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Well I personally wasn't happy with Hot Feet V2.0 because as you said, the stun was very overpowered and Hot Feet itself already makes Fire Control an outlier in terms of damage. Giving Electric Control its own version seemed to set the bar at Fire Control's level, which wouldn't be good for all the other sets. Having said that, now that the power doesn't stun and the fact the set as a whole lacks in other areas (like reliable hard control) I have changed my thinking; I keep feeling the power should now be doing some minor damage with each tick. This would require giving it a substantial end cost however. The only drawback is it wouldn't work well with Static Field's sleep which as you rightly point out, is the crutch of the set.
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Originally Posted by saltyhero13
My main gripe is that the set plays fairly slow on a controller (at low levels especially). I really wish they kept the damage component to the Conductive Aura. The stun was clearly overpowered; I don't see why they dropped the damage aspect (I speculate that it was out of fear of turning into another Fire Control Clone). This set really needs help at low levels. Since we are stuck with the powers as-is I am hoping that the devs reconsider moving some powers around to help bolster the set for earlier play.
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I was always able to reliably recreate it on my Stone/Fire brute by Stunning a group that was getting back to its feet.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Errr, about that... the "warp speed" phenomenon only happens when you stun a mob that's aggroed and is moving from point A to point B. If you fire off the stun before the mob's aggroed, they'll just sort of wander in place.
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So Tremor -> *Fault would always produce it without fail, but Fault -> Tremor wouldn't. That's the only time I've been able to produce it "On Demand" other times have probably been as you say.
Sapping is generally not an effective control mechanism anyway, so I think I'll be sticking with trying out an Elec/Thorns/Mu domi, looks like it will play similiar to my Ice/Psi, a soft-control meleer.
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People are always criticizing Static Field as being useless, but I used it with Gremlins and Chain Fences constantly waking mobs up. Static Field just put them right back to sleep over and over. That's a huge game changer, making the power useful in nearly all circumstances. |
The 40 second base recharge is nice though, being able to lay fresh ones almost On Demand is pretty useful, especially when you consider things like Add groups and incoming ambushes.
In terms of mechanics I'm delighted that the Chaining mechanic has been reused for a control set.*
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It seems to me almost more like a Spectral Terror . . . . the foes are controlled until you hit them with something, then they can hit back until the next sleep pulse when they go back under. Compare that to a Fear aura, where the foes cower unless they are hit with something, and then they can take one shot at you before going back into a cower.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Looking at how it's {Static Field} designed it seems to me that it'll be something between Earthquake and Volcanic Gases in terms of how it will work. For Alpha mitegation it looks pretty good, after that on teams it may work a bit like a Fall Over patch where things are out of commission for a few seconds. And like Fall over patches there will be some powers which will nullify it if you're not careful (like DoT or Rains). Static Field -> Synaptic Overload looks like a nice opening combo too.
The 40 second base recharge is nice though, being able to lay fresh ones almost On Demand is pretty useful, especially when you consider things like Add groups and incoming ambushes. In terms of mechanics I'm delighted that the Chaining mechanic has been reused for a control set.* |
I plan to roll up an Elec/Rad as a new combo that can take advantage of Choking Cloud. An Elec/Rad seems to have a lot of similarities to an Ice/Rad, with EndDrain replacing the Slow and -Recharge.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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That's a good comparision alright, I've been a Domi for too long, keep forgetting about Spooky. |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
It seems to me almost more like a Spectral Terror . . . . the foes are controlled until you hit them with something, then they can hit back until the next sleep pulse when they go back under. Compare that to a Fear aura, where the foes cower unless they are hit with something, and then they can take one shot at you before going back into a cower.
I plan to roll up an Elec/Rad as a new combo that can take advantage of Choking Cloud. An Elec/Rad seems to have a lot of similarities to an Ice/Rad, with EndDrain replacing the Slow and -Recharge. |
So is it like Spooky in that you can only have one out at a time?
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Yeah, I was wondering about that, since it's definitely possible to get the recharge down to consistently have two Static Fields out--if it doesn't have code limiting you to one. So this might actually be a set decent at controlling multiple spawns at once (if you can do two Static Fields).|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
That's a good comparision alright, I've been a Domi for too long, keep forgetting about Spooky.
