/fix_pvp
I see a lot of posts these days about how bad pvp is, and while I agree with them to an extent, not that many people seem to make suggestions on how to fix it, besides the typical "derp, roll it back to i13!".
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Remove all IOs |
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Increase the radius drastically and have most offensive toggles afflict the enemy with a strong slow/taunt (the taunts only for scrappers, brutes, and tanks) for 5 seconds upon entering it. |
More rewards for the more dedicated PVPers. |
These could range from costume pieces, badges, SG base items (for pvp meeting sg based pvp badges), temp powers, and more. The majority of these will be awarded from system created arena tournaments with entry fees. |
Add an inspiration vendor during setup period when you start a match with inspirations on. |
Because it takes skill to use the proper insps, and you need to encourage new players to learn that. Of course, if you were to use insps during setup, they would get removed when the match starts. |
In short, return things to how they used to be and go from there. This is honestly not a hard concept, but it would require the devs to admit failure on their part, which probably will never happen.
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
The reason this gets suggested so much is because it's the simplest solution which would require the least amount of effort to maintain balance in the future. |
No. You'll notice that heavily-IOd builds weren't nearly as necessary as they were before the I13 changes. Reverting would solve that. IOs are fine - if you put the time and effort into getting them, your character should be better. It really is that simple. |
No. Slows should slow, damage powers should damage. Adding secondary effects to powers that shouldn't have them is a bad idea. |
You do realize that none of the rewards you listed interest dedicated PvPers, at all (except perhaps the base items for base raids, but it'll probably be I30 or so by the time those get re-enabled)? Things like free 50s or free accolades might, but other than that, no. |
There is already an inspiration vendor at the arenas. While it would be nice to have an in-UI inspiration store (especially for the /arenalist command), I don't think it'll happen. |
In short, return things to how they used to be and go from there. This is honestly not a hard concept, but it would require the devs to admit failure on their part, which probably will never happen. |
There should be no difference between powers for PvE to PvP.
We all level our toons though PvE, we know how to play them stremgths & weaknesses via PvE.
To implement a different system for PvP, and expect new players to come in, and then get wrecked because thier toon doesn't preform like its meant to, and expect that player to return for more is just plain stupid.
Everyone knew how to cope before, breakfrees & greens for those that needed them. If you got beat on the old system, you either need different strategy, team make-up, or dare i say...practice.
Just like in PvE all AT's should have a purpose, or should be able to find a purpose, and with the system they have in place its just not plausible.
They want to fix it? Then they need to START with rolling it back, and build from there.
No just roll it back to where it was at before they f'ed everything up. It was balanced. My tank was a tank, not a tin man, blasters could blast, fenders could heal, trollers could control, scrappers could scrap, corrs could corrupt, stalkers could stalk, domi's could dominate, MM's could control minions etc.
PVP now means a tank can get two shotted, blasters are invulnerable and anyone with a defense cannot be touched. Thats why pvp sucks in this game. Not to mention they're are not any incentives to PVP.
lose diminishing returns, make it so that buffs do not stack even from different sources to offset diminishing returns and to vary support roles, scale back heal decay a bit but not completely, go back to pve travel suppression, add in partially unresisted effects to key parts of classes, tweak as needed
Revert to i12 derp.
I stop reading after "remove IO's". Who know's what the devs are going to do with pvp. I have a feeling pvp is about to get looked at at again. COH is under new management. (war witch) Let's hope they don't screw it up again. Maybe war witch knows what the hell she is doing. Unlike the other guy that was in charge. (posi).
Honestly, the devs are probably not going to revert back to i12, so any good suggestions we make are pretty much fantasy at this point.
Working within the constraints of diminished returns, and from a 99% zone scrubs perspective, i would like to see:
1)An overall lowering of the diminished returns curve so it plateaus at later numbers for almost any bonus. basically this is so that squishies can still benefit from external buffs while melee toons who are already quite survivable dont become overpowered by them. so maybe adjust on a per-AT basis like it already is......sorry if that aint clear enough.
2)extend base mez durations for controllers/doms, so they can actually do what they're meant to, that or shorten mez durations for all other ATs.
3)rework the knockback system. As it stands having to build your toons for certain ammounts of knockback points isnt too much of an inconvenience. However, for newer players and those like myself who enjoy min-maxing, this cut into a lot of the fun factor of pvp. I'd like to see some kind of hybrid between the old and new system here, maybe making it possible to slot acro for enough knockback protection or acro and 1 or 2 kb IOs.
4)Heal decay needs to be completely reworked, possibly so that self-heals dont effect external heals or something of that sort. I like the concept, it just became too much though especially for zone.
5)Travel suppression is the one thing I think would be best reverting back to i12. You could cut the ammount of suppression in half and it would still be a pain in the ****.
Thats about all i can think of right now, however i would like to see an emphasis on improving zones and drop rates. As it stands right now, zone games are non-existant. Itd be cool to have some kind of concept, i'll leave that to the more creative people though.
A BIG improvment to me, would be to add a different pvpo drop system for buffers. Getting a kill on an emp is a rare task. Now I'm not saying it's impossible, but I get the feeling that has a factor in why we saw a disappearence in buffers in i13. A lot of people want to get their rewards for participating, and if you're the reason why a zone gets overturned from base camping, yet you get no reward, you might feel inclined to stick with whatever build does the most damage while surviving a considerable ammount.
It'd be cool to have some kind of timer like every 2 or 3 hours in zone results in a random pvpo drop, or every X ammount of rep earned by the team results in a pvpo drop for everyone. Obviously I don't want them dropping so often that they lose their value completely, but a small addition to the current system could be an easy change with very positive side effects...
These were just a few quick thoughts, please feel free to ignore them. I just wanted to get my point across that the devs will do what they want to the system, so Ithink we should work on suggestions for zones, as that is generally the starting place for new players and (I think) is more likely to get dev attention. Sorry for any lack of attention regarding spelling/punctuation. -------dill
P.S. I think a major part of the reason for the devs lack of major pvp attention is because of the incarnate system, and as such we should probably wait to see the system before making suggestions.
If not, at least:
-Make cages useful
-Examine DR curves
-Make shield buffers useful
-Lower base resists or remove them
-Buff Assassin's Strike/Blow
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
give defenders back unresisted debuff's.
Definately revert travel suppression back to I-12, being attacked and getting suppressed is just so lame.
Cut back on the Heal Decay to actually allow a healing type support toon to be able to do their primary job.
many others but this would be a good start.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
give defenders back unresisted debuff's.
Definately revert travel suppression back to I-12, being attacked and getting suppressed is just so lame. Cut back on the Heal Decay to actually allow a healing type support toon to be able to do their primary job. many others but this would be a good start. |
I think PvPers should start a PvP Community on their own. A helpful PvP channel without all the BS talk. 3 Strikes you are out of the PvP community.
I know a lot of people that would like to PvP but don't because they don't know how to build a toon with IOs. How about NCSoft build a Mids for their customers, for both PC & Mac users.
Also, they don't have the money to craft IOs so this leads to more farming. I do like the Hero & Villain reward merits idea to help solve this issue.
Just my thoughts on the fix. By the way, great ideas guys!! Keep them coming.
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
open pvp server rule set plz
This game's PvP population is already too spread out and you want to spread it out even more?
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
In the least, I would want them to remove travel suppression and heal decay. Then, it would actually be bearable to go into the zones. Now I find arena PvP a lot more fun because that stuff can be turned off.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I'm a little surprised that this hasn't really changed in the year I've been away.
As has been said by many before, the first thing is getting the devs to devote the time to the issue.
The best way to do this would be to assign a dedicated employee to PvP powers
I think the character name for said employee should be obvious... unless some other dev already took that one?
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
He sure did, and ever since I have wanted whatever drug it was he was on when he said it, because if it alters one's reality that much I could sell it for a fortune.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
He sure did, and ever since I have wanted whatever drug it was he was on when he said it, because if it alters one's reality that much I could sell it for a fortune.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
According to some crap I just made up, PvP will be fixed again in i20. It will involve trading cards and incarnates will get extra cards. Psoma will have the only well rationed response but will re-read this post and subsequently yell at me for 2 hours straight on vent for giving the devs this idea.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Awesome idea Slax. The card theme fits in with their current booster pack plan. Emotes for all.
I see a lot of posts these days about how bad pvp is, and while I agree with them to an extent, not that many people seem to make suggestions on how to fix it, besides the typical "derp, roll it back to i12!". So instead of just sittin there saying the same stuff over and over about how bad it is, I decided to take a step in the right direction and offer the devs some ideas on how they could change it. I strongly encourage you guys to read everything before posting.
First of all, the devs need ways to attract new players into pvp, which they failed to do when they added all of those penalties and made a lot of powersets worthless.
Add new pvp enhancements that drop on a rate of about 1 per 3 kills, more or less. They will be no trade, and specific ones for each powerset and power. They will be exchangeable for other enhancements that your powerset uses. Other then that, they'll be special enhancements for some powers, like increased stealth for hide, longer dot duration for fire powers, and mainly secondary effects and procs. They'll give minor set bonuses, and they'll have the same % change of regular SOs. (A couple of these will be able to be placed into a power multiple times, like the stealth ones for hide.) (There will also be HOish pvp enhancements.)
Examples of some of the special enhancements that could be made:
Fire Blast: DOT duration
Hide:Stealth
Bitter Ice Blast:Chance for Immobilize
Golden Dragonfly: Chance for non-resistible (bleed) dot
Stone Melee: Chance for +Recharge
Scramble Thoughts: Chance for 5 Second Placate
Fire Imps: Chance for +2 imps
Lightning Bolt: Chance for sleep
Have offensive powers rely a LOT more on they're secondary effects. Like the slows from ice powers/spines, the dot damage from fire powers, the -recharge from psi powers, KB/stuns from energy powers, -res from sonic, sleep/end mod from electric, -tohit from dark, status effects, etc. Have the powers that do minor secondary effects do a tad bit more damage (like katana, NB, rad, and DB), and even more for powersets that dont have secondary effects (AR, Archery, etc.) but overall lower the damage of pretty much everything a bit also.
Increase the radius drastically and have most offensive toggles afflict the enemy with a strong slow/taunt (the taunts only for scrappers, brutes, and tanks) for 5 seconds upon entering it. This would make melee characters/going into melee way more viable in pvp. The slowing thing wouldn't be able to stack (looking at you, fire manipulation and DA). Quills, hotfeet, and other certain powers wouldn't get the severe 5 second slow, but will still slow. Powers like mud pots and chilling embrace will have a larger radius and a longer slow time.
Regen and SR for scraps are SoL.
More rewards for the more dedicated PVPers. These could range from costume pieces, badges, SG base items (for pvp meeting sg based pvp badges), temp powers, and more. The majority of the rewards I listed will be awarded from system created arena matches with entry fees, but there would of course be even better rewards for the really dedicated pvpers.
Add an inspiration vendor during setup period when you start a match with inspirations on. Because it takes skill to use the proper insps, and you need to encourage new players to learn that. Of course, if you were to use insps during setup, they would get removed when the match starts.
The Basics:
No more dirty DR, treacherous TS, horrible HD, default resistances, worthless status effects, crap cages. Adding these didn't help new players, it just gave them more stuff that they gotta learn about before they can be actually decent in pvp.
Increase the max health pools for most ATs.
Along with cages lasting for about 8 seconds, make it so caging a phased player will un-phase him.
Re-implement status protection. Give ATs like fenders, corrs, non-dwarf khelds, and trollers base protection points to most status effects.
Increase status effect times drastically. Controllers would get the longest ones, doms would get the second longest, and then everything else.
ATs:
Stalkers: Stalkers are, to me, pretty damn balanced. Sure, things like sh4rk5 would have to be nerfed into oblivion, but still you can pretty much leave them as is. Increase the damage of AS to compensate for the higher health pools. Stalkers would also now be able to skip stealth, and slot hide for 2 stealth enhancements, or just pick up stealth and slot either hide or stealth for 1 stealth enhancement.
Brutes: Increase fury generation, decrease fury degradation by a lot. You could also add like a 5-10 second buff (+damage, regeneration, recovery) when a brute hits max fury, but there would also have to be maybe a 10-20 second period where you couldn't gain rage after it (it would be either a passive or click type power).
Masterminds: MMs wouldn't really need that much new changes. Have new MMs get a command to put their pets into BG mode, because it pains me to see lvl 50 MMs that don't know what it is (even though the free kills are cool ).
Dominators: Their holds will be longer, sleeps make you sleepier, and roots make you rooty-er, which is all good in my book. They're the controller-blaster hybrid, so thats what they should be, the perfect balance of damage/holds. Domination should be a lot harder to achieve (but with a lot less degradation), but when they do, they'll also get the old +damage along with the current affects of domination. Increased melee damage from the melee attacks in the assault pools.
Corruptors: I haven't really played them that much in pvp (aside from my rad/kin who does pretty good as a end-drainer/support these days) but from what I can tell they'd probably be O.K. with the changes I listed above.
VEATs: Never bothered to level one past 20, so I wouldn't know what changes these guys need.
Blasters: Higher HP for other ATs, lower damage for blasters, and more effective status effects would (hopefully) make it so people don't immediately go for the powersets who can put out the most damage/give up on ones who can't. Increased melee damage, and electricity, fire, ice, and mental manipulation would all get the 5 second extreme slow added to their offensive auras (blazing aura for fire), making lolBlappers semi-viable in pvp.
Controllers: There mezs, cages, debuffs, slows, pets, and for some powersets damage should all get a much needed buff, so Illusion and Mind won't be the only useful primaries on teams. They're secondaries would probably be O.K. with the changes I listed above.
Tanks: Tanks would of course be really durable, but with rather low damage, the way they were meant to be. My only tank is level 38, so I can't really comment on they're status in pvp right now.
Scrappers: To me, scrappers would be O.K. with changes I listed above.
Kheldians: Never bothered to level one past 20, so I don't know what changes these guys need.
Defenders: I love the new inherent change to these guys, and the changes that I listed above would make them great for support/buffing again.
And thats about it. Tell me what you guys thought about them, what was the good, the bad, and the just plain insane. Or just commence with the flaming, idc.
TL;DR: TS babeh