Quote:
Take that and apply it to stalkers.|
Originally Posted by CityofChange
^^^
Take this statement and apply it to limiting healers in the 1st place. ESPECIALLY with the adjusted scoring system. Issue fixed. |
3 stalkers were ran ONCE. And apparently everyone think it's the most horrifyingly broken lineup ever.
Quote:
I think that if we keep limiting stuff a few of the lowering ranking teams will drop over the course of this league and is that really what we want?! i mean come on, i can TOTALLY understand the maps being banned, but is the limiting of the healers necessary? honestly? |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
People will stop showing up, two or three teams will be left fighting for the first place rank. Also, a few teams are already getting these lopsided scores, resulting in rumours of one of the teams dropping from the ladder. If people get wiped they'll either need new builds, new strats or they'll drop from the league.
Or people will vote to limit more stuff. I won't be forwarding any votes myself, unless my teammates think it's important enough. Just as a imho, it seems better from a meta standpoint to lie in the weeds, get your points from wins where you can and make a push in the final weeks. If you don't draw attention to yourself then other teams can't pull the "banstick" on you, so you can use alternate strats later in the season when nothing can be done about them. Showing your cards now, when a precedent has been set of archetype limitations, seems unwise. The other team gets points too. If by giving them 6 points instead of 12 you keep them out of top seed (assuming you don't think you can beat them), that's a viable, if weak, reasoning. |
having 2 healers on ur team in a 3v3/4v4/5v5 wont make u auto win. Even having a 1 emp/2 thermal combo wont make u win as we saw in 2 different team matches this week.
I dont understand why ppl would want 2 make this basically a standard jump team vs a standard jump team. Isnt more fun if u mix up the combos that u bring? isnt more fun if u just have fun instead of playing the boring same old stuff every match basically?
Artic and the Chillz - Champion PvP League
Exile - Champion PvPEC 3v3-5v5 League
Exile - Freedom 5v5 PvP League 2012
Exile - Freedumb PvP League 2011
Exile - CAPE PvP League
Quote:
Amen
|
Originally Posted by CityofChange
^^^
Take this statement and apply it to limiting healers in the 1st place. ESPECIALLY with the adjusted scoring system. Issue fixed. |
Artic and the Chillz - Champion PvP League
Exile - Champion PvPEC 3v3-5v5 League
Exile - Freedom 5v5 PvP League 2012
Exile - Freedumb PvP League 2011
Exile - CAPE PvP League
Quote:
The hockey analogy is somewhat skewed. The NHL determines what the teams can run. That equals Kat telling teams you HAVE to (as in no choice) field 3 tanks, 1 blaster, 1 emp, etc with NO deviations. That's not what we are doing here.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Just to take hockey since I'm most familiar with it...you can only play 3 forwards, 2 defense, 1 goalie at a time on the ice. Now, how those players behave/act comes down to individual creativity of course, but I don't think anyone finds set line-ups odd. Amusingly, people seem to find set line-ups and ATs in a MMO environment a worrying sign; chalk this off to having so many archetypes and powersets and so on I guess.
|
I'll try to give a sports analogy since its fitting and you used one already: Basketball
1 team has four 7 footers and the "option" to play all four in games making it very difficult for another team to beat them. (( ZOMG! The Celtics have Garnett, Perkins, Shaq and Jermaine Oneal! We have to limit them to only 2 on the court at a time! )) Limiting the 7 footers to 2 per lineup equates in the same thing as what limiting healers is doing. Can the four 7 footers lose? Hell ya, with some speed and evasion. Can a 3 healer lineup lose? Most definitely, with some planning and execution. By limiting, you're hampering. The side effect is that the league becomes elitist, because if team A has 2 players that ONLY play therms/emps, then they both won't be played. (And that will happen if a 3v3 is forced) Basically you're telling them to 1) go get another toon so that you "might" play IF we aren't forced into a 3v3 or 2) you can't play...so sorry.
But I guess it makes more sense to just start limiting ATs as they are played. GGs
- Convenient - //\ - Exile - //\ - AatC -
hearing from alot of captain? most say no on the limit of healers.. so how did this pass? Plus we beat a two emp combo? it comes down to skillz on your emp.
Quote:
Kinda what I was thinking.
|
Originally Posted by ELF_STALKER
hearing from alot of captain? most say no on the limit of healers.. so how did this pass?
|
I was trying to figure the votes out myself. From the posts here, I would assume Artic, Kara, and your team (Bud is captain, right?) all voted to not limit healers, meaning the proposal wouldn't have passed (since I obviously voted to not limit). There are a couple of other captains here that I would've certainly thought would've voted that way as well, so I'm scratching my head here.
Quote:
kat's rigging the league ahhhhhhhh!!!!!111!!!111!!!!1!|
Originally Posted by psoma
i was trying to figure the votes out myself. From the posts here, i would assume artic, kara, and your team (bud is captain, right?) all voted to not limit healers, meaning the proposal wouldn't have passed (since i obviously voted to not limit). There are a couple of other captains here that i would've certainly thought would've voted that way as well, so i'm scratching my head here.
|
But in all seriousness, obviously one of those teams didn't do what they claim they did.
On vent with captains bud,hell,artic, and other peeps on the forums saying no
? Should be a vent meeting or vote on vent.
All of those people did not vote to not limit healers. Apparently if they are telling you they did then maybe they don't want you to know or maybe they are feeling bullied and pressured by the people that do not agree.
3 Captains voted to not limit healers. 5 Captains voted to limit them. The only way that rule is getting changed is if one of those 5 Captains changes their mind.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Psoma
I was trying to figure the votes out myself. From the posts here, I would assume Artic, Kara, and your team (Bud is captain, right?) all voted to not limit healers, meaning the proposal wouldn't have passed (since I obviously voted to not limit). There are a couple of other captains here that I would've certainly thought would've voted that way as well, so I'm scratching my head here.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ELF_STALKER
On vent with captains bud,hell,artic, and other peeps on the forums saying no
? Should be a vent meeting or vote on vent. |
I voted to limit them, my team agreed to do so.
