Ebil Marketeering... the "diet" version?
By
Chaos Creator,
Posted on: 2010-09-06 20:31 in The Market and Inventions
I've never had and protected a niche. So I don't know what the expand/collapse cycle is on them. I do know (from doing generics, anyway) that sometimes someone moves in and undercuts you for a while and eventually they move on. Niches collapse - faster for crazier overpriced niches, of course-and they don't always come back.
Do you have a plan for what happens if/when your niche collapses? [Every time I've tried to buy out the competition and support my price, it's failed. Maybe I just don't think big enough, but last time I spent a billion and eventually I recovered around 3/4 of my investment. Took a month, though. ]
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
If you want to get a feel for how crafted IOs more through niches, you might want to try Archie's thread where he went from zero inf to the inf cap in 5 days. If you skip to the end of the thread, he posts lists of all the IOs he traded, including the recipe purchase price, list price, sale price, how long they each took to sell, etc:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=231833
That was before the market merge, but I don't think that things have changed all the much, beyond the general ebb and flow of the markets over time.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
If you want to get a feel for how crafted IOs more through niches, you might want to try Archie's thread where he went from zero inf to the inf cap in 5 days. If you skip to the end of the thread, he posts lists of all the IOs he traded, including the recipe purchase price, list price, sale price, how long they each took to sell, etc:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=231833 That was before the market merge, but I don't think that things have changed all the much, beyond the general ebb and flow of the markets over time. |
I looked over his thread. Very detailed and helpful! However, still tons more work than I am willing to put in. I believe I have been honest with myself and up front about that from the beginning. My goals may not match my allocated time to put into it, but you gotta have a goal, right?
Archie admits to spending 4-6 hours a day during this experiment. I personally have no desire to spend near that much time, and therefore do not expect the same returns. Honestly, I don't expect any returns. Money I have put into my various tests and projects is considered "gone" and if I never see it again, oh well
@Fulmens
After looking into this more closely, I doubt I will attempt to totally control one niche as well. There are simply way too many options for people to get what they want other ways. The market tends to be a convenience, and therefore is not someplace where you can start forcing hands.
My example from WoW made more sense in my ability to corner a market. Obtaining the items in question simply via farming was beyond tedious. In addition, the items the mobs dropped beyond the rep item was junk. To top it all off, it took a very long time to farm up all of the items you needed if you intended to do it that way. The drop rate was horrible. 10% or something like that across a huge selection of mobs. Not even something you could effectively target. This did however mean that lots of people would end up with 3-8 after playing for a night. They would toss em on the market in these odd numbers and I would collect. Since the rep turn in was 10 at a time, odd number sets were less valued for convenience. Cornering this market was easy because I was willing to put in the work and it just wasn't worth it to most other people.
/ramble over
Anyways... as I was saying, in this game, "drops is drops" and beyond level and tech vs arcane, the guy you're shooting today could just as easily drop what you're looking for as the completely different guy you were shooting yesterday. In addition to that, if you simply "must have" there's merits, A-Merits, and AE rolls, which may or may not be lucky
So yeah, I don't foresee myself cornering anything in the near future.
I will note on my projects here though: Update time!
Level 1 - Salvage flipping: This money is indeed "gone" as this guy is only 7. He can't even mail it back to me!!! Oh well, my plan for him is a level every 2 days to 10, just so he can send off anything he makes at some later date.
Currently, I check him a couple of times a day (log in - mid character switch - log off for night) and every time I check him, I need to bid / collect / repost. He has a ton more potential if I was willing to just camp on him. I'm not, so I let it go. Incidentally, this is the character I will be using when I write my very own "how to get started with nothing at level 1" guide. I will be writing it not from the perspective of a successful ebil marketeer, but of a guy who just jumped in with both feet and an idea. This is SO simple I don't think anyone can complain about how easy it is and how effective it can be for making your first starting bit of cash. Maybe I'll have my 9 year old try it out... hmm.