So is it like Spooky in that you can only have one out at a time? |
Example: Fire off Static Field at one spawn. Fire off Synapse Overload at it. Now fire off Static Field at the second spawn and engage it as normal, refreshing Static Field on the first spawn. By the time you clear the second spawn, the first spawn should be mostly confused.
Someone really needs to test this, if they haven't already (someone probably has). Just three SOs plus Hasten should be enough for a little overlap.
As for Domination, this set would likely get a low control benefit from that. Doesn't make it a bad Dominator set.
Hmm, one way to think of Synapse Overload would be as a self-casting single target confuse that uses up none of your animation time after the first target. There're some issues though with that comparison--you can't control what it targets after the first target, and mob deaths can terminate it early. If there was a way to stop that mob death caveat, it'd be a better power.
It would benefit greatly from the purple Confuse proc, of course.
Anyway, it isn't Seeds or Mass Confusion, but I don't think it was intended to be. It seems more like it fills the single target confuse niche in a really weird and quirky way. It'd be a decent power to use after the initial minion-clearing salvo, perhaps.
Hard to say what the best tactics would be--this really is a set that requires different tactics from other sets, and it'll likely take time to work those out.
I honestly couldn't tell you whether you can have more than 1 static field up at once or not, my gut feeling is that you wont be able to, but who knows.
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Are you sure about the Mu Mastery part. I recall reading somewhere ( I believe it was the last Q&A ) that each AT is still stuck with the Epic pool they belong to. Pretty much similar to way the powers are the Epics are locked in also.|
Originally Posted by ketch
I suggest anyone that wants to be a sapper look into taking the Mu Mastery (yes, controllers that go redside will have access to dom PPP's). Power Sink is going to give some good AoE endurance drain when slotted and you've built up some recharge. The Mu Guardian is also going to drop some nice endurance drain along with some -recovery. I suspect that the single target end drain from Transference may be only a small part of the equation in the long run.
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But if we can change that would be cool also. Maybe it was already established level 50 toons that can switch.
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I'm going to try and out an Elec/Cold Dom. I love Rad... and I probably use Rad too much, so I want to try out something new, and it seems like EC and CD might mesh pretty well as a buff/debuff monster.
So the Gremlins come in pairs? Do they do -end as well?
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I have the same experiences as many of the other testers. It is a lot like Ice Control in that it doesn't really have a reliable opener or reliable control, but you can work it. It also has pathetic damage. I will say that when SOLO you can get pretty reliable control opening with the AOE Sleep and then moving in for the Chain Confuse. The Chain Confuse is the closest thing the set has to reliability. I think having some stealth might make it easier to open without the sleep.
I mainly played Electric/FF and Electric/Sonic on test. I really liked both, and I LOVED Elec/Sonic back with the Aura had damage due to the stacking resist debuffs. But ... Oh Well! 
I still love Elec/FF just because the bad guys whiffing while your various controls do their their thing, well its kinda nice. I also tried Elec/Storm and didn't care for it.
I expect that on Live, I'll do Elec/Storm (just because I already have every Storm controller at 50 so I need to complete my set). And while Elec/Storm was not fantastic, it had some interesting aspects.
However, on Live I will also make Elec/FF because I enjoyed it so much. I am also strongly inclined to try Elec/TA and Elec/Rad, just because they will shore up the mediocre / unreliably control of Electric Control.
For Doms, I am thinking Elec/Psi, Elec/Energy, or both.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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I'll Have to agree here. And not just melee centric, but considering you'll be running with 3 aoe damage auras (mud pots+2 imp auras), 2 PBaoes, those cc's of elec coupled with the recovery aura of the set might make a really awesome combo. Mu mastery has some nice overall balance conerning defences, damage and utility, so i'd go for that, Villain wise. While i have no real clue when it comes for Blue Side, with a first glance, i'd go for /Storm for more offense, /Sonic or /Force Field for defenses and /Rad for that funky Choking cloud/Recovery aura combo.
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Originally Posted by Genesis Man
My first impressions are actually quite favorable on a Dominator. Combined with /Stone, there's a very nice variety and feel for a melee-centric character.
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A couple of quick points about the set now that we can talk about it. There's no real order to these comments, and they represent only my opinions.
- I agree that Storm (and Cold Domination) are poor choices to pair with Electric Control. In addition to the rain powers waking enemies in your sleep patch, if you bowl an enemy backwards it can break powers that chain from enemy to enemy. Overall it was the worst of the set combos I tested, and maybe one of the worst combos I've ever worked with between a Controller primary and secondary.
