How will the new inherent fitness pool be for Khelds?
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Woot Awesome! |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Dechs,
Calling the lack any mez protection or mez resistance in the human form just so that the dwarf form will have meaning a "smart design" is an opinion and in my opinion not an even remotely accurate one. I'm not stating that it isn't the design, I just don't agree that it's a smart one. I agree on voids. I consider them extra XP. As far as the passives not carrying over, your statement in bold of "any other pool power" is false. Hasten carries over. Had you left it at pool passives don't carry over, then your statement would have been accurate. In any case, Castle responded to my PM on the topic at hand. With his permission I share with you his response: (cuz I keep PMs private unless otherwise agreed upon) So... he's way ahead of us.  Oh... and this tidbit, too. So let it be written, so let it be done! |
(Hugs Bill Z Bubba and Castle *Dark Dwarf form to get the arms arround both of yah)
ok a couple of questions with this.. are we getting more slots?
and whats going to happen to the people who already have fitness slotted out, where are our slots and enhancements going to go with the change?
I have stamina already 5 sloted for the 2 hp buffs, and my health have some nice miracle and numnia procs in it.. if they get deleted i would kick a devs ***.
Lastly why dont they go a step further and make all the pools change over except the travels.. so we can have leadership in dwarf and nova.. that would be cool. and it would save us time for when we switch back to human so we dont have to retoggle espiecially in pvp.
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Here's the understanding I have now:
No, we don't get more slots.
Yes, you can slot all 4 fitness powers as you do now just as you can slot brawl and sprint.
When this change occurs, existing characters with fitness will see no difference. They won't suddenly have double health and double stamina. You will have to respec in order for fitness to become inherent.
All new characters will have fitness open at level 2.
As for the other pool powers, for now I'm not going to side with opening them all up to the forms.
A white dwarf with tough, weave and combat jumping sounds a bit overpowered to me at the moment especially if those powers are cranked up with SetIOs.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Forget that. Try a Nova with Weave, CJ, maybe Stealth, Maneuvers and Assault, all cranked with IO bonuses.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
A white dwarf with tough, weave and combat jumping sounds a bit overpowered to me at the moment especially if those powers are cranked up with SetIOs.
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Assault doesn't take any IO sets, as anyone that has actually looked at the power in Mids can tell you.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Forget that. Try a Nova with Weave, CJ, maybe Stealth, Maneuvers and Assault, all cranked with IO bonuses.
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Not my point. What I was saying is that Nova could reach a softcapped state easily, which is (in my opinion) more overpowered than dwarf form doing the same.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Assault doesn't take any IO sets, as anyone that has actually looked at the power in Mids can tell you.
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I mention assault because it will stack on top of the inherent nova bonus.
Further, there was no reason to have such snark in your post. I am well versed in the game's mechanics, thank you.
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Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
A nova with 75% resist all would be overpo.... err no wait nevermind.
Nothing to see here move along!
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Slight nitpick, it's 85% in a warshade, but it's not permanent (without having to drop and reapply), requires 5 foes in range (if fully slotted) and an accuracy check to achieve, and doesn't have mez protection.|
Originally Posted by Mephe
A nova with 75% resist all would be overpo.... err no wait nevermind.
Nothing to see here move along! |
Defense, on the other hand, brings mez and debuff protection with it in the form of not being hit, and since it would come via toggles and bonuses, is always there and won't require an accuracy check.
Again, this is all theoretical.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Inherent fitness being active while in nova or dwarf is one thing but I doubt we'll see toggles being active in the forms. I'd be happy with just having the toggles suppressed in nova or dwarf just so I don't have to spend time turning them all back on once back in human form.
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Asked Castle about that a while back. (Few years. 1 year. I dunno. Time has turned into a mudpit in my brain.)|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Inherent fitness being active while in nova or dwarf is one thing but I doubt we'll see toggles being active in the forms. I'd be happy with just having the toggles suppressed in nova or dwarf just so I don't have to spend time turning them all back on once back in human form.
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Anyway... Suppressed toggles still cost end. Players would gripe about the huge cost of running toggles that don't function. Ain't happenin. Or so my muddied and damaged memory is telling me.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Asked Castle about that a while back. (Few years. 1 year. I dunno. Time has turned into a mudpit in my brain.)
Anyway... Suppressed toggles still cost end. Players would gripe about the huge cost of running toggles that don't function. Ain't happenin. Or so my muddied and damaged memory is telling me. |
Yeah but would it really be an issue with inherent fitness? I can run a ton of toggles and blast away indefintely in human form. Not to mention the built in end recovery of the forms. I've never had an issue in Nova with end. Dwarf...on occasion.