This guy has made about 9 mil so far, 2 days in. He deals in exactly 1 uncommon salvage. Nothing more simple than that. He has a set buy price and a set sell price. The stuff turns stupid fast
Level 2 - My Pool A experiment. Well... this took a dive. Thunderstrikes were doing well when I opted in. Then they bottomed out. This happens, and I'm not sweating it, but I have some slots clogged. I very much dislike pulling sales and re-bidding, so I'll be riding this slump out. As we head into the weekend, they should clear out and I can evaluate if its worth it to stay there.
Level 3 - High end pool A (yellow recipe, costs 4 salvage - including 1 rare salvage - to make) has also flopped on me. This was the range I was working on. I moved the inventory off of a character I actually needed the slots to outfit, and onto another that is sitting idle. The demand has shown to be slower than expected after relocating. Once again, I will be evaluating this after the weekend.
Level 4 - Pool B - I am disappointed with this choice. Lots of movement. Lots of sales. High "opt in" cost on the niche, and once I have mine up and listed at 90% of current average, it drops 30% and sales stall.
I know its early in the game for this, but I either made some poor choices, or I happened on a few slots in the market that all went south at the same time. Oh well. Haven't made anything I won't keep and use myself if pressed, so I'm not worried
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Just out of curiosity, how well-versed are you in high-end Mids builds? Having a good knowledge of pieces that are ubiquitous in very powerful builds can be invaluable when deciding what pieces to deal in. I began playing the market while making a "dream" scrapper build. Instead of just building one of certain enhancements, I'd buy a stack of them and sell my extras. I made a boatload of money IOing this guy out. Nowadays if I could snap my fingers and liquidate all my slotted enhancements I'd be sitting on something like 50 billion inf, and I never spent more than 15-20 minutes a day at the market.
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
I know its early in the game for this, but I either made some poor choices, or I happened on a few slots in the market that all went south at the same time. Oh well. Haven't made anything I won't keep and use myself if pressed, so I'm not worried
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I'm fairly good with Mid's. I do a LOT of mock up builds for myself and for others. I know what tends to end up in a LOT of builds and those were the sets I looked into for my higher end endeavor. The one I chose showed the most promise. In fact, a lot of the others I looked at showed very little promise at the time, or very tight profit margins. So I picked the one that I thought looked the best.|
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
Just out of curiosity, how well-versed are you in high-end Mids builds? Having a good knowledge of pieces that are ubiquitous in very powerful builds can be invaluable when deciding what pieces to deal in. I began playing the market while making a "dream" scrapper build. Instead of just building one of certain enhancements, I'd buy a stack of them and sell my extras. I made a boatload of money IOing this guy out. Nowadays if I could snap my fingers and liquidate all my slotted enhancements I'd be sitting on something like 50 billion inf, and I never spent more than 15-20 minutes a day at the market.
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*shrug* Like I said, its all just one big experiment. And frankly, the market is fairly rough in some places where it wasn't before. In other places its very good. For example: I am now the proud owner of 3 confuse, 2 sleep, and 1 hold purple sets (missing 3 or 4 total IOs I think from all of it). All of these were obtained for less than 10 mil each - and all were crafted enhancements.
I think perhaps I jumped into the sets i did at a very weird time, and I will watch them to see how they do.
Things I can think of off the top of my head that I looked at:
Lotg
Oblit
Posi blast
Aegis
Doctored Wounds
... many others
Anything that was suggested in this thread. And yeah, I looked into them. Watched them for a bit. And made my move. I zigged, the market zagged. No biggie
I just don't have the patience, or the inclination, to sit here for hours on end picking through the recipes and crafting at an "on demand" basis (similar to what Archie did - man, he was all over the place!). Its just not my thing.
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I wasn't suggesting you should try to do what he did, just that you might find the numbers interesting in terms of profit and turnover. Archie was specifically trying to get from zero to the inf cap in as fast a time as possible, the hardest part of that which, really, is the 'from zero'. Working a few different level 50 niches on an on-going basis isn't nothing like as time consuming.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Archie admits to spending 4-6 hours a day during this experiment. I personally have no desire to spend near that much time, and therefore do not expect the same returns.
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Look at it this way -- you aim to make 500 million a month. At the rate he was making inf, Archie could've made, at a minimum, 12 billion a month, although in reality it would be more than that, as the rest of the month would lack the initial ramp-up phase. You'll only need to put in a fraction of the effort he did to make that 500 million tick over.
(I also thought the list would be helpful because you said you were having trouble finding the right things to craft. Despite the market merge, I assume most of those IOs are still good for a profit, and if not, then they're good sets to check out to see if any other pieces are selling well.)
The real answer to your initial question is -- you can't do exactly what you were doing in WoW, but instead it's pretty trivially easy to make the kind of money you're aiming for by working a few niches at level 50 and trading in whatever is selling nicely that week. Make yourself a personal base (which takes very little time to put together once you have a high level character to earn prestige) for storage and crafting, get a trading character who's maxed out on storage and market slots, and inf will roll in for little effort.
If you want to try out different ways to make inf, that's awesome and cool, and the forum will watch with interest. But you did ask a question, to which there's a fairly well-tested answer.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Again, you have to remember that was a very specific goal of 'as much as possible, as fast as possible', in pursuit of which he was trying to use as many niches as possible, hence the large number of different IOs. IIRC, he was aiming to have only one of any kind of IO listed at any one time. That isn't a time-efficient way to marketeer normally.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
I just don't have the patience, or the inclination, to sit here for hours on end picking through the recipes and crafting at an "on demand" basis (similar to what Archie did - man, he was all over the place!). Its just not my thing.
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And actually, the IO list was created in advance of the experiment, so he wasn't really crafting on demand. It's just that he was working on a much large selection of niches than would normally be the case.
I'll ask him to drop into the thread and describe his more typical approach, and how much time it takes up. :-)
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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I'm sure its helpful information, but it's far from necessary. I've concocted a grand total of 1 Mid's build in my CoH career (an attempt to get my lackluster ar/dev to the ranged defense cap, which I've put on hold pending inherent fitness) but it's no trouble to find niches. If i see something that looks likely I check its stats, if they're "good" I make my move.|
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
Just out of curiosity, how well-versed are you in high-end Mids builds? Having a good knowledge of pieces that are ubiquitous in very powerful builds can be invaluable when deciding what pieces to deal in.
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Sometimes I get stung, but so does everyone else. As Fulmens says, one big winner pays for a lot of mistakes.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Perhaps I am going about asking the question in an ineffective way. I am getting a lot of the same responses, so maybe I need to reformulate the question.
Let me start over:
What are the markers for a good niche?
How many for sale?
How many bids?
How many transactions in the last day?
How many recipes for sale?
I can figure out the cost / sell part easily, but maybe I am using the wrong markers in determining what a good niche is.
We have narrowed down that level 50 IOs offer the best profit per transaction.
We have narrowed down that the sell price should be about 1.5x to 2x the crafting price.
We have narrowed down an extensive list of things that an experienced marketeer will look at, via Archie's spread sheet.
I'm looking at all of the variables here, and it seems that most of the money is to be made turning as many transactions a day as you can. This tells me that while I have all of the information about "how" I am missing the "what". I base this on my attempt to try many niches on many characters and having them all bomb. I'm into what I would consider good niches (for the most part) yet nothing is moving. In fact, prices continue to drop in the niches I'm in. So my idea of what is good is off here.
Can anyone give me what they use as markers for a good niche?
Thanks again!
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Large difference between recipe and crafted prices +recent sales.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Perhaps I am going about asking the question in an ineffective way. I am getting a lot of the same responses, so maybe I need to reformulate the question.