- Regarding the chain effect: A lot has been said about this, but we need to be clear that the odds to hit ALL of the enemies in an area with a chain power are the same as if you were aiming for 16 enemies in a regular power, or about a 44%. Where chains differ are in the chance to miss lots of enemies. The math on this is tricky but typically you have a higher chance to roll a critical miss but the same chance to hit everything.
- About the overall level of control. This set is quite capable, thanks to Synaptic Overload. If you look at this power, you will note that it is a ranged, non-aggro version of Seeds of Confusion. It has the same accuracy and recharge. The only issue with it is its chance to miss all targets (5%) due to the chain effect mentioned above. With this set, you probably want to open with this power, but then have a backup power to use if you miss completely. I used the AoE hold. Missing is frustrating but the enemy won't know you tried to attack it anyway.
- The damage is better than Ice Control. If you've played that set and been ok with it you will be more than fine here. Especially since Electric has an actual opener power (Synaptic), and fewer inherent power conflicts.
- This set kind of rocks at endurance drain due to a critical difference between it and other draining sets: you can lock stuff down with it and drain them before they're unmezzed. Ice Control can't do this with -Recharge because it requires the enemy to take a swing, and Electric Blast certainly can't either. The way I approached endurance drain was to lock the enemy down at first, then drain them so they woke up with no ability to retaliate. They will still get some swings in (again, see Ice Control) but couldn't do it as often.
- There is a debate about slotting Conductive Aura with procs, and whether the proc affects the caster, enemy, or both.
- Best secondaries for a Controller in my opinion: Trick Arrow (a great combo that was soloing at level 41 +0x4 with no enhancements), Thermal (shields, heals, and +damage for the imps, but especially the -200% Recovery for 40 seconds in Heat Exhaustion!) and Force Field (mezz protection + free endurance recovery). Radiation was predictably good. Kinetics was pretty blah, for me, because it just makes more sense to lock stuff down and then drain it than to drain it slowly while risking your tail up close. As mentioned, Storm was poor. Cold's endurance recovery power isn't really need and Sleet is a poor compliment to the sleep patch. I didn't test Empathy because Thermal seemed like a better choice in most departments.
- Overall power score: approximately equivalent to Earth Control. Far better than Gravity (I don't get the comparisons there at all), and somewhat more powerful than Ice. Not as cut and dry as Plant, Illusion or a Fire/Kin. Definitely worthy as a control set even if bumpy from time to time, especially if paired with a strong secondary. The chaining effects may still need some work, but Synaptic Overload is already VERY powerful most of the time, so if it ever becomes more reliable, expect a recharge increase.
- If you're going to do endurance drain, you want to slot Endurance Mod in more than just Conductive Aura. Don't slot chain powers. But slot the cages, and the imps.
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As noted in another thread, controller APP's will remain the same. However, a controller that goes over to the red side can unlock Patron Pools by completing a patron's arc. That means, in addition to our current APP's, controllers will have access to Dominator PPP's. Note that you cannot mix and match though, PPP's are treated as if you selected an APP. Currently, there is one conflict in Mace Mastery, duplicating PFF. I expect that will be changed shortly after GR goes live.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
Are you sure about the Mu Mastery part. I recall reading somewhere ( I believe it was the last Q&A ) that each AT is still stuck with the Epic pool they belong to. Pretty much similar to way the powers are the Epics are locked in also.
But if we can change that would be cool also. Maybe it was already established level 50 toons that can switch. |
And yes, I'm certain of this information. I have taken my fire/ff'er redside on the beta server.
BTW for those of you seeking screenshots of the powers, I apparently only thought to take one when my access still worked. Below is a pic of my Elec/Therm test character working a farm map for test purposes.
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I agreed with your entire post except this one. I rate Earth Control the #1 or maybe #2 set at worst, whereas I consider Electric Control to be blandly in the middle of the pack, and occasionally unreliable.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
- Overall power score: approximately equivalent to Earth Control.
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Basically, I think Electric Control is a fine and interesting set, but equal to Earth Control? No Way. Then again, the things I like about Earth Control are woefully absent from Electric Control; whereas you may not care about them.
But great overall synopsis.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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I would agree with Lewis, but add one more thing . . . I think there is a strong synergy with Rad as a secondary. I rolled up a Elec/Rad and was pretty happy with its ability to use the sleep patch or confuse as an opener, run in with the aura and Choking Cloud running, pop a AoE Immob, and then stand there while the Gremlins killed off the foes. What makes it work so well is that foes not held by Choking Cloud will mostly be out of endurance and unable to attack. Plus, the Recovery boost helps to make up for the endurance cost of Choking Cloud.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
I agreed with your entire post except this one. I rate Earth Control the #1 or maybe #2 set at worst, whereas I consider Electric Control to be blandly in the middle of the pack, and occasionally unreliable.
Basically, I think Electric Control is a fine and interesting set, but equal to Earth Control? No Way. Then again, the things I like about Earth Control are woefully absent from Electric Control; whereas you may not care about them. But great overall synopsis. Lewis |
In low levels, the AoE Immob+Radiation Infection+Jolting Chains will go a long way to making up for the lack of AoE control. The Rad Debuffs also work well with the Sleep Patch to set up debuffing before the foes realize you are there.
I tried an Elec/Kin, and wasn't nearly as happy with it as the Elec/Rad. I also tried an Elec/Fire Dom in Praetoria, and in low levels, it was a pretty tough road.
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I like the set on paper. It can affect mobs out of line of sight if lucky. The sleep is particularly useful.
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This stood out for me as well, but when I reread it I realized he wasn't comparing it to Earth in terms of control. |
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
I agreed with your entire post except this one. I rate Earth Control the #1 or maybe #2 set at worst, whereas I consider Electric Control to be blandly in the middle of the pack, and occasionally unreliable.
Basically, I think Electric Control is a fine and interesting set, but equal to Earth Control? No Way. Then again, the things I like about Earth Control are woefully absent from Electric Control; whereas you may not care about them. But great overall synopsis. Lewis |
Earth is definitely in my top two for control. I agree with Oedipus, if I am reading his post correctly, that Electric is at the bottom of the heap in terms of damage.
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Originally Posted by saltyhero13
This stood out for me as well, but when I reread it I realized he wasn't comparing it to Earth in terms of control.
Earth is definitely in my top two for control. I agree with Oedipus, if I am reading his post correctly, that Electric is at the bottom of the heap in terms of damage. |
I would put Earth ahead in terms of raw control, behind in damage. While Earth is a great set it lacks Confusion capabilities. Interestingly, Electric has tipped the scales for Controllers, who now have more sets with a Confuse than sets that don't. Only Gravity and Fire also lack the capability.
A while back I posted that I consider control sets in general to be loosely divided into "Elemental Debuff" (Ice, Earth), "Elemental Damage" (Fire, Gravity, Plant), and "Psi Setup" (Mind, Illusion) sets. To me, Electric falls mostly into the "Elemental Debuff" category due to low-ish damage and appreciable secondary effects. But with Synaptic Overload it dips into the "Psi Setup" category as well. Earth or Ice is forced to alert enemies on their opening attack, but not Electric. Electric meanwhile trades some of their safety. This is why I call it about even with Earth, even if each would have different scenarios where it shines.
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While this is true, assuming you open with Stalagmites or Earthquake (Earth) or Ice Patch (Ice), most of the mob won't be returning fire even though they're alerted.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Earth or Ice is forced to alert enemies on their opening attack
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Baring in mind that Conductive Aura is 8 targets max, is it still viable to sap a whole x8 spawn? What tricks were people using because I found it quite difficult, although I am not very experienced in the world of sapping. Spamming Caged Fences and slotting it for End Mod was what I went for.
Also anyone noticed Paralytic Blast? It is a ranged AoE hold, but has a 30 ft. radius, usually reserved for PBAoE holds. It is also the only source of 100% chance for -recovery. Seems like it is meant to be an emergancy button for the set.
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Glad I'm not the only one with a Rad addiction...
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
I think there is a strong synergy with Rad as a secondary. I rolled up a Elec/Rad...
Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide |
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Glad I'm not the only one with a Rad addiction...
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I also have Plant/Rad and Fire/Rad at 50, a second Ill/Rad at 44, a second Fire/Rad who just hit 45. My Ice/Rad, Mind/Rad and Grav/Rads are all low level, and on servers I don't go to very often . . .