My point is, I think toggles operating in nova and dwarf are very unlikely to happen so am hoping for at least a small QOL feature in compromise. Players bellyaching about the added end cost can simply prevent it by turning off the toggles (which really shouldn't be an issue with inherent fitness + the form's end recovery.)
It is a lot easier to turn off toggles with a single click and a bind that it is to turn them all back on.
I'd be for it, but as I said... I don't see it ever happening. Then again, I said that about inherent fitness as well.
Be well, people of CoH.
It's not April 1st, so we know it can't be THAT.
Seriously though, am I assuming that only Swift and Hurdle unlock at 2? Then 14th for Health, and 20th for Stamina? I ask, because holy crap would Stamina (even at diminished levels) be nice in the pre-15 (remembering exemping) levels. That right there'd make so many powers like Orbiting Death usable on a much greater frequency than we can use them now. Without Stamina or Stygian, ya pretty much have to suck blues and detoggle/retoggle every spawn.
"I'm flying free with my beautiful butterfly wings!" ~ Randy Marsh
All four open up at level 2.
Be well, people of CoH.
I took Health on my Shade when I I was first leveling him up. I had the Numina's +Regen/+Recovery in there. Generally that meant that when I was changing forms it'd give me that 2 minute buff.
This last issue either broke or fixed that, in that it ONLY worked in human form. I just respec'd out of Health because of that, I'm glad I held on to the Numina's in my tray though!
I am really looking forward to having Fitness work in forms. It's not hugely game changing but it does make my favorite character that much more fun to play.
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It's an intentional change, 120-second-procs now work only while a toggle is active, or while an auto is active, instead of starting a two-minute timer. They're two minutes after you use a click power.
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Originally Posted by DireAngelus
I took Health on my Shade when I I was first leveling him up. I had the Numina's +Regen/+Recovery in there. Generally that meant that when I was changing forms it'd give me that 2 minute buff.
This last issue either broke or fixed that, in that it ONLY worked in human form. I just respec'd out of Health because of that, I'm glad I held on to the Numina's in my tray though! |
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Yep, I understand why it works like it works now. It gave me a chance to play with another couple of the WS powers to take the place of Hurdle and Health. I'm still glad I held on to that Numina's though! |
Originally Posted by seebs
It's an intentional change, 120-second-procs now work only while a toggle is active, or while an auto is active, instead of starting a two-minute timer. They're two minutes after you use a click power.
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You know what? This just suddenly gives me a great idea. Remember that Castle (or someone) once said that he could create an Inherent power that would toggle off Forms, to allow the drop to Human to be queued? What if this power, in addition, toggled on all currently available shield powers? (On Warshades, it could turn on Shadow Cloak, if available, as well) |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
It is a lot easier to turn off toggles with a single click and a bind that it is to turn them all back on.
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Since it is a power, not a macro, it can break the rule that "you can't queue up more than one power at a time". This would essentially be a power that has the effect of all your available shields at the same time. The implementation could get messy, it may take another set of shield powers that are activated and deactivated by the toggles. And the Inherent toggle would somehow have to figure out which powers you don't have. (Maybe a better solution would be to make the shields Auto, and have the toggle turn them all on and off)
However, I think this would be a good balancing for the AT as a whole. The basic idea is the reverse of Swap Ammo, instead of one power controlled by switching between three toggles, you would have three powers controlled by one toggle. Human Forms could even use the power to save time when activating their toggles. And since it would do more than just turn off Nova/Dwarf form, it would not seem as much of a kludge.
You could even make it so the shields are simply Auto, and don't operate in Nova/Dwarf form, but honestly I don't think the devs would go for that since it wouldn't have an End cost. The toggle could provide the End cost, though, either a static value or somehow based on the number of Autos turned on. (I'm guessing Autos can use End, actually, that's been a bug that's appeared before. But of course you'd want to be able to turn that End cost off with the power)
Here's why I don't see it happening, even if I'd like it:
"If Khels can turn on all their shields with one button why the hell can't everyone else with multiple shields?!?!?!"
Be well, people of CoH.
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For the same reason everyone else can't press a button and shapeshift into something else. Or for that matter, why everyone can't take a power and get three mutually exclusive toggles they can use to change their damage type at well. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Here's why I don't see it happening, even if I'd like it:
"If Khels can turn on all their shields with one button why the hell can't everyone else with multiple shields?!?!?!" |
But you know what bringing logic into an Internet argument will get you.
