New set: Whip melee?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-08-22 16:34 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=13
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Originally Posted by Castle
Unlikely. The 3 attacks that we have now for MM's took up far too much time in terms of development and, while we could likely reduce that somewhat now that we know what we are doing, it would also require 3-4 more animations to be made.
So, while I'm not saying "Never" the odds are against it. |
Well there goes all hope for an indiana jones hero.
Awesome.... so all we have to look forward to is more proliferation because anything else would mean work. How boring.
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Lillika: That's... that's actually... Okay. The only way I'm going to counter this thought since I can actually see a large number of players believing it is to do what I didn't want to do, and spell the problem out.|
Originally Posted by Lillika
Awesome.... so all we have to look forward to is more proliferation because anything else would mean work. How boring.
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One of the factoids buried somewhere in the (I think completely gone) Issue 17 closed beta forums was Castle's post on the amount of time it took to actually do the whip set. According to Castle the amount of time it took to just animate one whip attack, one single attack, was equivalent to the amount of time it would take to animate another 2 or 3 other power sets. That is 18 to 27 different separate completely new power animations for new 9 tier power sets with no reused animations.
The developer Synapse later verified that the task of animating whips as used by demon summoners was best described as monumental. Castle again commented on the difference in a thread in the public forums: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=148
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| It's (obviously) not impossible, but it has been EXTREMELY time consuming getting it to work. I believe the Dual Pistols animations took about 1/5th of the time that the Whip attacks have taken...and there were more animations required in that set! |
Now I can't find the direct post, only references to it, so I think it was in a Closed Beta section as well, but the developers have been asked if there was anything more difficult than whips. I want to say David / Noble Savage responded with something to the effect of yes, there is one power-set design off the top of his head that was going to be more difficult and time-consuming than whips: Two-Handed Staffs / Lances
So make it a whip + more set. Copy the 3 whip animations we already have, and port them to a new melee set that has those plus additional powers not using the whip.
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Such as?
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Originally Posted by Adelie
So make it a whip + more set. Copy the 3 whip animations we already have, and port them to a new melee set that has those plus additional powers not using the whip.
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Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I like how you twisted "Work intensive powers means it's unlikely to be made into a full set any time soon" in to "No new sets any time soon."|
Originally Posted by Lillika
Awesome.... so all we have to look forward to is more proliferation because anything else would mean work. How boring.
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Bravo.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Now I can't find the direct post, only references to it, so I think it was in a Closed Beta section as well, but the developers have been asked if there was anything more difficult than whips. I want to say David / Noble Savage responded with something to the effect of yes, there is one power-set design off the top of his head that was going to be more difficult and time-consuming than whips: Two-Handed Staffs / Lances
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler somewhere back in time in a section of the boards that may or may not have been closed at the time
...We did spend a lot of time on the whip between R&D, animating, re-animating, getting the rig sorted out, etc. We ended up spending more time than expected on the actual animations...but that was also because we had the time to spend on it. Demon Summoning as a whole was a very expensive powerset to make, easily taking as much time as 3-4 regular powersets. FYI, staffs/polearms would be about the most time consuming thing that we could make at this point. There are no weapon modes/stances that would be appropriate for it, so it would require a whole battalion of core animations, movement, hit reactions, variations of ninja run, flight, etc etc. More, it would require unique sets of IK driven animations for female and huge models. There's no way we could utilize skeletal re-targeting for them. I'm hard pressed to think of anything that would take more time to do...unless we did staffs as part of a new Mastermind primary along octopus henchmen who ride around on winged horses. |
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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I am SO glad you were able to find that |
Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
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I find it harder to believe that I knew where to get the quote from... it was x-posted on another set of forums a while back by "Burt_Reynolds". |
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The second option is that the game isn't set up for proper impacts on targets, meaning that cool hold you want that wraps the whip around the target can't happen, nor can that choke hold around their neck or the pull that drags the target to you.
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Originally Posted by Adelie
So make it a whip + more set. Copy the 3 whip animations we already have, and port them to a new melee set that has those plus additional powers not using the whip.
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Another important point regarding whips and their use in game is the fact that the whip is a particle effect and NOT a weapon (i.e. it goes away when the power ends). This was done to make the entire process easier (it might have been impossible otherwise, but I am not sure on that, so I will not say that was said). AKA, if a whip set was made, it would not technically be a weapon set, and would still have to be a fire whip or posion whip or energy whip of some sort.
One of my all time favorite comic book charactes is Backlash. I also really liked the Marvel Constrictor both would be great whip concept launch pads.
/E Whipit
/E Whipitgood
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
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How about making them into a Patron Pool or the equivalent for Desdemona? It's from her powerset, and that way you don't need a full set of nine powers.|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
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Originally Posted by Diggis
The second option is that the game isn't set up for proper impacts on targets, meaning that cool hold you want that wraps the whip around the target can't happen, nor can that choke hold around their neck or the pull that drags the target to you.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Interesting. Elevating her to the level of being a patron would not work with current game lore, but that doesn't mean they couldn't create some other whip-granting patron.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
How about making them into a Patron Pool or the equivalent for Desdemona? It's from her powerset, and that way you don't need a full set of nine powers.
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| The Living Hellfire animation has the whip wrap around a demon, so that part at least can be pulled off. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Ever since the kinetic melee set was shown off, I thought it looked kind of goofy. It does have some nice effects, and the animations are well done, but it seemed redundant with other sets like energy melee. Its only real difference was that it was touted as a mid-range set, but this didn't make a lot of sense to me, either.
It started making even less sense when I made a surprising discovery. Demon summoning had always been at the edge of my radar as well, since I've already levelled a mastermind and don't like how they play in groups. While doing a tip mission with Desdemona, however, I witnessed something really cool; Demons MMs will be familiar with the animations because they see them in their power customization screens. A fiery greenish-yellow whip materialized in her hand and she lashed at her target with it. It looked very impressive.
The more I thought about it, the less it made sense that this whip concept wasn't expanded upon for a new melee power set. Many of the assets for such a set already exist ingame. There are the animations from the MM set, of course, and their effects. Such a set has many possibilities for mid-ranged knockdowns, holds, and AOEs. Everyone is familiar with the hold animations that have been ingame since release... they even make the target look like they're bound around the torso with their arms pinned to their sides, as you'd imagine someone had just snared them with a lasso.
A set like this also has lots of options for weapon models. Chains, ropes and whips, in addition to the fire/energy effect already included in the Demon MM set, would be possible.
It almost seems like a job half-done to leave whips as a barely-seen attack that only masterminds get. Doesn't it make more sense to finish the job and give everyone something new and exciting?
Respectfully,
Chthon (Erilaz of Freedom)