. . . I got it bad . . .
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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First thanks for posting all the numbers Peacemoon.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Updated with numbers.
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Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Well I personally wasn't happy with Hot Feet V2.0 because as you said, the stun was very overpowered and Hot Feet itself already makes Fire Control an outlier in terms of damage. Giving Electric Control its own version seemed to set the bar at Fire Control's level, which wouldn't be good for all the other sets. Having said that, now that the power doesn't stun and the fact the set as a whole lacks in other areas (like reliable hard control) I have changed my thinking; I keep feeling the power should now be doing some minor damage with each tick. This would require giving it a substantial end cost however. The only drawback is it wouldn't work well with Static Field's sleep which as you rightly point out, is the crutch of the set.
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As it stands the set favors Dominators. I think a quick fix to the set to bring it up to speed for Controllers is to take a look at rearranging the order of powers. I would be happy if they increased the damage on Jolting Chains some to help Controllers out in the lower levels who don't have access to Assault Secondaries.
Bringing Synaptic Overload in earlier can help. Lets face it, Synaptic Overload is far from being a Seeds of Confusion especially considering how slow it jumps and its ability to jump if the mob is spread out diminishes rapidly. I still dont see how this power rates to be a Tier 8 power compared to other sets Tier 8 powers (Yes I have looked at the sets side by side for a holistic comparison). The problem is if Synaptic Overload is moved up nothing else in the set is a suitable Tier 8 IMO.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I would put Earth ahead in terms of raw control, behind in damage. While Earth is a great set it lacks Confusion capabilities. Interestingly, Electric has tipped the scales for Controllers, who now have more sets with a Confuse than sets that don't. Only Gravity and Fire also lack the capability.
A while back I posted that I consider control sets in general to be loosely divided into "Elemental Debuff" (Ice, Earth), "Elemental Damage" (Fire, Gravity, Plant), and "Psi Setup" (Mind, Illusion) sets. To me, Electric falls mostly into the "Elemental Debuff" category due to low-ish damage and appreciable secondary effects. But with Synaptic Overload it dips into the "Psi Setup" category as well. Earth or Ice is forced to alert enemies on their opening attack, but not Electric. Electric meanwhile trades some of their safety. This is why I call it about even with Earth, even if each would have different scenarios where it shines. |
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Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Yeah, I was wondering about that, since it's definitely possible to get the recharge down to consistently have two Static Fields out--if it doesn't have code limiting you to one. So this might actually be a set decent at controlling multiple spawns at once (if you can do two Static Fields).
Example: Fire off Static Field at one spawn. Fire off Synapse Overload at it. Now fire off Static Field at the second spawn and engage it as normal, refreshing Static Field on the first spawn. By the time you clear the second spawn, the first spawn should be mostly confused. Someone really needs to test this, if they haven't already (someone probably has). Just three SOs plus Hasten should be enough for a little overlap. |
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Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Baring in mind that Conductive Aura is 8 targets max, is it still viable to sap a whole x8 spawn? What tricks were people using because I found it quite difficult, although I am not very experienced in the world of sapping. Spamming Caged Fences and slotting it for End Mod was what I went for.
Also anyone noticed Paralytic Blast? It is a ranged AoE hold, but has a 30 ft. radius, usually reserved for PBAoE holds. It is also the only source of 100% chance for -recovery. Seems like it is meant to be an emergency button for the set. |
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In my experience, it did feel a lot like a working with Ice. Because Electric relies on lots of ticks of -end and lacks a long -recovery power, it occasionally lets a shot or two get through even after the enemies are drained. Of course, the difference being that Ice can quickly drop Shiver on a mob and gain the benefit of -recharge, while Electric takes 10 seconds or so to reach that same result.
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Originally Posted by saltyhero13
Using your taxonomy I would classify Electric more akin to Ice mainly for the reason that -recovery and -end drain together behave more like slows IMO. Sapping basically allows the mobs to attack initially but can considerably reduce the rate of attack or even flat out halt attacks after the alpha.
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The power is no-aggro which is great, but what I found was that if I wanted to wait for the chain to fully apply before attacking, the spawn was at risk of self destructing before I engaged. You could start with the sleep, but that is just lengthening the "set up time". The redeeming factor is that the recharge and accuarcy are pretty good and so the numbers seem to be balanced as if it was a cone power, not a straight AoE.