If it's a problem, maybe it can be worked out so that if you had any toggles on when you shifted out of Human form, it turns them back on when you shift into it. Sort of the way your pets are resummoned when you zone. Then you're not turning on multiple shields, you're just restoring them.
How about just making it so the shields don't cost any End, but having them give a -End effect each tick? Then that could be suppressed along with the resistance. You wouldn't be able to slot it for End reduction, but that's the trade off for not having it cost anything half the time.
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See Stone Armor for a power that you shapeshift into that blocks you from other toggles.| For the same reason everyone else can't press a button and shapeshift into something else. Or for that matter, why everyone can't take a power and get three mutually exclusive toggles they can use to change their damage type at well. |
In the end though, the important thing you said was this:
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| But you know what bringing logic into an Internet argument will get you. |
To be perfectly honest, I would prefer that the toggle dam-res shields all be turned into passives, even with the necessary reduction in mitigation values.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Good point, and I suppose it WOULD be nice if you could turn all your Stone Armor toggles back on with a single press when you turn off Granite. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
See Stone Armor for a power that you shapeshift into that blocks you from other toggles.
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Then again, constantly shifting forms is something unique to Kheldians, even compared to Stone Armor. And Granite DOES NOT block you from ALL of your powers. You can still keep on Rooted and Mud Pots, and your click powers are uneffected.
I guess my thought was that if a power could turn off a form and turn on a shield, it would not be so much as a thrown together workaround to the problem. In fact, I wonder why turning on (for instance) Shining Shield can't simply turn off White Dwarf, and vice versa. When I have on Fly, if I toggle on Hover, Fly turns off. It doesn't seem like there is any simple explanation for why the Kheldian toggles couldn't work that way. Or, for that matter, ANY of their powers.
Perhaps the Smash/Lethal damage shield could be turned into a passive, and the other two shields given a small stackable Smash/Lethal component to compensate. That way your Smash/Lethal would always be on, but you could "strengthen" it and your other resistances by turning on the toggles. (You already have a passive Energy/Negative resistance, so that would leave only Fire/Cold that you would be vulnerable to with no shield up) I would certainly prefer the extra physical resistance, even if lower, if I could use it when I drop out of Form to fire off a Stygian Circle or Mire.
On the one Toggle to Rule Them all:
How do you decide what toggles you want to go off? Using Stone as an example, I don't always want to run the my Psi shield. What if I don't want Orbiting Death to go off on my Warshade? One problem gets replaced with another, and we'll get threads requesting that they all get separated again.
I admit it's a smaller issue to turn off a few offending toggles than turn on all of them, but we have people complaining about Fitness becoming inherent for crap's sake.
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Well, one thing I thought about is that if the devs did make them all Auto, and the toggle would turn them all on and off, that I'd drop the idea of including Shadow Cloak into the mix. It would basically be like having a single defense power that you would add Resistances to by taking the passive powers. So for instance you would have the physical resistances, and then pick up Thermal Shield to add elemental protection to your shield. |
Originally Posted by Gehnen
How do you decide what toggles you want to go off? Using Stone as an example, I don't always want to run the my Psi shield. What if I don't want Orbiting Death to go off on my Warshade? One problem gets replaced with another, and we'll get threads requesting that they all get separated again.
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I can see where players would not like to pay the End cost for all three, though, and might want to choose one or two to turn on instead of being forced to use all three, or however many you currently have. Then again, this is essentially what you get with Dwarf, you don't get to choose what resistances you get, or turn on and off toggles to save Endurance. You have ONE set of resistances that come from ONE power. You have no choice in the matter.
In the end, it gets back to, do you want the convenience of being able to toggle all your defenses up at once, after you've had them all detoggled after taking on a Form? Or do you want to choose which defenses you turn back on? Are you willing to pay the extra End to keep your toggles up while in Dwarf Form, or would you expect that to be suppressed along with the effect? Do you expect a Tri-Form Kheldian to have all the same priviledges of a Human Form, or do those who choose to take pure Human Form get a special advantage in that their sheilds don't get toggled off?
The best solution would probably be to simply toggle back on those powers that were toggled off by the Form change. But making that possible could prove more difficult than, well, Form Customization.
I'll also add that you don't HAVE to use the power to toggle off Nova/Dwarf. Unless the devs change things somehow to require that. (Which I don't see them doing, since you can still detoggle by running out of End) If the shield toggles remain separate from the Inherent power, or both access the same Auto power, then you can turn the same power on either way. And yes, I know that currently there's no precedent for one power turning on another power. (You can turn another one off, but not on)
QR
I was sure I was missing something :-P.
Thanks.
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