I've never claimed otherwise, though I'm not crazy about it since it severely limits what even my own team can bring.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
i think they miss understood the question.. thinking that they agree no two healers on a
3 vs 3.. Healers assuming emps or pain doms. Again why vote yes and your the only team that brough 2 emps on a 3 vs 3 match the first week and still lose. Upset calling it not fair when a Blaster,emp, therm combo. A therm that doesnt have any buff shields and hardly heals. More like a blaster and debuffing. I just it think that the wording of the question was the issue needed more detail before people voted. Being that said there going be more tankers in the 3 vs 3 mixs thanks for those who voted yes. 1 tank, Emp, Blaster combo or the 2 tankers and emp combo ftw.
I voted against the limitation. By the looks of it, the results of the voting should have been different, assuming everyone saying they voted against it really did. Is it possible that someone accidentally voted the opposite?
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ELF_STALKER
i think they miss understood the question.. thinking that they agree no two healers on a
3 vs 3.. Healers assuming emps or pain doms. Again why vote yes and your the only team that brough 2 emps on a 3 vs 3 match the first week and still lose. Upset calling it not fair when a Blaster,emp, therm combo. A therm that doesnt have any buff shields and hardly heals. More like a blaster and debuffing. I just it think that the wording of the question was the issue needed more detail before people voted. Being that said there going be more tankers in the 3 vs 3 mixs thanks for those who voted yes. 1 tank, Emp, Blaster combo or the 2 tankers and emp combo ftw. |
Here's what happened.
AFTER we played our three matches against you, not before, teammate goes:
"Kara, teams fielding three emps/therms/pains is crazy, it'll just end up in draws all the time. People will not be able to score kills."
Me: "Are you sure? We won't be able to play me and Philly together then, since she runs a Therm. Or Peril's Emp and my Emp wouldn't be able to team together."
Other person: "Draws are bad. Please vote this in."
Thus my vote. To be fair, I didn't really think too far past that. I certainly don't want anyone to not play, heck I've always encouraged others to PvP
.I just want to avoid situations where teams play for draws by loading in 3-5 Emps/Pain Doms/Therms.
Sigh.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
So we're just going to start adding random rules every time a majority votes for it?
How about a new vote. Every time a new rule comes into effect that makes the entire ladder's previous matches a complete waste of time we just start over at week one again.
Otherwise, use the feedback to add rules for whatever ladder is started up NEXT. Don't change the rules in the middle of the damn game.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
Quote:
I never thought I would say this but elkie is a ******* genious.|
Originally Posted by ELF_STALKER
i think they miss understood the question..
|
Based on a Captains post not matching up with what they voted I just had a talk with them and they didn't understand what they were voting for. So we are back to no healer limitations again. GLHF
Quote:
Woot!|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
I never thought I would say this but elkie is a ******* genious.
Based on a Captains post not matching up with what they voted I just had a talk with them and they didn't understand what they were voting for. So we are back to no healer limitations again. GLHF |
Hope this makes everyone happy and looking forward to the fights.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Sorry for the confusion. I thought there were 2 different votes that were issued. One to limit healers to 1 per team for 3v3's (which I voted against) and the other to limit it to 2 healers for 4v4's and 5v5's, which I was for.
On that note, GLHF!
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
If you're really going to go with this then you need to re-evaulate what you consider a "healer"
If Therms are going to be put in the same healer class as Emps and Pains then you need to put EVERYTHING that has a Single Target heal in that healer class as well. Up to, and including Stormies with O2 Boost, MMs with Poison for Alkaloid. Otherwise you're still not even been fair.
Take therms off the list.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
Quote:
Therms have a self AoE Heal, as do emps and pains. Therms have a single target heal, as do Emps and pains.|
Originally Posted by _Force_
If you're really going to go with this then you need to re-evaulate what you consider a "healer"
If Therms are going to be put in the same healer class as Emps and Pains then you need to put EVERYTHING that has a Single Target heal in that healer class as well. Up to, and including Stormies with O2 Boost, MMs with Poison for Alkaloid. Otherwise you're still not even been fair. Take therms off the list. |
Just saying...Therms are more likely to be used for their debuffs though and buffs, making them an attractive hybrid AT.
I'm sure if this kind of discussion arises again (hopefully not!) it will be nuanced.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
yes take the therm off the healing list at least mine.. cause I dont have buffs or focus for support.
Allowing Captain votes and request for rule changes is common in all high end leagues and ladders. In fact I have never been in one that didn't allow it. The thing is that people need to really think out things before they ask for votes to be taken and before they vote.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by _Force_
So we're just going to start adding random rules every time a majority votes for it?
How about a new vote. Every time a new rule comes into effect that makes the entire ladder's previous matches a complete waste of time we just start over at week one again. Otherwise, use the feedback to add rules for whatever ladder is started up NEXT. Don't change the rules in the middle of the damn game. |
In light of the healer limitation "reversal", I'm done with the Champion league.
Scribe, Droe, and Simon ya'll can have at it.
Hell, Gfunny, Artic, Elf and I have all been discussing this today and would like to ask that all future votes be done in the league vent? This would probably help solve some of these "misunderstandings"
DEAR CHAMPION, DEAR CHAMPION, II Protectors of Neverland
"8 years Guys....What a Ride"
224 LvL 50's
Take this statement and apply it to limiting healers in the 1st place. ESPECIALLY with the adjusted scoring system.
Issue fixed.
- Convenient - //\ - Exile - //\ - AatC -