Quote:
You can have 2 or even 3 out at once. I used this to test sleeping +3 AVs and it worked quite handily.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
I honestly couldn't tell you whether you can have more than 1 static field up at once or not, my gut feeling is that you wont be able to, but who knows.
|
I wanted to have a run at the Freedom Phalanx in the RSF but couldn't generate enough interest. I'm pretty sure it will be close to Mind Control at this particular function, and even better in the ITF because you can do it out of line of sight so no worries about healing Nictus.
Quote:
I had the same experience. Conductive Aura vs. large numbers of targets is just rubbish. I definitely made some posts about it, but I'm not sure if Castle had time to check out that stuff towards the end.
|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Baring in mind that Conductive Aura is 8 targets max, is it still viable to sap a whole x8 spawn? What tricks were people using because I found it quite difficult, although I am not very experienced in the world of sapping. Spamming Caged Fences and slotting it for End Mod was what I went for.
|
The set has a little bit of everything...yet control wise it meets in the middle of the road. It's a VERY active Control set and it plays very different than most sets. you have to be very active if you want to play safe. None of that hit the AOE Hold and just gravy train it all the way.
My playstyle goes as follows...and so far when I play this way I actually survive lol.
1. Use the confuse.
2. If you're able to move around a corner do so and then use the sleep path on 'em. If not use the KD power then the sleep patch quickly after.
3. Use the KD power and confuse power whenever it comes up...the same thing goes for the sleep. The Immob def helps keep the mob in one spot...this may not seem necessary but it is a god send for certain mobs(werewolves).
4. You should be in the middle of the mob by now with the aura running. Again keep hitting those key powers and throw a hold out to keep the bosses and troublesome ones in check.
Sorry that was so crude lol.
It's a very busy set much like mind. I find out the best sets to mix with Elec/ on a dom is anything that has a bit of aoe or pbaoe so...Thorns, Earth, Ice, Psi. Fire is ok and is very nice if you pick up Rain of Fire.
To be perfectly honest with you guys if you use the regular combo and you mix it with SLEET your control issues go out the window.
EDIT: Also to pick up where Ketch left off about the Gremlins...damage wise they are ok and sometimes they save your bacon with all the KD they dish out but man aggro wise...they are NUTS! They make the imps look like saints!
They will aggro any close by mobs and follow the mob almost halfway to the end of the map lmao. On teams you should make sure you keep an eye out on them.
Quote:
This pretty much sums up where I'm at, though I think I might sit more on the positive side of the fence.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
I think one of the major problems for the set is that no dev has really spoken out at what the overall philosophy of the set is. Obviously by analysing the powers you can tell it is going to play differently to its sister sets, but will it still be as effective? It lacks the long recharge AoE controls that other sets possess and instead has a lot more quick recharging powers that do soft control. Though the chaining powers are not as reliable as normal AoE's and if you miss the initial hit then the whole power just fizzles, plus it can take a while for the power to fully chain, especially Synaptic Overload.
I think with more extensive playtime and testing, we will start to see new stratergies and tricks emerge from the playerbase, especially as the set is pretty unique. What we can say with certainty though is the set is low damage. It will sit near to Ice and Earth and might be pretty rough solo at the early levels, especially with the long activation time of Tesla Cage. Personally I have found the set to be pretty difficult to get to grips with and with not much to really show from it. I will admit though, this may be as much to do with my ability to adjust to a new play style as it is to do with the sets performance as a whole. So at the moment I think we have a pretty open verdict on the sets capabilities. The optimist in me says that there is a lot of unrealised potential just waiting for a creative player to tap into. The pessimist in me says people will try play it like a conventional control set and not be pleased with the results, especially early on. I guess only time will tell. |
My testing was with a Dominator, so YMMV on the Controller side of life. My impression was that it was a set that I had fun with and it could be very effective. I didn't team much, but I didn't find the sleep to be useless on teams. It ticks over fast enough that it has close to the same effect as terrorize (not quite, but close). I also found the sapping to be more than adequate - though it isn't the one button insta-drain of pre-ED SC, it doesn't take long for the mobs to be empty. Even with DOs Conductive Aura makes for a good enough Stamina replacement (again taking into account that Domination helps here too - so this might be a place where Controllers differ).
However, I completely agree that it is likely to suffer from player expectation - this is not your garden variety control set and if you play it like one, you will be disappointed (note, I'm not saying I yet know how to play it optimally, just that I know it is easy to play sub-optimally).
Overall I do think that the set has room for some upward adjustment and I wouldn't be surprised to see that at some point post launch. I'm not sure what that buff should be, but I know some things I would *not* like to see:
- More damage - this is a damage light set and that's OK - not everything is Fire Control.
- Doing away with the chain powers - I like that the set has unique mechanics, especially when it means you have to think a bit.
- In general anything that moves it close to be "just another standard control set with a different coat of paint". I think the idea here is layered control and I like it (not everyone will, but that's OK).
An increase to the target cap for Conductive Aura would be nice as would some minor -REC (though I didn't find that as much of an issue as others). Perhaps some low mag, <100% chance stuns added to a couple of powers - fits both with the Electric theme and the seeming desire to make this a "layered" control set (one power doesn't do the trick you have to apply multiple of them in the right ways).
Quote:
Well that does open up huge protential. With high recharge and global recharge, EC could throw them left right and centre at a fast pace. |
Originally Posted by Liliaceae
You can have 2 or even 3 out at once. I used this to test sleeping +3 AVs and it worked quite handily.
I wanted to have a run at the Freedom Phalanx in the RSF but couldn't generate enough interest. I'm pretty sure it will be close to Mind Control at this particular function, and even better in the ITF because you can do it out of line of sight so no worries about healing Nictus. |
Also given the fast pulse rate, I wonder what benefits it could get out of procs.
Quote:
Fortunata Hypnosis Chance for Placate isn't currently working in it. I didn't try any others.
|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Well that does open up huge protential. With high recharge and global recharge, EC could throw them left right and centre at a fast pace.
Also given the fast pulse rate, I wonder what benefits it could get out of procs. |
Quote:
That proc makes the caster of the skill use placate on the target, right? Ground target powers like that are pseudo pets, they count as the caster. And well, they're already untargetable. So placate is pointless.
|
Originally Posted by Liliaceae
Fortunata Hypnosis Chance for Placate isn't currently working in it. I didn't try any others.
|
Culex's resistance guide
I didn't see a hit message for the proc in the combat log, so I'm guessing it wasn't passed through.
Quote:
That opens up all kinds of strategies then, especially with the power's location based nature. Stuff like throwing it up in advance to prepare for ambushes or out-of-line-of-sight stunts. Static Field spam sounds like an interesting trick on a high recharge build like permadoms or an Electric/Kinetics. |
Originally Posted by Liliaceae
You can have 2 or even 3 out at once. I used this to test sleeping +3 AVs and it worked quite handily.
I wanted to have a run at the Freedom Phalanx in the RSF but couldn't generate enough interest. I'm pretty sure it will be close to Mind Control at this particular function, and even better in the ITF because you can do it out of line of sight so no worries about healing Nictus. |
Yes, I keep reading posts saying that Elec/Kin won't be the best combo, but this is a concept build. And primarily a team character anyway, so the lack of damage's alleviated by buffing other teammates' damage to insane levels. Plus for extra fun, Conductive Aura should help me get away with skipping the Fitness Pool even in the pre-35 levels. I'll be dealing with team sized spawns anyway.
This is looking like fun. Knockdown spamming, sleep field spamming, draining, confusing, kinetics stuff. Gods, that'll be crazy busy (though I'm used to crazy busy from playing a Mind/Emp). Plus I can get Power Sink from the Mu Mastery pool. I took a look at the Primal Forces pool because of Power Boost, but it has a cone attack (bad combo with Kin) and Power boost comes late. Plus Mu Mastery is electricity themed and not only helps with drain but also has a decent AoE and Power Sink. Sadly I can't really think of any IC justification for the Mu Guardian, but it sounds like a decent idea for added endurance drain.
Hmm, actually she could be summoning a Mu Guardian from her world. For context, her world was overtaken by a mass brainwashing attack that turned everyone peaceful and kind (yes, that's supposed to be at least a little creepy), so there're possibilities for heroic alternate versions of villain groups that sprung up before that change. Yeah, that actually might be cool, and more endurance drain is nice.
All the stuff about gremlins being massive aggro maniacs, though... I might have to create a kill-switch bind (/releasepets) to for when they look about to do something urgently stupid. And running Tactics sounds like a bad idea with the increased perception range that'd be granted to the gremlins.
Quote:
It depends. If the sleep is basically a pulsing aura based on an invisible Pseudopet then it will only try and proc every 10 seconds (think of something like Choking Cloud but with a sleep and emitting from the invisible pet in the middle of the patch). But if the invisible Pseudopet is actually firing off a PBAOE Sleep every 4 then it'll proc every 4.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Well that does open up huge protential. With high recharge and global recharge, EC could throw them left right and centre at a fast pace.
Also given the fast pulse rate, I wonder what benefits it could get out of procs. |
So it depends on how it works mechanically. I'm guessing its a "every 10 seconds because it's technically a pulsing aura" though. Of course with two or three of them out the PROCs will still mount up.
Quote:
The Placate proc isn't currently working at all from what I've seen. I've tested against some robot mobs where it doesn't seem to do a thing. I haven't seen it confirmed by anyone else yet though.
|
Originally Posted by Liliaceae
Fortunata Hypnosis Chance for Placate isn't currently working in it. I didn't try any others.
|
Quote:
3) Chain Fences - Area effect immobilize, Minor damage.
- 9.18 Energy damage.
- 0.90 Accuracy.
- 8s Recharge time.
- 15.60 Endurance cost.
- 1.17 Activation time.
- 80 ft. range. 30 ft Radius. 16 Targets max.
- Mag 3 Immobilize. 27.94 Duration.
- Anti-Fly for 15s.
- -10% Endurance.
- 40% Chance for -100% recovery for 6s.
I have one question regarding the AOE immob: Here is stated that it does 9,18 damage but not over a period of time, so am I right to assume it is instadamage? If yes, then the power is rly good as far as I see. Can´t remember another AOE imoob that gives all damage frontloaded, something that should be really good with higher levels and high recharge (with recharge rates at 2,7 secs for example). maybe it´s done so, so it can´t interfere the pulsing sleep, but who knows
Can someone prove this?
Quote:
Even if the proc fired, isn't the expect behavior that the Static Field pseudo pet would placate the mob vice the summoner placating the mob? or is it expected that it will function similar to the proc when slotted in Poison Gas Arrow (which I believe also summons some type of pseudo pet) or other AoE sleeps?
|
Originally Posted by ketch
The Placate proc isn't currently working at all from what I've seen. I've tested against some robot mobs where it doesn't seem to do a thing. I haven't seen it confirmed by anyone else yet though.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
Even if the proc fired, isn't the expect behavior that the Static Field pseudo pet would placate the mob vice the summoner placating the mob? or is it expected that it will function similar to the proc when slotted in Poison Gas Arrow (which I believe also summons some type of pseudo pet) or other AoE sleeps?
|
PGA doesn't summon a Pseudo, weirdly. Or rather it does but that's not where the Sleep comes from, it's actually a direct-target effect.
As far as I remember PGA used to work quite similiarly to Static Field but got changed in Trick Arrows beta for some reason.
Quote:
You are right. The debuff is is what I am thinking is summoned by a pet. I assumed the sleep was too. Thanks for clearing that up.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
PGA doesn't summon a Pseudo, weirdly. Or rather it does but that's not where the Sleep comes from, it's actually a direct-target effect.
As far as I remember PGA used to work quite similiarly to Static Field but got changed in Trick Arrows beta for some reason. |
Quote:
Yep it is straight damage and no DoT, it also doesn't provide any knockback protection (unlike its ST version). Sometimes it is what is not said that is important.. (sorry recently watched the "Exam", awesome film)|
Originally Posted by Nuclear Girl
Quote:
3) Chain Fences - Area effect immobilize, Minor damage.
I have one question regarding the AOE immob: Here is stated that it does 9,18 damage but not over a period of time, so am I right to assume it is instadamage? If yes, then the power is rly good as far as I see. Can´t remember another AOE imoob that gives all damage frontloaded, something that should be really good with higher levels and high recharge (with recharge rates at 2,7 secs for example). maybe it´s done so, so it can´t interfere the pulsing sleep, but who knows Can someone prove this? |
But yeah I went to some length to make sure all the data and terminology was correct because I'm pretty anal about that kind of thing, lol :-)
Quote:
Nothing in PGA is summoned up by a pseudo-pet. It's a straight up AoE -DMG, Sleep power.|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
You are right. The debuff is is what I am thinking is summoned by a pet. I assumed the sleep was too. Thanks for clearing that up.
|
It does have some code remnant in it that says it summons up a pet, but the pet does nothing. This is probably leftovers from when, in beta, it acted as a location AoE.
Originally, Glue Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Disruption Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow were all location AoEs. Having so many was deemed a bit of a hassle to work with so Glue and Poison lost the location ability.
EDIT: Actually, I think the pseudo-pet in PGA does summon something after all: The lingering gas cloud graphics. I can't remember if they finally removed that or not since it doesn't linger. :S
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Reminds me of the not-quite-so-lingering Lingering Radiation. When I first used it I was a bit confused until I realised that it was basically just a targeted AoE. It does make sense, but you get the impression that if something runs into the watch after you used it, they should be effected as well.
I will be making toons immediately with Electric Control. One Controller and Two Dominators..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
lol...makes sense....its a full time job keeping up with undocumented changes..
|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Nothing in PGA is summoned up by a pseudo-pet. It's a straight up AoE -DMG, Sleep power.
It does have some code remnant in it that says it summons up a pet, but the pet does nothing. This is probably leftovers from when, in beta, it acted as a location AoE. Originally, Glue Arrow, Poison Gas Arrow, Disruption Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow were all location AoEs. Having so many was deemed a bit of a hassle to work with so Glue and Poison lost the location ability. EDIT: Actually, I think the pseudo-pet in PGA does summon something after all: The lingering gas cloud graphics. I can't remember if they finally removed that or not since it doesn't linger. :S |
One good proc for the set might be Tempest: Chance for End Drain.
Gives a 25% chance for -13% Endurance. Could be slotted in powers which take ranged damage. So that would work in Electric Fence, Tesla Cage and maybe Jolting Chain?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TheWeaver
An increase to the target cap for Conductive Aura would be nice as would some minor -REC (though I didn't find that as much of an issue as others). Perhaps some low mag, <100% chance stuns added to a couple of powers - fits both with the Electric theme and the seeming desire to make this a "layered" control set (one power doesn't do the trick you have to apply multiple of them in the right ways).
|
Amen
I believe all the other PBAoE Auras are capped at 16 targets. This was brought up in Beta but never addressed.
A bit off topic, but related to controllers, you bring up some interesting points worthy of discussion in its own thread. I'll highlight some key points here. This isnt a pop shot at you more of a squabble with poor game design coming from a six year CoX veteran.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TheWeaver
|
In my book thats a big NO! The whole notion that some sets should just be better offensively is a big crock. Last time I checked the primary way to get rewards in this game is by defeating enemies. This requires offensive capabilities to accomplish.
Pre containment most set didnt come into their own until after level 32+. That means you were basically were an XP leech for 32 levels. Move forward to post ED, post Containment, and post APP the chasm between the outliers and the WAI sets grew bigger and bigger with each implementation.
You pointed out Fire as an outlier. IMO Fire is weak in the control department and was probably compensated for this with extra damage in Hot Feet. It is overpowered? I think so only when its paired with /Kin. Paired with other secondaries its middle of the road.
I find sets such as Mind, Plant and Illusion to be thoughtfully put together sets and even more rewarding to play. Gravity is close but still needs work. Earth and Ice need a slight boost somewhere. (Earth is excellent if not the best for control it just lags in soloability)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TheWeaver
|
One chain is good. If we were to keep one I would say keep Synaptic Overload considering its branching mechanic (I didnt see Jolting behave this way). I wouldnt mind seeing Jolting turned into a TK like power but instead of a repelling hold turn it into a stunning dot toggle with a high end cost or something. Think Sith Force Lightning attack here.
Ill stop my rant here. Please dont take anything personal or the wrong way.
Its merely my opinion and a bit of venting.
Quote:
'XP leech'? Helping a team not suffer loss of XP from debt and lost time from regrouping after defeats is leeching XP? If you feel everyone should have a good mix of offense and defense (like the redside ATs), that's a viewpoint I can understand. It certainly would help in soloing. But it's not like offense light controllers contribute nothing. Also, are you completely ignoring force multiplication?|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
Pre containment most set didn’t come into their own until after level 32+. That means you were basically were an XP leech for 32 levels. Move forward to post ED, post Containment, and post APP the chasm between the outliers and the “WAI” sets grew bigger and bigger with each implementation.
|
I do agree about the target cap being too low on Conductive Aura and the chains not exactly being the same as real AoEs/cones, though.
Quote:
Even if the proc worked, it would probably Placate for the pseudo-pet. I did my testing with a mind controller using Mass Hypnosis. That's why I feel pretty certain that it's not working at all in PVE.
|
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
Even if the proc fired, isn't the expect behavior that the Static Field pseudo pet would placate the mob vice the summoner placating the mob? or is it expected that it will function similar to the proc when slotted in Poison Gas Arrow (which I believe also summons some type of pseudo pet) or other AoE sleeps?
|
Missing the first target is still a major problem of course.