Earth still does it better imo. But played correctly I think Elec is up there too, it just requires a new mentality for control sets.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Personally I believe Earth still holds the crown. Earth can easily lock down multiple spawns with little effort. It also excels at location based controls.|
Originally Posted by ThePhlebotomist
Hi,
I've only teamed with Electric controllers and dominators through around level 26 so far, but even at early levels the set seems amazing. The AoE immobs + sleeps seem to be up almost all the time and I see few mobs left with endurance. My former favorite for control was Earth, but Electric seems even better. The controls may be soft controls, but together they're quite a force. Is Electric the new top set for control? |
Most Electrics can throw out two Static Field patches best case scenario. From what I have seen KB, AoEs, and DoTs will just ruin your ability to control mobs before you have them sapped if you rely on SF. Earth doesn't have this problem. The only other form of control available for an Electric is Paralyzing Blast, Jolting Chain, Synaptic Overload, and Conductive Aura. PB is on too long a timer to reliably have it up all the time. JC is up pretty often but lacks any punch to properly control until you IO it with procs. SO is up fairly often but is ineffective if the spawn is spread out too much (JC suffers from the same issue). SO also infects a spawn at a very slow pace making it highly likely that the chain will be broken if a jump is killed. Conductive Aura lets you drain spawns fairly effectively but the problem here is you can only be in one place at one time to do so and you are limited to 8 (??) targets.
Better that Earth (or Mind) I doubt it. I don't think its even close but that's my opinion based on beta and my current Elec/Rad that is @~40.
I found that Electric's benefits are large, fast moving teams are less than Earth control. This is mostly because the Sleep patch becomes less effective when AoE powers with DoT are used, as they invalidate the control aspect of Static Field. Rain of Fire, Ice Storm, Freezing Rain, etc have no problem with Earth Control.
Plus, much of the endurance drain requires the controller to go into melee, while an Earth controller can stay at range and even hide behind cover -- safer.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
It depends on what you're looking to do.
Electric is probably not the best at "control." However, neither is Illusion, and that set is still great.
Electric does do some things well:
- Only set in the game with a toggle power with negative endurance cost (i.e. it feeds endurance to you instead of the reverse)
- Provides powers that, because of their "chain" aspect, allow you to get around high defenses (an aspect many of the conversations about chains keep missing)
- Provides of a method of getting around status protection
- Only endurance drain set that allows you to mezz enemies first, and then drain them (other sets require you to endure the onslaught of damage if you don't instantly floor enemy's endurance)
- One of only 3 sets in the game that can mezz enemies prior to starting a fight
- One of only 2 Control sets that can slot Chance for Knockdown in the AoE cages
- Only set in the game to my knowledge that can slot single damage procs into an AoE (Jolting Chain)
- One of only 2 Control sets that gets two pets instead of 1 (or none)
None of this is to say the set is amazing, but IMO there's more to the story than just how much lockdown you can get.
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Illusion and Fire both have more than 1 pet.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
- One of only 2 Control sets that gets two pets instead of 1 (or none)
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Oh yeah that. Well kind of. Illusion is such a strange offshoot that it's hard to quantify it against other sets. It gets one "standard" pet, and that's more what I mean. The standard, buffable, with-you-till-it-runs-out-of-HP kind as opposed to the invulnerable, unbuffable Illusion-only type.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Illusion and Fire both have more than 1 pet.
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It was very nitpicky of me, wasn't it |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Oh yeah that. Well kind of. Illusion is such a strange offshoot that it's hard to quantify it against other sets. It gets one "standard" pet, and that's more what I mean. The standard, buffable, with-you-till-it-runs-out-of-HP kind as opposed to the invulnerable, unbuffable Illusion-only type.
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I agree with the crux of your post though, they made Elec interestingly different. It would have been easy just to slap the standard list of single and aoe mezzes together with Lightning Field and the imps and called it a day.
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Any control set can do this.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
- One of only 3 sets in the game that can mezz enemies prior to starting a fight
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| - Only set in the game to my knowledge that can slot single damage procs into an AoE (Jolting Chain) |
Your point is still very valid though, in that elec control is very unique.
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To get even stupidly pickier, Phantasm also spawns his own pet. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Oh yeah that. Well kind of. Illusion is such a strange offshoot that it's hard to quantify it against other sets. It gets one "standard" pet, and that's more what I mean. The standard, buffable, with-you-till-it-runs-out-of-HP kind as opposed to the invulnerable, unbuffable Illusion-only type.
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But the Decoy is also a invulnerable unbuffable type.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
lol. This set is by no means top dog, and I doubt there will be a set in the future to replace Earth. They are working toward different kinds of control sets so they can get more than cookie cutter sets of boring. I like the dev who worked on this set, and I hope he makes more like it. They have lots of room to expand, and I hope they explore. This set is about in the middle, of unique, cookie cutter, control and damage, oh and utility.
I think electric control competes with Illusion in terms of the strongest soft control set. Maybe earlier on, EC is better, but as IC matures, I think it is more effective end game.
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The only 'soft' control in Illusion is Spectral Terror, Confuse, and the sleep that occasionally ricochets off of Blind and pops a nearby other target. Soft control isn't really grabbing enemy attention with Phantom decoys, unless you want to get really technical with it.
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Originally Posted by HeroeMan
I think electric control competes with Illusion in terms of the strongest soft control set. Maybe earlier on, EC is better, but as IC matures, I think it is more effective end game.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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It depends on your definition of "Soft Control." Some folks consider "soft control" to be anything that does not set up Containment -- which means Sleep and Immob are "hard controls." Some folks consider "soft control" to be anything that does not prevent the foes from shooting back, which make Sleep, confuse and fear into "hard controls." Some Folks consider "soft control" to be anything that draws the attention of foes that is not a Hold or Stun.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The only 'soft' control in Illusion is Spectral Terror, Confuse, and the sleep that occasionally ricochets off of Blind and pops a nearby other target. Soft control isn't really grabbing enemy attention with Phantom decoys, unless you want to get really technical with it.
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I consider the "distraction" from Phantom Army to be a "soft control," to some degree because PA is in a Control powerset. It is, in some ways, similar to a confuse power causing the foes to waste their powers on somebody other than me and my team.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Electric has too much soft control and not enough hard control IMO.
On teams, all you basically have ready at your disposal for every spawn is Synaptic Overload (and if it misses that first target, you're up a creek) and it takes time to work - hardly conducive to a fast-moving team. Static Field is nice but mostly for it's -speed/recharge. That sleep is going to get broken repeatedly and when it does you can bet your life that any mobs not being actively attacked are all going to be gunning for you due to its aoe debuff.
Mostly, I'm annoyed at how little QUICK REACTIONARY AoE control Electric has. Even Ice has more: Ice Slick + AoE hold + AoE sleep -VS- AoE Sleep + AoE Hold. I don't count Synaptic Overload into this because of it taking so darn long to work; it's more of a power to be used several seconds before the fight starts.
I'm not trying to be flame-bait; it's just that after 42 levels on my electric control dom and reaching the point where builds start to shine, the character is stagnating. More often than not I find myself wondering what the heck do now since the set simply does not have the tools to keep up with teams.
Hardly the top control set, far from it.
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Team with another Elec/. Seriously. At level 14 a friend and I (both elec/rad) were able to pull all 9 Metronome Clockwork bosses and not take a single point of damage. They basically sat there, sapped and slept, until we whittled them away with containment and vet rewards. I think Elec has excellent control, especially if you take the time to inform your team of what you're going to do and why you're going to do it, and then what it'll mean for pulling. Communication is as effective as any playstyle.
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Originally Posted by kinaki
Electric has too much soft control and not enough hard control IMO.
On teams, all you basically have ready at your disposal for every spawn is Synaptic Overload (and if it misses that first target, you're up a creek) and it takes time to work - hardly conducive to a fast-moving team. Static Field is nice but mostly for it's -speed/recharge. That sleep is going to get broken repeatedly and when it does you can bet your life that any mobs not being actively attacked are all going to be gunning for you due to its aoe debuff. Mostly, I'm annoyed at how little QUICK REACTIONARY AoE control Electric has. Even Ice has more: Ice Slick + AoE hold + AoE sleep -VS- AoE Sleep + AoE Hold. I don't count Synaptic Overload into this because of it taking so darn long to work; it's more of a power to be used several seconds before the fight starts. I'm not trying to be flame-bait; it's just that after 42 levels on my electric control dom and reaching the point where builds start to shine, the character is stagnating. More often than not I find myself wondering what the heck do now since the set simply does not have the tools to keep up with teams. Hardly the top control set, far from it. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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It takes time to sap. It's nice to do once you have the spawn(s) already under control. I'm talking about quick reactionary control that can make the difference between a wipe and a win. Electric falls short here - it mainly only has its AoE sleep. On a GOOD team, electric control WILL feel inferior. On a slow, cautious team, sure it WILL feel powerful.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Team with another Elec/. Seriously. At level 14 a friend and I (both elec/rad) were able to pull all 9 Metronome Clockwork bosses and not take a single point of damage. They basically sat there, sapped and slept, until we whittled them away with containment and vet rewards. I think Elec has excellent control, especially if you take the time to inform your team of what you're going to do and why you're going to do it, and then what it'll mean for pulling. Communication is as effective as any playstyle.
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A good team should be cautious unless it's got two rads/a kin and a really hefty tanker. Then it can steamroll. On most teams I've found laying down Static Field and then standing it it takes all of 15 seconds to totally end-sap any mobs around me/in the auras. I then give the green to my team and they swoop in and trash the poor guys before they can attack. Chain Fences Keep them in place, Jolting Chain keeps them on the floor, Paralyzing Blast for emergencies.
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Originally Posted by kinaki
It takes time to sap. It's nice to do once you have the spawn(s) already under control. I'm talking about quick reactionary control that can make the difference between a wipe and a win. Electric falls short here - it mainly only has its AoE sleep. On a GOOD team, electric control WILL feel inferior. On a slow, cautious team, sure it WILL feel powerful.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I've played a lot of control sets, and it seems to me that the Elec set is lacking in hard controls. I suspect this is because end drain is a hard control. Every power contributes to draining endurance, often with a chance to prevent end recovery.
The end drain takes a while to happen, especailly if you can't stand in the middle of the pack. However, once a group is drained you can keep them drained indefinitely.
In the time it takes for end to drain completely, a team facing a trivial enemy will have wiped the pack out. A team facing a real challenge will still be fighting - and suddenly the challenge becomes a lot less challenging.
It seems to me that the problem has more to do with what you fight and who's on your team. You're basically missing a major hard control on any fight that's over quickly - but if the fight's over quickly, did you really need that much control? You can still use the AOE sleep to defuse an alpha strike or as an endurance tool, and it'll be back up momentarily in case you trigger an ambush mid-pack.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Originally Posted by Hart
It seems to me that the problem has more to do with what you fight and who's on your team. You're basically missing a major hard control on any fight that's over quickly - but if the fight's over quickly, did you really need that much control? You can still use the AOE sleep to defuse an alpha strike or as an endurance tool, and it'll be back up momentarily in case you trigger an ambush mid-pack.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
You should try a electric/heal support sometime. Its sickening how much influence you have in battles. I recall one of my teams in sheer panic cause of a huge ambush incoming and we just had two clusters agro... I just planted myself down by the group...SF,chain,jolt, heal..rinse and repeat... not one person went in red or even 50% health...and my stamina bar stayed full.
My god I have built the super healer with never ending stamina pool! =p
I would like to mention I have a Earth/Rad who is also very solid and I love to. But he doesn't touch my electric in the game of stamina battles. I feel like I am too strong in the sense of team support build.
really I do...sure I cant kill a rikiti monkey without brawl or sands of mu. put me on a team and they are a powerhouse no matter what the make up.
And when you get ambushed immediately after using your sleep elsewhere for its debuff, what do you do then? Synaptic Overload takes too long to run its course and Paralyzing Blast might be down. Whereas something like ice might have ice slick to back you up, you're left wishing you had another AoE control on electric. This is not theory, this is what has been happening to me.
Edit: response to previous posts, DogTags - though could be a response to your post as well; what if your SF had been down?
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I use jolting first thing to stop them in their tracks..then hit chain fences ... I then just simply repeat those two to keep the sap going and interrupting with jolt till sleep is ready (that is if it is needed). |
Originally Posted by kinaki
And when you get ambushed immediately after using your sleep elsewhere for its debuff, what do you do then? Synaptic Overload takes too long to run its course and Paralyzing Blast might be down. Whereas something like ice might have ice slick to back you up, you're left wishing you had another AoE control on electric. This is not theory, this is what has been happening to me.
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Some builds may find this tougher..since I am a empathy guy...no problem. I am controlling and healing.
Edit: in heat of battle sometimes my team will sit on my SF anyway...so even if some mobs get past my reaction times...they get slept on the current SF.
Cons: I have one flaw in teams. I do need a team that grabs agro off me asap...all the time. Be it a cor , defender, blaster, ..what ever...just keep the mobs angry at you.. If my team does that, I can heal through it all for them ..and sap everything down. Clearing up this Con a bit. Things like Boss mobs.
They resist everything i have often sometimes. (depending if we are on +3 or something) Any mob that is hard hitting that doesn't get slept,zaped, teslad that is chasing me around...is my bane.
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Out of curiosity how is your Jolting Chain and Chained Fences slotted?
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Originally Posted by DogTags
I use jolting first thing to stop them in their tracks..then hit chain fences ... I then just simply repeat those two to keep the sap going and interrupting with jolt till sleep is ready (that is if it is needed).
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My SF has enough recharge in it that I can chain it indefinitely. Also, if I use Accelerate Metabolism and Hasten at the same time I can usually stack two on top of eachother for about 15 seconds. Makes for incredible sapping and phenomenal endurance return. Teams LOVE me, especially tankers! "I'm out of end, hang on." *Static Field on his herd* "... Dude, what? Thanks!"
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Originally Posted by kinaki
And when you get ambushed immediately after using your sleep elsewhere for its debuff, what do you do then? Synaptic Overload takes too long to run its course and Paralyzing Blast might be down. Whereas something like ice might have ice slick to back you up, you're left wishing you had another AoE control on electric. This is not theory, this is what has been happening to me.
Edit: response to previous posts, DogTags - though could be a response to your post as well; what if your SF had been down? |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Hi,
I've only teamed with Electric controllers and dominators through around level 26 so far, but even at early levels the set seems amazing. The AoE immobs + sleeps seem to be up almost all the time and I see few mobs left with endurance.
My former favorite for control was Earth, but Electric seems even better. The controls may be soft controls, but together they're quite a force.
Is Electric the new top set for control?