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But in the hands of skilled player, KB can help the team by knocking runners back into debuff patches. One of my favorite things to do with Hurricane is gently push targets into my Freezing Rain patch.|
Originally Posted by Wiccania
An easy majority of the time the presence of KB dramatically reduces the effectiveness of everybody on the team. On almost every team I have joined by telling the KBer to stop doing so our kill speed went up noticably.
Many power sets rely on area effect. Electric Control is just one of them with Static Field, Conductive Aura and the Chains. Radiation Emission has two anchored AoE debuffs, I assure you, you are slowing down the team by knocking the anchors away or knocking enemies en-mass out of thier effect. There are numerous ground fields that dramatically affect the ease of defeating enemies: Quicksand, Earthquake, Tar Patch, Ice Slick, Freezing Rain, Sleet, Caltrops, Oil Slick Arrow and I'm probably missing a few. Everybody loves Fire Blasters, I know I do, but a fire blaster loses a lot of effectiveness when half the enemy pack is knocked away. Fire Blasters are far from the only AoE attackers too. Knockback is simply put the worst kind of damage mitigation. It extends the life of enemies far more than it extends the life of the player team. |
Granted, it takes alot of skill to get to that point. You have to know alot about how your power performs, and how it performs against what targets. A Freakshow tank doesn't punt like a Rikti monkey.
It's also one of the most badass ways to finish off a target, booting their limp body down the block into a crowd of their buddies. (how this does not aggro the next mob, I'll never know.)
In the hands of a novice player, yeah, it can make a right mess of things. It becomes the bratty kid that jumps into your nice neat pile of leaves.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
I admit after leveling up my stormie I am still butt hurt about using KB in fear of getting kicked but I still don't let that stop me from enjoying certain sets. I admit it is weird for elec control to be so melee oriented...I might just go back to trying out an elec/storm corr...even though I hate elec blast with a passion lol.
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I will say that Energy Assault works just fine, though. You don't have any area knockback in the secondary, just single target knockback, so it is a lot easier to deal with. I'm enjoying my Electric/Energy Assault Dominator. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Well that does say one thing for Elec Control. It will make you hate Energy Blast and wreckless Storm Summoners all over again.
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Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Not only can knockback increase the clumping of enemies for AoE (if used competently), your entire complaint is about AREA knockback only. You're keenly aware of area damage powers, yet you make no distinction between area and single-target knockback.|
Originally Posted by Wiccania
An easy majority of the time the presence of KB dramatically reduces the effectiveness of everybody on the team. On almost every team I have joined by telling the KBer to stop doing so our kill speed went up noticably.
Many power sets rely on area effect. Electric Control is just one of them with Static Field, Conductive Aura and the Chains. Radiation Emission has two anchored AoE debuffs, I assure you, you are slowing down the team by knocking the anchors away or knocking enemies en-mass out of thier effect. There are numerous ground fields that dramatically affect the ease of defeating enemies: Quicksand, Earthquake, Tar Patch, Ice Slick, Freezing Rain, Sleet, Caltrops, Oil Slick Arrow and I'm probably missing a few. Everybody loves Fire Blasters, I know I do, but a fire blaster loses a lot of effectiveness when half the enemy pack is knocked away. Fire Blasters are far from the only AoE attackers too. Knockback is simply put the worst kind of damage mitigation. It extends the life of enemies far more than it extends the life of the player team. |
People complain about single-target knockback mostly because of comments like this they see on the forums, never realizing that if a Scrapper Crane Kicks one guy out of the AoE, he's going to finish that one guy off in a second or two and the AOE isn't going to be wasted. Same with Energy Blasters using their single-target attacks.
edit: Oh hey, UnicyclePeon makes almost the same point in the post right above me. I shoulda read the whole thread.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Just because I didnt put the effort into distinguishing in a single post doesn't mean I don't. Yes my complaint is with Area Knockback. Yes I know single target knockback is fine because as you said, most folks that use it will pursue and slay the single target. Sorry if I offended you by assuming folks have a lick of sense and can identify the difference.
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I gave up my elec/rad for this same reason. Sure you can scale down the particle count but still it blinds your team mates.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
My only complaint about Elec/Rad is the visuals. After dumping both debuff toggles and laying down Static FIeld I can't see crap.
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They'll be fine they are just jealous of your awesome.
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Originally Posted by Adelie
I gave up my elec/rad for this same reason. Sure you can scale down the particle count but still it blinds your team mates.
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There is nothing awesome about a pulsing sleep......
Freedom Bound!!!
Just started a elec/rad, so far enjoying myself even as a 5th lvl troller.
/Empaths can turn three people into Jesus, one person into God, and everyone else into the twelve apostles.~Angry_Citizen
Don't you know that discussion of power selection/slotting can ONLY be based on hearsay, rumor, idle speculation, and bald-faced lies??!? ~Elf_Sniper
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Whether or not people can identify the difference doesn't mean that they have any sense. After receiving a couple of complaints, I tend to warn people with melee characters while playing my Mind/Energy Dominator when I get on a team. It typically goes something along the lines of "If I knock something away from you, don't chase it and just switch targets. It'll be dead before it hits the ground anyway."|
Originally Posted by Wiccania
Sorry if I offended you by assuming folks have a lick of sense and can identify the difference.
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<3 Energy Assault's Power Push.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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But isn't pain just Emp recolored?|
Originally Posted by DogTags
I am really disappointed a Controller cant use Pain. I mean come on... We get the choice between Kin,Rad,Thermal for healer support....Rad so far seems superior over all. Kin seemed nice but like you just pointed out the more I mull over it...i see its a lot of tedious work with the skills in the line up.
Thanks...I am going to delete and reroll this new controller for Electric/Rad ....Would love Electric/Pain so much more but oh well. |
Rich
Rich(@Naq)
--who's NO LONGER waiting for the Elec 'Troller
Bunches of good and evil scattered across all servers--
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It's really too bad you think that. I find Static Field to be one of the best soft controls in the game.|
Originally Posted by MentalMidget
There is nothing awesome about a pulsing sleep......
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Originally Posted by __Naq
But isn't pain just Emp recolored?
Rich |
On a more serious note, a friend and I (both Elec/Rad controllers) decided to do the Stop Metronome mission from Alec Parson (Praetoria). Somehow we flubbed up the spawns, and were baffled as to why we were only seeing two minions every few minutes.
Then we saw the room with 9 Clockwork bosses. We took a deep breath, laid down Radiation Infection on the one closest to the middle, hid behind a wall and dumped Static Field. All 9 bosses ran to us and passed out. We then laid down Enervating Field, locked them in place with Chain Fences, and began laughing with joy as all of their endurance drained to nothing and they all just stood there gawking at us. It took us a good 20 minutes, but we burned them down one by one until we'd killed all 9 bosses.
We were level 14 at the time. ELEC RAD ALL THE WAAAAAAY
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Not at all my friend. Pain would be called Aggressive support to say the least. Unlike Empathy with Pain you directly benefit from using your abilities. Most of the heals Up your dmg and the Rez gives the caster amazing To Hit, Recharge, Dmg and Recovery! also Anguishing Cry Debuffs, Wop Provides all players in your area with up to 17 percent of resistance...Pain and Empathy play very differently. It's very in your face. I have a Fire/Pain and she loves using her heals so she can get buffed with sick dmg as she lobs a fireball at the next mob.
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Originally Posted by __Naq
But isn't pain just Emp recolored?
Rich |
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Yah now that I am lvl 32 since I last asked what to roll with electric.... Empathy does not share more similarities of Pain than suggested by a different poster. It's not horrible but I would have just done Thermal if I knew it was going to be like this. Just not what I hoped it would turn out to be with those Aura's it has later in secondary.|
Originally Posted by Negate
Not at all my friend. Pain would be called Aggressive support to say the least. Unlike Empathy with Pain you directly benefit from using your abilities. Most of the heals Up your dmg and the Rez gives the caster amazing To Hit, Recharge, Dmg and Recovery! also Anguishing Cry Debuffs, Wop Provides all players in your area with up to 17 percent of resistance...Pain and Empathy play very differently. It's very in your face. I have a Fire/Pain and she loves using her heals so she can get buffed with sick dmg as she lobs a fireball at the next mob.
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bah....now to roll a Electric Dom!
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Suggested? I didn't suggest anything I just told you what certain powers do. I WOULD suggest though that you download Mids. It would save you the trouble of leveling up a toon that far only to find out it's not what you expected. I think Pain is fine as it is and it's VERY different from Thermal. If you think it's much like thermal that again I have to say no. Pain does it's own thing and Thermal does it's own...Pain is not a mesh of Empathy and Thermal it may seem like that at first glance but it's not the case. *shrug*
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Originally Posted by DogTags
Yah now that I am lvl 32 since I last asked what to roll with electric.... Empathy does not share more similarities of Pain than suggested. It's not horrible but I would have just done Thermal if I knew it was going to be like this. Just not what I hoped it would turn out to be with those Aura's it has later in secondary.
bah....now to roll a Electric Dom! |
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I have thoroughly confused you it seems. You reinforced that Pain is not at all the same as Empathy. Previously I complained about how I wish I could have pain. Someone said "Go Empathy" its like pain.|
Originally Posted by Negate
Suggested? I didn't suggest anything I just told you what certain powers do. I WOULD suggest though that you download Mids. It would save you the trouble of leveling up a toon that far only to find out it's not what you expected. I think Pain is fine as it is and it's VERY different from Thermal. If you think it's much like thermal that again I have to say no. Pain does it's own thing and Thermal does it's own...Pain is not a mesh of Empathy and Thermal it may seem like that at first glance but it's not the case. *shrug*
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Someone previously suggested that and you have now proved it not the case. My experience with Empathy (already have pain on MM) has also proven your point is valid.
Follow me?
I don't know what Mids does, but I believe I am fine without it. Unless it puts me on some test server with a level 50 to try my powers on a test target, I doubt I would use it. But thanks for the suggestion.
I actually enjoy rolling alts (usually). So I don't mind re-rolling at 20 or less. I certainly am not unhappy with my Elec/emp performance. Just not what I hoped it would be like.
Still a very solid build. I hate to boast but I think there are many instances where my presence ensured the team to steam roll. So its a corner stone for a lot of teams. Just very dull... ....again i say VERY dull. =)
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It might have been me. But I said Pain and Emp are simular but different. which they are. I you want to have something like pain go empathy. I won't be the same but it will be alot simular. Emp isn't worse just different. Though I suggest playing a defender is you want to try out empathy. To be honest Elec under 30 kills slow and can be boring. Nothing can kill you and you don't have trouble with them it is just the fact is that it takes forever to kill something.
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Originally Posted by DogTags
I have thoroughly confused you it seems. You reinforced that Pain is not at all the same as Empathy. Previously I complained about how I wish I could have pain. Someone said "Go Empathy" its like pain.
Someone previously suggested that and you have now proved it not the case. My experience with Empathy (already have pain on MM) has also proven your point is valid. Follow me? I don't know what Mids does, but I believe I am fine without it. Unless it puts me on some test server with a level 50 to try my powers on a test target, I doubt I would use it. But thanks for the suggestion. I actually enjoy rolling alts (usually). So I don't mind re-rolling at 20 or less. I certainly am not unhappy with my Elec/emp performance. Just not what I hoped it would be like. Still a very solid build. I hate to boast but I think there are many instances where my presence ensured the team to steam roll. So its a corner stone for a lot of teams. Just very dull... ....again i say VERY dull. =) |
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Well if it was you its all good man. Still a good build. And yes incredibly dull solo experience. I did my cape mish solo. I only solo that and the aura mish. Nobody cares to go on teams for those as much.|
Originally Posted by OmnipotentMerlin
It might have been me. But I said Pain and Emp are simular but different. which they are. I you want to have something like pain go empathy. I won't be the same but it will be alot simular. Emp isn't worse just different. Though I suggest playing a defender is you want to try out empathy. To be honest Elec under 30 kills slow and can be boring. Nothing can kill you and you don't have trouble with them it is just the fact is that it takes forever to kill something.
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You should have seen how long it took me to kill the Carnies in my mish...my god. My sands of mu saved my time sink I had on killing.
Anyway...back to topic folks. Just wanting to clear things up for Negate and Merlin.
Ah, ok thanks for clearing that up guys cuz' I was like whut? LOL
Many power sets rely on area effect.
Electric Control is just one of them with Static Field, Conductive Aura and the Chains.
Radiation Emission has two anchored AoE debuffs, I assure you, you are slowing down the team by knocking the anchors away or knocking enemies en-mass out of thier effect.
There are numerous ground fields that dramatically affect the ease of defeating enemies: Quicksand, Earthquake, Tar Patch, Ice Slick, Freezing Rain, Sleet, Caltrops, Oil Slick Arrow and I'm probably missing a few.
Everybody loves Fire Blasters, I know I do, but a fire blaster loses a lot of effectiveness when half the enemy pack is knocked away. Fire Blasters are far from the only AoE attackers too.
Knockback is simply put the worst kind of damage mitigation. It extends the life of enemies far more than it extends the life of the player team.
It's not difficult to leverage knockback correctly as either a "Naughty enemy, back into the Killzone you go" or as a knockdown tool by using either Hover or a handy obstacle/wall.
That said Elec/Storm isn't a combo I'd like to try. The PBAOE End Drain aura doesn't mesh well with the strengths of Storm (say unlike Grav or Illusion where you're happy to stay at range and herdicane things into a Freezing Rain killzone).