For me it's simple. You can have softcapped Defences in all 6 types of damage (not Psi sadly) and you can also have hard capped S/L resist while still keeping decent resist to N/E/F/C. Plus you get a self heal/+Max HP power too. Really, what more could I ask for?
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Quote:
Yes, mostly.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
I'm curious why there is so much invuln love? Is it the current trend to soft cap defense that CMA made so popular?
|
Quote:
| Is it the whole Supes homage vibe? |
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g5...ane/supes1.jpg
Quote:
| Is it the last round of buffs? |
Also, the (perceived?)decline in PvP may have helped Invul's PR. The set is just plain better for PvE.
.
I dunno, as I will tank with anything. I will say that when Invuln was looked at last, and changed it became more fun versus team mates who work against an Invulns strengths whilst Invulns were trying to work to them.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
An IO'd Invulnerability tank can be built close to Stone tank's survivability without the Stone's drawbacks. Who wouldn't want that?
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Quote:
In my opinion mainly this... you can have a tanker with near Granite levels of durability without any of the drawbacks. It also is excellent at holding aggro thanks to a very strong aura in Invincibility.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
An IO'd Invulnerability tank can be built close to Stone tank's survivability without the Stone's drawbacks. Who wouldn't want that?
|
Shield will do more damage and can be quite tough itself, but it's short of Invuln in peak survivability. Stone can best the durability only at the cost of mobility, recharge and damage penalties. Willpower can be built to impressive durability but it's pathetic at holding aggro.
All of these contribute to the popularity of Invuln, however it's ALWAYS been a popular set simply because, well, you think of a really tough character as being INVULNERABLE.
Psychology does come into play here and the idea of playing an Invulnerable tanker did play a part in my choice to roll up CMA in issue 3... I'd played a blaster to around 20 and was very tired of constantly faceplanting so I wanted something that wouldn't die. Well, what could more sum up the idea of "you can't hurt me" than being Invulnerable?
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
For me personally it is because of the last round of buffs for it. Playing one pre-nerf (I5ish and before) was amazing. Playing one after that was brutal since they took it too far. Now I am back on board since they fixed alot of the issues I had with the set. Plus I can't stand using WP on any type of char and I don't want to carry a silly shield or stack poo on my shoulders.
Because there really isn't another set without themed graphics (stone, ice, etc) that feels solid.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
I like it now that I can turn off the glowing spinning fx.
Quote:
Got it in one. And if you pair Invulnerability with Dark Melee, you don't even need to spend as much on IOs.
|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
An IO'd Invulnerability tank can be built close to Stone tank's survivability without the Stone's drawbacks. Who wouldn't want that?
|
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Cause its easy to use...that's why
Quote:
Willpower.|
Originally Posted by Starflier
Because there really isn't another set without themed graphics (stone, ice, etc) that feels solid.
|
70% Smashing/Lethal Resist
Can be softcapped to defence
90hp/sec regen
Can cap HP
Quote:
Pathetic taunt.|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Willpower.
70% Smashing/Lethal Resist Can be softcapped to defence 90hp/sec regen Can cap HP |
Sorry, but it's true.
In my mind, Invuln is popular because:
1) It is tough enough. A Stone beats it by a mile, but the cost, the cost.... A good /dark or /ice is tougher than an invuln too, if you have the reflexes for it.
2) INVULNERABLE. 'nuff said.
Perceptions count.3) You can have a great character concept, a great costume, and still see it. For me, this is a huge deal.
4) Invuln is simple. /ice or /dark can both be tougher than /inv, but criminy, they're a lot of frikkin' work to keep alive.
5) Invuln tanks well. It's nicely sticky, you have full mobility, and you're not constantly punching heals/end/ports/scares/timeouts to stay alive and move around and do your job. You can concentrate on situational awareness. And that's a big deal.
Tanking well is not simple. Invuln lets the player concentrate on tanking, rather than surviving.
In my opinion, the 'big three' tanker sets are likely to become /inv, /wp, and /elec.
Electric armor on a tank has a LOT to recommend it. With the new mobs recently added (Super Stunners my butt, they're boss-level sappers THAT RES) end drain resistance is getting to be more and more critical.
Ehn, but what do I know?
You have a secondary to deal with the taunt issue (ie: taking taunt and attacking people), but yes, the taunt from Willpower is negligable. But to call it rubbish is 'lol'.
