Hail of Bullets annoys me.


Arbegla

 

Posted

The 60% chance to damage really annoys me. I understand it's unique and thematic and different, but that doesn't translate into "good." As I understand it, the power is supposed to be wild and potentially inaccurate. Why not just give it like 50% to-hit, balance the damage and recharge around that, and then make it "thematic" in the sense that as your character becomes more skilled with the power, he gets more accurate (slotting). This solves two issues.

A. The mechanics don't rely on a hard-coded gimmick
B. You get incentive to build and slot a certain way to improve your abilities.

It's so bad, they then had to go out of the way to make it worthwhile by adding a defense buff to it just to prevent it from being an automatic death sentence while you're twirling around in the air shooting butterflies and giving the bad guys a hair cut and a close trim with bullets that only have a 60% chance of actually doing anything.

I guess I don't like it for the reason I don't like powers like Strength of Will and One With the Shield. The whole game is built on the ability for players to modify and customize their powers. That idea is burned into my brain after years of playing. Having powers where common aspects you're used to modifying are hard-coded and unenhanceable just doesn't jive well, despite the fact that they are "balanced" around it.

Quick question about HoB, though. Does it have a to-hit check at all, or is it "auto-hit" in the sense that it can't miss, and relies on the 60% chance to damage? If it does have a hit check... that's even more lame.


 

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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
I guess I don't like it for the reason I don't like powers like Strength of Will and One With the Shield. The whole game is built on the ability for players to modify and customize their powers. That idea is burned into my brain after years of playing. Having powers where common aspects you're used to modifying are hard-coded and unenhanceable just doesn't jive well, despite the fact that they are "balanced" around it.
Most people like SoW and OWtS because they don't have a crash. You can't increase the recharge, but other Tier 9s like Unstoppable can't be made perma, either. The recharge is purposely put too high to do so. And with the non-crash ones, you can still increase the defense or resistance they offer... so you CAN modify those powers as you see fit, just not the recharge.

HoB is just different. It still hits a lot of stuff and does a lot of aoe damage... haven't noticed too much issue with it.


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc:
Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
A. The mechanics don't rely on a hard-coded gimmick
"Hard-coded gimmicks are" actually substantially more common than you might expect. Critical, Scourge, the Dual Blades combos, and many, many others are just as hard coded so it's not like "hard-coded gimmicks" are somehow a bad thing.

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B. You get incentive to build and slot a certain way to improve your abilities.
The problem with this is that it starts becoming audaciously easy to manipulate such a system. The 60% chance allows the devs to prevent the damage from becoming completely crazy. Imagine what would happen if the attack had a .7 accmod (half of the 1.4 accmod I'm recalling off the top of my head since City of Data is down atm): with some baseline acc slotting (33%) and slotted BU (23.4% +tohit), you'd be able to deal more damage than a crashing nuke. Acc and Tohit are so easy to get in substantial numbers that any reasonable accmod (i.e. doesn't make it useless in the hands of a lowbie) would be completely laughable to break.

HoB already presents all of the same slotting incentives that every other power in the game does in the exact same ways. The fact that it has chances to deal damage doesn't change that at all. If it were changed as you suggest, you'd be providing more ways to improve it than there already are so you'd be making it better than it already is for no particular reason.


 

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The 60% chance for damage makes perfect thematic sense when you look at the animation of the power. When you're flailing yourself around like that firing handguns in random directions you can't really expect it to be that accurate.

If you wanted to make it even MORE realistic, it should cause Fear and stand a small chance of hitting any allies that happen to be within it's radius. You're pretty much firing guns indiscriminately around you, and bullets don't know who's on your side or not. It's not going to happen because there's no friendly fire in CoH, but that would be the likely result if you were to actually fire two guns like that.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
The 60% chance for damage makes perfect thematic sense when you look at the animation of the power. When you're flailing yourself around like that firing handguns in random directions you can't really expect it to be that accurate.

If you wanted to make it even MORE realistic, it should cause Fear and stand a small chance of hitting any allies that happen to be within it's radius. You're pretty much firing guns indiscriminately around you, and bullets don't know who's on your side or not. It's not going to happen because there's no friendly fire in CoH, but that would be the likely result if you were to actually fire two guns like that.
Any power that'd have a chance to damage teammates gets my automatic approval


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

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I've read this complaint many times, but honestly never understood it. In practice, HoB still does a significant amount of damage for being a crashless nuke.


Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider

RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run

 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If you wanted to make it even MORE realistic, it should cause Fear and stand a small chance of hitting any allies that happen to be within it's radius. You're pretty much firing guns indiscriminately around you, and bullets don't know who's on your side or not. It's not going to happen because there's no friendly fire in CoH, but that would be the likely result if you were to actually fire two guns like that.
Rofl. I would have to hear even more ******** if they ended up doing that.

"OMFG a DP blaster AND U JUST KILLED ME! WTF GTFO MY TEAM!"


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
The 60% chance for damage makes perfect thematic sense when you look at the animation of the power. When you're flailing yourself around like that firing handguns in random directions you can't really expect it to be that accurate.