Let me start over: What are the markers for a good niche? How many for sale? How many bids? How many transactions in the last day? How many recipes for sale? I can figure out the cost / sell part easily, but maybe I am using the wrong markers in determining what a good niche is. We have narrowed down that level 50 IOs offer the best profit per transaction. We have narrowed down that the sell price should be about 1.5x to 2x the crafting price. We have narrowed down an extensive list of things that an experienced marketeer will look at, via Archie's spread sheet. I'm looking at all of the variables here, and it seems that most of the money is to be made turning as many transactions a day as you can. This tells me that while I have all of the information about "how" I am missing the "what". I base this on my attempt to try many niches on many characters and having them all bomb. I'm into what I would consider good niches (for the most part) yet nothing is moving. In fact, prices continue to drop in the niches I'm in. So my idea of what is good is off here. Can anyone give me what they use as markers for a good niche? Thanks again! |
Also I'd prefer a 200m->300m craft sale over 10 2m->5m sales.
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If you're flipping, price fluctuation.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Perhaps I am going about asking the question in an ineffective way. I am getting a lot of the same responses, so maybe I need to reformulate the question.
Let me start over: What are the markers for a good niche? |
If you're crafting for sale, the variance between the cost of materials and the going rate for the crafted enhancement.
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| How many for sale? |
A big pile for sale indicates there are other folks working the niche, which will act to narrow your profit margins.
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| How many bids? |
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| How many transactions in the last day? |
Keep in mind that more expensive stuff moves slower than cheaper stuff.
I'm happy to let something sit for a while if it means a massive profit.
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| How many recipes for sale? |
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| I can figure out the cost / sell part easily, but maybe I am using the wrong markers in determining what a good niche is. |
I've been mining a particular Postron's Blast recipe this past week, alternating flipping 10 stacks of recipes with crafting for sale (depending on whether or not my lowball bids on the rare salvage filled overnight or not).
I'm buying the recipes between 100 and 200k. Flipping I list at 500k and usually sell around a million each (some more some less, it averages out). Crafting I list around 5 million and they've been reliably selling for 8-10 million.
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We have narrowed down that level 50 IOs offer the best profit per transaction. We have narrowed down that the sell price should be about 1.5x to 2x the crafting price. |
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| I'm looking at all of the variables here, and it seems that most of the money is to be made turning as many transactions a day as you can. |
Being lazy, I generally gravitate toward huge markup, low turnover.
I'd rather make 100 million on one transaction than on 20 transactions.
If I were in a hurry to make inf I'd emphasize turnover, but aside from bursts of activity like my current infatuation with Posi Blasts I find laying back and focusing on massive markups still earns more than I can spend.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Thank you all for your help, but I'm honestly feeling like either I'm too dumb to get this or that I'll be spinning in circles trying to follow the advice here.
In general, I find all of the advice helpful, but vague. Its like getting pointed in the right general direction, but still lacking the knowledge of how to get from A to B.
Goat's latest answers come the closest to answering my questions, but they're still too vague for me to personally apply to the market.
There's a ton of recipes at level 50. I have gone through all of them and applied what I have learned from here.
I'm still lost as to what exactly entails a good niche in this game. "Lower the better" is a great answer, except when you find recipes with 1 for sale that sell about 1 a week. Then they're not so great. Is 20 low? 30? 40? (<--- these are for example and not meant to be answered)
Perhaps there is too great of a chasm between the people who are just (and I mean just) getting into this and the people who have been doing this for a long time. The assumptions you take for granted aren't things we've learned yet.
*shrug*
I guess I will go back to blindly stabbing at the market and see if I can figure out what it is that makes this click.
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I'll PM you the specific details of my niche so you can check it out and see how it works.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Goat's latest answers come the closest to answering my questions, but they're still too vague for me to personally apply to the market.