I'd say for sheer survivability Willpower is a (small) step above Invulnerability.
heh, i hate invuln until its slotted. I found for some fight's i'd have to rely on outside buffage or unstoppable to deal with anything thats not smashing/lethal >.<
however, reactive armor, Kinetic Combat, maybe the steadfast +3 in there.. it becomes something closer to its name sake, Invulnerable
I guess you could say its one of those sets that just relishes the bonuses you can build with sets 
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
Well, besides the durable and mobile and fire & forget aspects, I like Invulnerability because it's SHINY!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Invuln's probably my favorite. Good defense, good resist (amazing resist to the most common damage in the game), a really nice heal/hp buff, and a long lasting godmode Tier 9. What's not to like?
You don't even need sets to make it very solid. You can do quite a bit just with SOs. For example... Click this DataLink to open the build!
With Common IOs and just a couple cheap set IOs, you get something like this... Click this DataLink to open the build!
Good stuff!
Quote:
Hell, mine feels like I'm cheating just on SO's.
|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Got it in one. And if you pair Invulnerability with Dark Melee, you don't even need to spend as much on IOs.
|
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Interesting responses so far.
I totally overlooked the potential appeal of low impact graphics, since I play my tanks zoomed out and panned up for a better view of the spawn dynamics. I can see how that might be a factor for some.
I can sort of see how some might be hooked on the performance of the set in its current form once IOs are factored in As mentioned I have a fully IOed invuln/dm so I do have some idea what he is capable of :P.
I'm a bit surprised that the names of the powers are such a big consideration. I tend to ignore those rationalizing the powers in terms that suit my own alt's backstory.
I suppose the ability to essentially ignore s/l damage is something of a big deal. But, does your love affair with the set remain when running the huge amount of exotic damage foes in the later hero game? I tend to run a lot of Shard, RWZ, old Maria/Tina etc. S/L does little under those conditions.
Would you be tempted to switch sets if another option came up without concept constraints and WP's anemic taunt aura?
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Quote:
It could be until now that a lot of the new content catered to Invul's strengths, or was at least neutral to it. The ITF is an Invul's playground. The Khan TF, less so (but that TF gets fewer runs).|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
But, does your love affair with the set remain when running the huge amount of exotic damage foes in the later hero game? I tend to run a lot of Shard, RWZ, old Maria/Tina etc. S/L does little under those conditions.
|
As for those environments you point out:
RWZ: Cheif Soldier swords do massive damage to those weaker against S/L. The Psionic threats, while annoying, can be identified and dealt with. There's relatively few of those per spawn. My quality Inul almost thrives on ship raids.
Shard: The Shard is, as always, hit or miss. There's nothing I'd rather jump into a crowd of Honored Brutes with than an Invuln, but Wisps are always going to be an issue.
Tina/Maria: Actually, the old arcs were kinder to an Invul. The new ones less so. From what I gather, it's for a number of reasons:
-While there's about as many enemies using exotic damage as before, it's much more potent now. Stand in the black puddles of death from the new Anti-Matter Clockwork for an example.
-The new mobs (Clockwork, Warworks, etc) abuse AoE like crazy. The aforementioned death puddles mean you can't even depend on grouping for +def, because as soon as you get them around you, you're standing in massive DoT from something or another's attacks. This not only makes your survival harder, it makes keeping teammates from being damaged more difficult.
-Those mentioned mobs above often come with Seers, and unlike the Rikti, there are copious numbers of them. The Seers also like to scatter, run far and return in a bit to psi snipe from range. Strangely, Taunt and the -Range didn't take care of this problem for me.
-Some enemies appear to be bugged and spawning incorrectly for the difficulty settings. Running at 45 with +0 1X I was seeing purple LTs and Bosses some spawns. That obviously can't be WAI.
Of course, I noticed that in addition to all of that, the enemies often stacked -regen, so these arcs may be a nighmare for WP as well.
.
Quote:
Maybe for an SO build WP but any Tank is going to have its own set of problems. WP when IO'd out really needs multiple failures to build up - ie a quick stacking defence debuff and then that stacked with endurance drain for instance.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Of course, I noticed that in addition to all of that, the enemies often stacked -regen, so these arcs may be a nighmare for WP as well..
|
Right now I'm giving Electric Armour a try and my build @ 50, although insanely expensive, looks just INCREDIBLE. The new purple hero merits seem to be a great way of pretty much building anything you want so it seems plausible I can afford it.
It has (with a few % margin of error) capped lethal, smashing, cold and energy resistance. 80% resistance to fire, 50% resistance to psychic and negative energy. On top of that it has about 20-25% defence to all defence positions and damage types, a 45 second recharge heal worth ~45% of the total health, and debuff resistances to pretty much everything. Oh, and unlimitted stamina. If I can manage that build... mmm tasty
Step aside Invulnerability (for now
Quote:
Haven't had problems with Furious Flea (Inv/SS Tank) under any circumstances (raids, TFs, whatever). He's a regular RWZ raider and absolutely invincible on the Mothership. Doesn't even have problems with Psi, thanks to slotting. That "huge amount of exotic damage" isn't all that huge, after all. Flea isn't even naturally softcapped.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
I suppose the ability to essentially ignore s/l damage is something of a big deal. But, does your love affair with the set remain when running the huge amount of exotic damage foes in the later hero game? I tend to run a lot of Shard, RWZ, old Maria/Tina etc. S/L does little under those conditions.
|
Quote:
| Would you be tempted to switch sets if another option came up without concept constraints and WP's anemic taunt aura? |
Invuln's resistance to S/L is a huge factor. Even though you're looking at ~30% to everything else, that S/L resistance will help see you through almost any fight. The defense bonus of Invincibility scales to be at its best when potential damage is at its worst. When enemy numbers fall off and Invincibility becomes less effective, the threat to the Tanker is also reduced to the point where ~30% resist to exotic damage is sufficient. Throw in Dull Pain and Unstoppable and you have what should be a nearly unkillable character. Invuln's biggest weakness isn't really the exotic damage, it's the endurance cost and lack of an endurance builder.
I like Willpower for pure survival, especially with large quantities of lower-difficulty (+2 or less) enemies. The weak taunt aura helps survival quite a bit, since it can stand in a pack of enemies, get all the benefit of RttC, and essentially limit threat to punchvoking and taunt. It's a great set for standing next to an Invuln Tanker
. It doesn't have a click heal, but you can stack a lot of +hp naturally and take advantage of that great regen. I like Unstoppable over Strength of Will, if only because it delivers on the promise of godmode. Outside of SoW, it doesn't have anything that interferes with attack chains, so it is nice for DPS builds. QR also helps characters maintain long-term power use, something that Invuln can have trouble with.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
You have a secondary to deal with the taunt issue (ie: taking taunt and attacking people), but yes, the taunt from Willpower is negligable. But to call it rubbish is 'lol'.
I'd say for sheer survivability Willpower is a (small) step above Invulnerability. |
yeah... WP is more survivable then invun... when you can regen 200 hps/sec yeah... of course it's more survivable then invun (frankly, in my experience, WP is more survivable then Stone in most situations too)...
The trick is WP's agro control sucks horribly bad... which for a lot of people nerfs their enthusiasm big time.
I love my WP tanker, but it's really frustrating to hold agro with her, no matter how badass she is. Invun gives you a slightly less survivable stone tanker with about the same agro management and none of the negs that stone comes with.
Of course it will be popular.
Four passive powers is nice, since I'm not a fan of micro-managing my defenses. Three toggles isn't bad, especially since Invincibility isn't really needed when soloing (unless you've upped the difficulty), so it's not a big drain on Endurance. And when things go bad, you have Dull Pain. When things go really bad, you have Unstoppable.
Even without IOs, you're very tough to defeat.
Quote:
The oft-quoted estimate is that smashing and lethal damage make up roughly 70% of incoming damage. What may not be obvious is that Invulnerability trivializes that damage (coupled with Tough, for 90% resistance to S/L). Taking only 10% of most incoming damage is huge indeed.
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
Invuln's resistance to S/L is a huge factor. Even though you're looking at ~30% to everything else, that S/L resistance will help see you through almost any fight.
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I've been keeping an eye on what type of tanks I see ingame, and seeing as I run two full all tanker SGs I see a lot. Lately I've spent a fair amount of time on the forums again, practically all in the tanker boards.
I'm curious why there is so much invuln love? Is it the current trend to soft cap defense that CMA made so popular? Is it the whole Supes homage vibe? Is it the last round of buffs?
Color me a little puzzled. I've played all the tanker sets to 50 with and without IOs (and yes my invuln/dm went full on softcapped with 0 foes) invuln was good, but not OMGWTFBBQSauce!
Most of you fine folks seem to prefer the set over most if not all others. Why do YOU like it?
joe
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders