that first foe faster... to say nothing of the oft-repeated complaint that fights are over so quickly anyway in this game.
I think it's really hard (still) to argue that a Stalker can do the same or better ST without Assassin Strike. |
The way a lot of people play, at least in the high-level game, there's essentially no such thing as distinct fights per spawn. Entire missions are practically a single ongoing fight, barring a small amount of time to travel between spawns (sometimes - that can depend a lot on the map). The way I play my Stalkers, stopping to AS something is often a loss of time and DPS... and that's solo.
If I'm on a team of like players (which is common, because I play with a core of "regulars" who gravitate towards similar build and play styles), even using AS on a boss can sometimes mean it dies before I finish activating. Hard targets last longer, of course, but if you're fighting a hard target on a team, your critical bonus is likely in play, since most of the team will cluster around the hard target, which ups the DPS of your non-AS attack chain even further.
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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Quote:
Except the devs probably don't balance the game to be played like that so any changes you're expecting to Stalkers won't be to those parameters, most likely. Again, I never said the DM set would outpace saturated Soul Drain, but in the situations it's not saturated, it will pull ahead.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The way a lot of people play, at least in the high-level game, there's essentially no such thing as distinct fights per spawn. Entire missions are practically a single ongoing fight, barring a small amount of time to travel between spawns (sometimes - that can depend a lot on the map). The way I play my Stalkers, stopping to AS something is often a loss of time and DPS... and that's solo.
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I said this before. It doesn't have to be saturated.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Again, I never said the DM set would outpace saturated Soul Drain, but in the situations it's not saturated, it will pull ahead.
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I never said I wanted the devs to change anything. Soul Drain on a Stalker would mostly be dumb. I said it lagged in performance, and it does, and it doesn't require saturation to lag.
Edit: I want to clear up just how the appeal to saturated conditions is invalid for Soul Drain's numerical superiority.
Assume 95% recharge slotting in Build Up or Soul Drain, 95% damage slotted in attacks with no procs, and no global recharge bonus.
Under those conditions, Build Up is +80% damage for 10 seconds every (90/1.95)+1.17 seconds plus or every 47s. Accounting for slotted damage, that's 2.75/1.95 = 1.41 factor damage. Averaging over its cycle time gives 10/47 or 21% of that value for an average damage increase of 1.41*21%= 30%.
Soul Drain adjusted to Stalker buff scales would be 8% per foe for 30 seconds every (120/1.95)+2.37 seconds or every 64s. Accounting for slotted damage, that's (100%+8%*Nfoes)/1.95. The cycle time factor is 30/64 = 47%.
The two powers break even when these two values are equal. So 30% = 47%*(100%+8%*Nfoes)/1.95. Solving for Nfoes gives Nfoes = 2.86 foes. That means at just three foes, Soul Drain is slightly better than Build Up for your average damage dealing.
This holds true at higher recharge levels all the way out to 150%. Soul Drain creeps ahead slightly, but NFoes remains a bit below three foes.
None of this means I want Soul Drain on my DM Stalkers. All I'm doing here is responding to the use of the term "saturated" to discussions of whether Soul Drain is the better performer. It doesn't have to be saturated to be better on average. Better on average is a very DPS-focused perspective, which typically dovetails in well with the people who would pass up a Stalker on the basis of lack of AoE, for example. That's why I brought it up as the "problem" that Stalker DM has relative to its Scrapper counterpart, in contrast with MA, which has the relative "problem" of losing Scrapper MA's one AoE attack.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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And the large burst of negative energy damage (from both AS and controlled crit on Midnight Grasp) covers a lot of the lag you consider the set to suffer from.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I said this before. It doesn't have to be saturated.
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I never said you were lobbying for a change, I'm just saying, having played a DM Stalker, it really is great to one-shot targets at will. I've only played DM on Scraps to mid levels so don't really have that much experience with Soul Drain (except with my DM Tanker who I still have and play) but all that talk of pacing usually ends with some waste of the buff too. If we're nit picking numbers, accounting for SD's downfalls should be in there too...like allies with KB, or the "disappearing mob due to KO" scenario or ToHit debuffs making you miss, etc.
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Having a lvl 50 DM scrapper, I can say that there is nothing not to like about Soul Drain. Because it is a little front loaded, you get a decent buff when fighting a single target, but increase the number of targets and the numbers can get ungodly... There is a reason why DM/Sh is the top DPS dealer for scrappers, and SD is half of it...
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
And the large burst of negative energy damage (from both AS and controlled crit on Midnight Grasp) covers a lot of the lag you consider the set to suffer from.
I never said you were lobbying for a change, I'm just saying, having played a DM Stalker, it really is great to one-shot targets at will. I've only played DM on Scraps to mid levels so don't really have that much experience with Soul Drain (except with my DM Tanker who I still have and play) but all that talk of pacing usually ends with some waste of the buff too. If we're nit picking numbers, accounting for SD's downfalls should be in there too...like allies with KB, or the "disappearing mob due to KO" scenario or ToHit debuffs making you miss, etc. |
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Against foes that heavily resist smashing damage, sure. Against everything else, not so much.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
And the large burst of negative energy damage (from both AS and controlled crit on Midnight Grasp) covers a lot of the lag you consider the set to suffer from.
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| I never said you were lobbying for a change, I'm just saying, having played a DM Stalker, it really is great to one-shot targets at will. I've only played DM on Scraps to mid levels so don't really have that much experience with Soul Drain (except with my DM Tanker who I still have and play) but all that talk of pacing usually ends with some waste of the buff too. |
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| If we're nit picking numbers, accounting for SD's downfalls should be in there too...like allies with KB, or the "disappearing mob due to KO" scenario or ToHit debuffs making you miss, etc. |
Are there times when having an unconditional self buff wins out over a "parasitic" attack like Soul Drain? Absolutely. I'd say that the general play style of a Stalker counts almost full time. Their intended role is burst damage, and Build Up works way, way better for that. But circling back to the main topic, burst damage just isn't that desirable to teams, and Stalker Dark Melee's DPS is sort of middle-of-the-road at sustained DPS. That's different than Scrapper DM's standing, and the difference is Soul Drain vs. Build Up.
Actually, the upgraded Martial Arts is now one of the top-rated Stalker (single-target) DPS sets.
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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
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TL;DR version: AS does not hurt your DPS.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
The way I play my Stalkers, stopping to AS something is often a loss of time and DPS... and that's solo.
[...] since most of the team will cluster around the hard target, which ups the DPS of your non-AS attack chain even further. |
A 3-second "standard" AS from hidden status by itself is higher DPA (2.21 DS/sec) than Blaze (2.102)*. Placate + AS - assuming that you're not interrupted, but adding both cast times together and figuring the DPA of both as a whole - has better DPA (1.433) than any Stalker power that's not Energy Transfer (1.57). Using it isn't a DPS hit unless you're knocked out of it, which doesn't really happen all that often on defense-based sets.
If you're getting hit all the time, then yes - trying to use it will hurt your DPS since it's wasted time in your chain. That's true for Placate and anything, though - very few powers gain in DPA when you combine their critical with Placate's cast time, and there's the chance that you'll get hit during Placate's animation and knocked right back out of hidden status before the next power even goes off. Also, the extra chance to critical from having your teammates nearby will also affect the double critical chance... so that's a wash.
* - the 3.67 second version that NB/BS get is 1.829 DS/sec, which is higher than Bitter Ice Blast (1.727)
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
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Originally Posted by Brillig
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As long as you are actually in hide, which is either the start of the fight, or every once every 30s (Being kind and assuming 3 slots of recharge in Placate). Without the crit from hide it is a frankly awful power.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
TL;DR version: AS does not hurt your DPS.
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This just isn't good enough for what is essentially the signature stalker power.
I have played scrappers for a long time, but am currently levelling a stalker with the intention of PvPing. I didn't expect to enjoy my ride up to 50 (And I don't PL) and although I must admit there is a certain type of fun to be had (Which I wouldn't want lost with any changes to make stalkers nearer to scrappers) there is still a feeling of 'I wish I was a scrapper'.
Basically outside of AS my Elec scrapper has 2 single target attacks. Two. Chain Induction (High end cost because it is pseudo-aoe) and Jacobs Ladder (Small cone) both got skipped on my scrapper because they aren't great, yet my stalker is pretty much forced to take them in order to have some kind of attack chain.
Whatever happens to stalkers AS needs to be made into a power that is worth using when NOT hidden. Personally I think that should equate to a 1.5s animation with no interrupt, and a change of the crit from hidden modifier so the crit damage remains the same. I would also change the placate animation to 0.5s since after all it is just a wave of the hand.
That change wouldn't be huge, and it wouldn't turn stalkers into scrappers, but it would mean that stalkers can actually use their signature power more than once or twice a fight like now. It would also mean you can have some more freedom in making your build because with AS usable in a real attack chain you can drop one more power than you would previously.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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That's a terribly important qualifier. Important enough that I think it should be part of the TL;DR version.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
TL;DR version: AS does not hurt your DPS.
<snip> Using it isn't a DPS hit unless you're knocked out of it, which doesn't really happen all that often on defense-based sets. |
Why? Because all Stalker secondaries are not defense sets. In fact, only three out of seven are defense-based. I'm not suggesting that the distribution of actual Stalker secondaries matches that simple distribution, but I do think it's clear there are going to be a a very much non-trivial number of non-defense-based Stalkers.
Focusing on those defense sets, even when defense-capped I find myself knocked out of hide on teams often enough to be bothersome. Examples are things Rikti Monkey gas and the incendiary grenades from Cimeroran Engineers. While the grenades roll hit checks, they spam enough of them that I find myself interrupted pretty regularly. (This used to bother me a lot more before AT damage mod buff and the addition of random criticals.)
These can certainly be viewed as edge cases across the breadth of normal content, and even in the places I run into them a lot (commonly run TFs) they relate primarily to using a steamroll playstyle. More sedate pace and more strategic targeting/disabling of foes can mitigates these challenges, but some of the problem we're discussing is that the stereotypical team that would overlook a Stalker doesn't want to worry about careful targeting of foes.
Finally, there is another problem with the interruptibility of AS not previously mentioned here. That's the problem of having to not move to use an interruptable attack, and how the game seems to determine whether you're (still) moving. Standing still long enough to AS foes is fine when it's your opening move, since you have time to position, wait, and then fire. It's often not fine in , well, a running battle.
I have a typically very good network connection to the game servers I play on. Despite this, whenever I have been moving, I often have to wait around one second after I've stopped moving (from my perspective) for the game to consider my character to be stationary. If I don't wait, the game interrupts my AS, as though I'm still moving. This phenomena seems to get worse the higher your network latency, though I have no hard data to back that assertion - it's a qualitative observation. If my foes are mobile, this situation makes using AS on them less attractive. I still do it, but it's definitely more problematic, and it worsens my AS's effective DPA from the ideal.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
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WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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No, becuase the situation you describe is not typical. It may be typical for you but then there are problems trying to do ANY addiitonal single-target damage on such a team.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I think you answered your own argument once you consider my comment about pacing.
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| The way a lot of people play, at least in the high-level game, there's essentially no such thing as distinct fights per spawn. Entire missions are practically a single ongoing fight, barring a small amount of time to travel between spawns (sometimes - that can depend a lot on the map). The way I play my Stalkers, stopping to AS something is often a loss of time and DPS... and that's solo. |
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| If I'm on a team of like players (which is common, because I play with a core of "regulars" who gravitate towards similar build and play styles), even using AS on a boss can sometimes mean it dies before I finish activating. |
In the former situation, what the team needs is more AoE. Not more ST. Using something faster than AS is not improving the situation by any noticeable amount. It's getting in some entirely irrevelant damage before the target would have died anyway a second later.
In the latter situation, the team doesn't need ANY more damage of any kind. It's also hard to imagine what the team could use except maybe splitting in half and going different directions.
In either case, you can't balance an AT around a team that is so overpowering content. Fortunately, I can say with some confidence this just doesn't happen on 99% of the PuGs out there at ANY level. Not that they are weak teams. Just that they take somewhat longer than 3 seconds to kill everything in sight.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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A 3 second AS has a DPA outside of hide of .789 DS/sec.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
As long as you are actually in hide, which is either the start of the fight, or every once every 30s (Being kind and assuming 3 slots of recharge in Placate). Without the crit from hide it is a frankly awful power.
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Some single-target primary set Stalker powers that have a lower DPA (BS not included because I'm lazy and haven't added it yet):
- Swipe (0.720)
- Power Slice (0.732)
- Nimble Slash (0.707)
- Vengeful Slice (0.621)
- Havoc Punch (0.769)
- Focused Burst (0.731)
- Divine Avalanche (0.53)
- Impale (0.773)
- Lunge (0.714)
- Barbed Swipe (0.356 -> truly a garbage power here)
It actually is the worst DPA single-target attack in 2 sets - Energy Melee and Martial Arts; note that in Kinetic Melee the AS is shorter than the standard 3 seconds and so ends up better off than Quick Strike as well as Focused Burst.
My Elec/Nin Stalker uses Assassin's Shock as an attack chain filler against single targets, whether Placate is recharged or not, simply because it's better than Mu Bolts (which I had), Havoc Punch (which I skipped), or Thunder Strike (which is horrible when used as a single-target attack). And while she's softcapped, she wasn't for most of her leveling career, and it still worked out fairly well.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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my one remaining gripe with them are ambushes that totally ignore stealth and home in on you like guided missiles. but that's not a problem with stalkers, it's a problem with ambush AI.