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I usually stay vague because the fun for me is more in the discovery than the exploitation, but I can see how if you hadn't *done* it before spotting the telltale signs of profit on the waters could be daunting.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I think the problem may be that there's a tremendous number of ways to make inf and you're probably getting different people pointing you in different directions.
One problem is that the better the niche, the less stable it [probably] is. Just after the market merged, I managed to buy a few level 30 Regenerative Tissue: +Regen for 23 million, craft them, and sell them for over 70 million. That collapsed FAST. There might still be a niche there, I don't know, but if there is it's likely to be more like "buy for 40, sell for 50". (I just checked, and it looks like "buy for 63, sell for 90" at the moment. Pretty good money, before I opened my big mouth.)
Another problem is that supply tends to creep up over time, and demand goes in huge spikes (Going Rogue being one of those) so you have a sort of sawtooth price chart.
I'm not going to tell you what I look for, because I don't play the market the way you want to.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I think the problem may be that there's a tremendous number of ways to make inf and you're probably getting different people pointing you in different directions.
One problem is that the better the niche, the less stable it [probably] is. Just after the market merged, I managed to buy a few level 30 Regenerative Tissue: +Regen for 23 million, craft them, and sell them for over 70 million. That collapsed FAST. There might still be a niche there, I don't know, but if there is it's likely to be more like "buy for 40, sell for 50". (I just checked, and it looks like "buy for 63, sell for 90" at the moment. Pretty good money, before I opened my big mouth.) Another problem is that supply tends to creep up over time, and demand goes in huge spikes (Going Rogue being one of those) so you have a sort of sawtooth price chart. I'm not going to tell you what I look for, because I don't play the market the way you want to. |
Actually, I'm really not looking for a list of niches. Nor am I looking for a buy low / sell high explanation. I get that. I think everyone gets that. If they don't they're even further behind the curve than I am.
What I am asking for, and what makes this work, and what frustrates the hell out of people is for someone to simply lay out their identifying markers for a "potential" niche.
You all do it. Every last one of you who marketeers even somewhat successfully does it. You probably don't even realize it any more. You look at something, anything, and evaluate it based on ideas you have in your head.
You may say no to an item for various reason - "Too many for sale" - "Way too much fluctuation" - "No (or not enough) recipes available on a regular basis". You all have these qualifiers. People new to the market do not.
They lack the years of experience that you guys have to fall back on. We're missing steps 2 and 3 in the 4 step process here, and everyone keeps telling us to do step 1 and 4 but never mentions 2 or 3.
Step 1 - Got to market and open window.
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - Buy recipe, salvage, craft and sell at profit.
To use a similar example:
I ask my neighbor "How do you get to the hospital?! I have a broken leg!"
He says "You get in your car and leave your driveway. When you get to the hospital, go into the emergency room."
Helpful information, but it doesn't get me there, ya know?
Steps 2 and 3 are the evaluation of the niche. This is where the actual marketeering and profit takes place. Anyone with a reasonable intellect can figure out how to sell something for more than they paid for it. But the evaluation of a slot is the key here.
This is what frustrates people. The lack of that evaluation knowledge is what holds most people back.
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I've found almost every niche I've ever mined in this game thanks to a recipe received as a drop. I'm sure there are more educated and scientific ways to find niches, but looking up everything I get that isn't obvious junk has worked for me up til now.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
They lack the years of experience that you guys have to fall back on. We're missing steps 2 and 3 in the 4 step process here, and everyone keeps telling us to do step 1 and 4 but never mentions 2 or 3.
Step 1 - Got to market and open window. Step 2 - ??? Step 3 - ??? Step 4 - Buy recipe, salvage, craft and sell at profit. |
so my list would look like
step 1: get drops
step 2: research drops at market
step 3: note the 'good stuff'
step 4: stock up, craft and sell for big bux.
Also in my GR Martketgeddon Postmortem thread I noted how I chose which PvP recipes to stock up on by checking supply- the ones I picked had the classic sign of an undervalued recipe, a stable price point combined with very low supply. That same tactic would work with pretty much any high value IO in the game.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
Actually, I'm really not looking for a list of niches. Nor am I looking for a buy low / sell high explanation. I get that. I think everyone gets that. If they don't they're even further behind the curve than I am.
What I am asking for, and what makes this work, and what frustrates the hell out of people is for someone to simply lay out their identifying markers for a "potential" niche. You all do it. Every last one of you who marketeers even somewhat successfully does it. You probably don't even realize it any more. You look at something, anything, and evaluate it based on ideas you have in your head. You may say no to an item for various reason - "Too many for sale" - "Way too much fluctuation" - "No (or not enough) recipes available on a regular basis". You all have these qualifiers. People new to the market do not. They lack the years of experience that you guys have to fall back on. We're missing steps 2 and 3 in the 4 step process here, and everyone keeps telling us to do step 1 and 4 but never mentions 2 or 3. Step 1 - Got to market and open window. Step 2 - ??? Step 3 - ??? Step 4 - Buy recipe, salvage, craft and sell at profit. To use a similar example: I ask my neighbor "How do you get to the hospital?! I have a broken leg!" He says "You get in your car and leave your driveway. When you get to the hospital, go into the emergency room." Helpful information, but it doesn't get me there, ya know? Steps 2 and 3 are the evaluation of the niche. This is where the actual marketeering and profit takes place. Anyone with a reasonable intellect can figure out how to sell something for more than they paid for it. But the evaluation of a slot is the key here. This is what frustrates people. The lack of that evaluation knowledge is what holds most people back. |
Well, one way to do it would be:
1. Find your target trading universe by data mining forum posts in various AT forums. The most frequent mentions in builds are good candidates for initial targets.
2. Monitor trade prices for a target commodities every 15 minutes for a 2-week period. This should give you a good idea of what trading frequency looks like as well as what average price and volatility looks like.,
3. Set your target bid at 1.5 standard deviations below the mean trading price, and set your target offer at 1.5 standard deviations above the mean.
4. Set exit parameters and stop-loss limits that fit your individual risk tolerence.
Me? I just find something that I think is useful, throw in a few bids that I think are higher than the lowest outstanding bid, repost (or craft) at a level that I think is lower than the highest outstanding offer. Works like a charm, but not very rigorous.
(edit: don't forget the 11.2% rule. Stupid commissions going to build BaB's island mansion.)
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
step 2: research drops at market
step 3: note the 'good stuff' |
Care to expand on these?
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Blindly stabbing is how I found my current niches.
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
I guess I will go back to blindly stabbing at the market and see if I can figure out what it is that makes this click.
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Culex's resistance guide
Okay, a basic analysis:
"Good" enhancements to sell are enhancements which sell reasonably often for a reasonably high price. But, it's not worth it if you can't craft them for substantially less than that.
Typically, the first place I look if I want to try to find an interesting thing is procs and specials -- the Edict of the Master +5% pet defense, for instance, is much more likely to sell for large values than most regular enhancements. Next thing to look at is desireable combos within the same set, especially if it has set bonuses. So, for instance, Miracle has good set bonuses and an awesome recovery proc, so miracle healing pieces can be worth substantially more than pieces with the same bonuses from other sets.
The next thing to do is check out what salvage is required. Keep in mind that procs below level 25 will use "cheap" orange salvage instead of the stuff that goes for 1.5-3M. But hey, once you're looking at something that sells for 20M, you may not care.
Finally, look at supply and demand for the recipes. If something sells occasionally for huge prices, it may not be worth trying to bid on it. If something sells moderately often for low prices, double-check the demand for the enhancement, because usually that should mean that it's pretty easy to get/make the enhancement.
But basically, a good niche is one where:
* The sum of materials plus recipe is solidly under 50% of the sale price of the enhancement.
* The enhancement sells more than one a week.
If you can find that, you're probably fine.
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everyone defines 'good' differently- in the case of my pvp IOs I was thinking "hmm, I can get these for 200 million and sell them for 600 million after the merger." Which is about what happened.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Care to expand on these?
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In my Goatrules thread I picked a defense set recipe I could buy for peanuts (10k each, i think?) that took junk salvage and didn't cost much to craft and sold the resulting IOs for a million or so each. That's also 'good' from a markup standpoint, although for me the profit was too minimal to bother with except to illustrate a point.
In the case of the niche I PM'ed you, materials and crafting were around 2 million and they sell for around 10 million with very high turnover- this is the sort of 'good' that's worth your while to pursue.
Thinking longer term, one of my best earners over the past few years has been low level -KB IOs. They've been consistently undervalued, to the point that I flip them for 4 or 5 times my purchase price. I've even 'outed' the niche here several times over the years without changing the dynamics appreciably.
I'd say anything that turns a profit is 'good'. The level of profit that makes a niche worthwhile to you is yours to define.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Does this thread answer some of your questions? What questions does it not help with?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
Does this thread answer some of your questions? What questions does it not help with?
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Actually yes. This goes a long ways towards understanding the "how" of a good niche.
Thank you Fulmens
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An alternative is to simply do straight 10 stacks of recipes.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
I looked into flipping recipes. Not really my thing. It could be, but that's something to look at later. I was/am more interested in straight flipping: I buy this for X and turn around and sell it for Y. Flipping recipes just doesn't appeal to me. I don't mind a 1-2mil profit, as long as its very little work.
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I did that with some popular recipe types, simply taking advantage of static. However, with markets merged they are more stable so that won't be quite as profitable.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
But here, there's no proficiency required to craft IOs; anybody can do it. However, from a logistical standpoint, bear in mind that level 50 toons have more inventory for salvage and recipes than, say, a level 10. So that's a significant factor. Also, I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're thinking just in terms of your personal inventory and the 15-18 market slots you've got. Whereas most players who craft commercially in CoX have a private Super Group base with storage facilities for salvage and crafted enhancements. (No such storage exists for recipes, however.)
Anyway, my point is, crafting is easy in this game, unlike in other games. But conversely, engineering shortages and overages is hard in this game, relative to some other games.
So, if you have a level 50, and a little SG base with a crafting table, an enhancement table and a couple storage racks for salvage, you will find the logistics of crafting IOs from recipes and salvage to sell for a profit to be quite simple.
But, like the previous poster said, if you're dealing in just one piece, it really only takes 5 or so market slots to keep a volume of them moving (usually), so you could deal in up to three high-profit niches at once, even if you don't have the private storage SG base.
You can move more volume or deal in more different pieces if you have the storage, though.
Hope that helps.
At this time, I am trying all 3 approaches. I am flipping salvage on 1 character. I am crafting enhancements across a level range on another. And finally, I have picked a level 50 with higher possible returns per sale. I am trying them all and documenting the pros and cons of each.
So far, the Salvage is by far the least time consuming. Its profitable, but not in a huge way. Estimated returns on a level 50 would be around 20-30 mil a week. This requires no more than 2 minutes a day on this character.
So far, the recipes across a range is the most time consuming as it eats up more space than a single recipe. Estimated returns on this set up are about 125 mil a week.
The middle of the road would be the single level 50. Using a similar sell rate as the multiple ranged set up, the estimated return for this set up is about 110 mil per week. If I can sell just 1 more of the 50 than the other, it jumps to 150 mil per week. These are much higher investment / sell. In the end, I may be off on volumes, but the mid range set I am working with is much higher % of profit than the 50.
*shrug* We'll see how it shakes out. In the end, even if I am dead wrong and none of my enhancements sell, that's ok. I'll use them up eventually