If you wanted to make it even MORE realistic, it should cause Fear and stand a small chance of hitting any allies that happen to be within it's radius. You're pretty much firing guns indiscriminately around you, and bullets don't know who's on your side or not. It's not going to happen because there's no friendly fire in CoH, but that would be the likely result if you were to actually fire two guns like that.


Wait, are you pulling a realism argument into this place?


"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
It's so bad, they then had to go out of the way to make it worthwhile by adding a defense buff to it just to prevent it from being an automatic death sentence while you're twirling around in the air shooting butterflies and giving the bad guys a hair cut and a close trim with bullets that only have a 60% chance of actually doing anything.
The good news is, you've given me an idea for a new "shave and a haircut" battlecry bind.

And any power that gives me a random chance of shooting butterflies is win with me - second only to the suggestion to have a "BANG!" flags ammo type.

I do love the power, but is it wrong that my favorite use of it comes during the 52 card pickup part of the /em cardtrick animation?


The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies

 

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DP.....bleh....stupidly enough i'll play assault rifle over it....ofcourse my friend shawn will strangle me with the "its fun and it lookz so coolz!" Yeah but.....stuff wont die damnit!


 

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Originally Posted by Rinkoz View Post
DP.....bleh....stupidly enough i'll play assault rifle over it....ofcourse my friend shawn will strangle me with the "its fun and it lookz so coolz!" Yeah but.....stuff wont die damnit!


Yeah, unfortunately, looking cool is the only thing you're going to be doing as a DP character.
-"I spent 10 seconds twirling around like an idiot and nothing died. Well, at least I looked cool while doing nothing."


"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.

 

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Originally Posted by Faolon View Post
Wait, are you pulling a realism argument into this place?
Not really.

Just pointing out that the chance for damage makes sense in the context of the animation.

The defense it gives you makes sense too, enemies aren't likely to be as accurate while they are diving for cover

I was kidding about the second part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If you wanted to make it even MORE realistic, it should cause Fear and stand a small chance of hitting any allies that happen to be within it's radius. You're pretty much firing guns indiscriminately around you, and bullets don't know who's on your side or not.
I strongly suggest this change be made, and that it be called the Dick Cheney rule.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe View Post
Someone give this man teh internets. He just won.
Do I get a consolation prize for setting it up for him?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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"I was tanking recluse when all of the sudden this DP blaster went all dick cheney on the towers and ended up shooting me in the face!"


 

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U know I would probably take boomerang attacks over dp they probably coulda did more with it, ofcourse then we'd have a bunch of robin's father's killer running around but that would have been interesting to see a power set with a double attack chances and they could still pull off the dp damage if it has a chance to attack twice anyway. But im getting off subject here >_>.....


 

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"Okay, guys we've almost got the hamidon down. Okay, [generic spy name here], do your stuff! Everyone back off! BACK OFF!


 

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Honestly, I had no idea it was a 60% chance to hit until I started reading this thread, then looked at the power. I'm so used to jumping into a mob, hitting it, and watching all of the minions and most, if not all of the lieutenants go down. While I may not completely like the idea, I can't say it's affected me enough that I have any complaints.


 

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Doesn't it still do more damage then full auto, when you average out the 60% chance for damage, and its higher target caps? on a slightly higher recharge? (plus fire ammo + HoB = higher damage for free)


 

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Originally Posted by Faolon View Post
Yeah, unfortunately, looking cool is the only thing you're going to be doing as a DP character.
-"I spent 10 seconds twirling around like an idiot and nothing died. Well, at least I looked cool while doing nothing."
Even looking cool is largely debatable. I think they look ridiculous as all hell, to be honest.


 

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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
The 60% chance to damage really annoys me.
It isn't 60% chance to do damage, it is 60% chance per tick to do damage.

I still don't know how my results with every powerset I play are so different from the norm. Every time I use HoB the pack dies and they die in less than the time it takes the Archery character next to me to animate Rain of Arrows.


 

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
Even looking cool is largely debatable. I think they look ridiculous as all hell, to be honest.
It's an aesthetic thing. If they had gone for a different style, people would have wished they went for they style they had now. Kind of the way it goes. I don't really care for the look of the Claws Widows get, and I've never been able to get into Claws in general because of that one ranged attack it has, and it seems ridiculous to me. Doesn't mean the set doesn't work and people don't like it, though.

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Originally Posted by Krogoth View Post
It isn't 60% chance to do damage, it is 60% chance per tick to do damage.

I still don't know how my results with every powerset I play are so different from the norm. Every time I use HoB the pack dies and they die in less than the time it takes the Archery character next to me to animate Rain of Arrows.
Your results aren't different from the norm. Before even playing Dual Pistols, I saw it doing as well as other blast sets in groups. Playing it on my own, I can see it's on par with all the other sets I've run with.

Numbers put it as a middle of the road set, too, so it gets the job done. I'm not sure what the deal is for some with the set. I've pretty much put it down to people wanting anything new to be the 100% best, as nothing else really makes sense after all the posts I've seen on the subject.


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc:
Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory