Ebil Marketeering... the "diet" version?

Update:

Experiment 1: Salvage flipping - This goes well! I am recreating it on a second toon and documenting things for a potential guide. I intend to have my 9 year old, who absolutely HATES the market (he makes his big brother do all of the purchasing and selling), try this out and see if he can make it work. If he can, anyone should be able to follow.

Exp 1a (original) has made 20 mil or so. Once again, could be more, but I have been neglecting him in favor of other endeavors.

Exp 1b (copy) has been through 4 different salvage. He didn't have the luck that 1a had in selecting his first product. After 4 attempts, we've narrowed in on another good one. This character started at 1 with no help from anyone. At level 4 he has amassed a very modest 2 mil. This should begin growing by quite a bit now that I've found a good product. I also need to level him a bit after a week to show potential at level 10 vs level 4.

Experiment 2: Mid level recipe crafting across several levels - This goes... well, it goes nowhere lol. I haven't sold a single IO in about 3 days. *sigh* Of the range that I was working on, only 1 IO has sold. This "might" work if you could find the ideal area to do it in, however, the lack of mid level salvage holds this back some. There are also less 30-40 players atm I expect. It may pick up, it may not. We'll see.

Experiment 3: Cheap level 50 IOs - attacking the cheapo market here. Thunderstrikes to be exact. When I opted in, 4 mil was the going rate. 4 days later, they have climbed up from the 500k bottom to almost 3.2mil. I have a bunch of competition and will likely sit on these for a long time. For me, the margins are way too tight and even a 1-2 mil fluctuation can kill any potential profit. I don't think I'll be getting back into this area (IOs at less than 5mil) any time soon.

Experiment 4: Mid level 50 IOs - I have tested and documented about 8 niches. As of right now, my limiter is market slots(15 slots at level 21). This character started with 150 mil "start up" money. Currently at 254mil with 100mil in product for sale and another 100mil in bids outstanding. The items I have decided to go with have a slower recipe sales rate, so I need to have more options than normal. Also, this causes the recipes to spike for near or sometimes over the IO price (silly, huh?). Bidding on stacks of 10 seems to get me about 3-5 recipes a day from at least 2 of the pools. This allow me to keep 10 or so sales posted most of the time.

Experiment 4a: Same thing as 4, extended - I am looking into more of a long term version of this experiment. I'm watching high priced IOs to see if prices remain constant. I feel that a lot of people aren't using their A Merits for target recipes, so I'm a bit leery about sticking hundreds into a slot only to have it collapse due to an influx of A Merit recipes.

LotG 7.5 is a perfect example of this imho. Before I18, LotG were 150-200mil 99% of the time. Occasionally you could snatch up a "sell it NAO!" for less, but it was a given that you were going to spend that much on them. Level 50 enhancements are now in the 120-150mil range with the recipe hanging around 100mil.

I think if I can find the "wow! I want to have that! but I'm willing to pay 70-90mil for it instead of using my merits which I intend to use for this other 'slightly more expensive IO'" market I'll be very happy. So far, my choices are also sliding down (numina's and such) to the point where there is virtually no difference between the cost and the sell price. So we'll see in a few weeks where everything shakes out.

there are alot of different market tactics, been trading now for 3-4y and funding alot of my SGs work and having all the purples i need, i feel proficient in trading. The choices i have made are

- only trade recipe, sell and buy (or maybe salvage but its very high maintenance if you have larger inf amount which need to be invested). Volume matters. The 10 pr. slot is crucial (sell 10 recipe with a 50% profit instead of 1 for 150%)
- Decide if you wanna do long term buy up of low volume recipes or will do high maintenance trading of high volume recipes. I have toons how do both, but never mix the 2 strategies on one toon. The goal is to ensure high buy/sell rate on high volume trader
- Never grow too attached to specific market niche(1 specific recipe for example), market fluctuates too much in coh imho, and if it didnt, too steady prices draws to much competitions as its easy money. So use 20-30% of trading time looking for trading items with positive development trends (a basic feel of why a recipe is worth the amount shown in history helps to spot positive trend, especially combined with knowledge of the game. Like when first wave of prea toons hit lvl50 and purples start raising, thats a trend)
- Only go all-in when market is generally in postive trend. Which means sometimes your inf is much better invested in your pocket as market is generally declining
- never be afraid to admit your wrong and take a loss and sell of bad investments under buy price, when you know you have been wrong, instead of having both inf and market slots tied up for a long period of time. Look at your market slots as potted plants, they need to be nurished with competitive priced stuff/sharp offers and they must give you a profit or be dealt with (well potted plants do actually give you a profit! or, well, ive been told, cause mine always seem to dies anyways)

you can see my buys in market by the x777.777 signature, anyone else have signatures they wanna share?

-Please dont call me Hallstorm
- Hailstorm, member of GGRRR, defiant

I'd put one small note on your experiments, Misaligned: Level 50 characters make "max level" recipes- level 40 Impervium Armors, level 35 kinetic combats, level 30 Steadfasts, etc. There's often a tighter supply of non-50 max level recipes,while still having a reasonable throughput. I think there's more money there than at 50, but there's plenty of money everywhere anyway...

Ed. my market signature is 908. I'm the only one using it that I know of.

Weekends have more chaos- I get more big sales AND more low bids filling on weekends. People show up Friday night, go "Doh! I didn't buy my newt eyeballs!" and throw money at the problem. Other people go "I got my newt eyeballs at level 33 AND 34!" and sell the extra.

I used to think there was a nice spike on Friday and Sunday nights with deep valleys during prime time as people throw stuff at Wents in a hurry. Now I'm not sure, but since the stuff sits around in its market slot the whole weekend, it doesn't really matter WHEN people throw money and/or recipes at me.

would be interesting to discuss market online with you guys, how about making an ebil marketeering channel? invite only ofc, to make it even more ebil and suspicious?

- Plz stop calling me Hallstorm -

Hailstorm, leader and founder of GGRRR, Defiant

Somehow, in all my trawling of the market forum, I've never come across that channel before. Thanks Chaos Creator.

Yup. We're an evil conspiracy with a loudspeaker and WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!!

Day 7 of "actual marketeering" update:

I see this whole process as having begun last Friday. That is when I started putting the knowledge gleaned here to work for me.

I am still running multiple experiments, and from those, I have learned a few things. Next monday I will begin fresh, with a character more suited to marketeering in an effort to see where I can take this as a casual marketeer.

Reminder of the experiments:

Straight Salvage flipping, or "Making money for the ambition impaired"

This is so easy its unreal. Its not huge money - at level 8, I have made about 30 mil in 7 days. I neglect him a LOT, and could likely double that amount.

At level 4, starting at 0 (replicating a brand new player) I am up to 10 mil. I am hampered more here by market and salvage slots than anything.

There is no thought involved in this process. You pick a thing. You bid X on that thing. You sell it for Y. Always. You never deviate. Money falls from the sky and you get not-so-poor.

Mid-Level Crafting of 1 Recipe across a range, or "How to fill your market slots for weeks at a time"

Meh. It was worth a shot. These don't move. Ever. Sold 1 in 7 days. I tried, I learned. I will be moving on

Cheap Max-Level IOs, or "How do you like watching your itty bitty profits dwindle?"

This is a great niche for some people. For me, the fact that a 2 mil fluctuation in price in a day means that my stock is now listed for more than they are going for. Listing it for less will allow me to break even. I don't have the patience or the inclination to stay in this market. I think it takes a special kind of person to do this. My Mom alway said I was special, but I don't think this is what she meant.

Max-Level IOs, or "Sticking it to the man for fun and profit!"

Seriously though, this is where the consistent good money is imo. The market wobbles a bit, but its usually not enough to cause too much stress. I did learn some VERY important things this past week:

• When you find a niche and try it out, don't go "all in". Make 2, list em, let it go. If you have absolute faith that its a honey pot, bid on the recipes x10 and maybe the rare salvage if you feel it will help. I went "all in" about 4 times. I'm a slow learner. So now I sit with some IOs that don't move very fast and I have a lot of recipes to craft. I will likely destroy the recipes. 2 or 3 at a time, max! You can always make a list of things you have done well at and check back in on them.
• Re-listing hurts, but not nearly as much as you think. I continue to have an issue with pulling and re-listing recipes. If you toss something up for 20mil, you pay... ready?... 1mil to list it. If it sits there for a week, how many times did you lose that 1mil again? Pull it - even when it hurts, and move on. This was and is hard for me still. I'll get over it
• For the incredibly lazy, such as me, make yourself a chart. Charts are good, m'kay? My chart is in excel and lists the purchase price for recipes. Then, based on whether or not the recipe requires a rare salvage, it has a set sell price. I look at what they are currently going for, and if I can get under the current selling price, its good. I may list something selling for 30mil at 16.3 because that's what my chart says. I'm ok with that. Making money is good. Making slightly less money with 0 effort is better
• Look at the lists others have provided. They aren't in every niche and you won't stomp on anyone's toes if you pop in and unload an enhancement or 2. If anything, re-evaluating their lists gives you a good idea of what "can" be good. I used Heff's and pulled a nice 100mil the other day while waiting for a friend to log in. Thanks Heff!

Heh, oh, that was like a month ago. I don't really work 'niches' the way others talk about. I sign on, scan for something that'll sell for a profit, buy it, craft it, list it, and do it again the next day. That's why if you look through the pics that didn't depost themselves in that thread, you'll see a LOT of bouncing around.