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if it were true
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Originally Posted by Hindenburg
nice
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Originally Posted by ketch
In my experience, it did feel a lot like a working with Ice. Because Electric relies on lots of ticks of -end and lacks a long -recovery power, it occasionally lets a shot or two get through even after the enemies are drained. Of course, the difference being that Ice can quickly drop Shiver on a mob and gain the benefit of -recharge, while Electric takes 10 seconds or so to reach that same result.
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True, but don't forget that -Recharge is meaningless unless the enemy uses the power (incidentally why I kind of hit the roof when folks suggest Arctic Air, with its confusion ability to force enemies to expend powers on each other instead of you, is not a vital Ice power). -Endurance, if you can pull it off, works on enemies even if you get the drop on them and mezz them straight away. With this set, I'd encourage a mezz-first-drain-later technique.
How do you guys think Cold would work with Electric? I've been looking at it and theorycraft wise it doesn't look too bad.
I understand that Sleet kills the sleep however I have found that knockdown fields tend to be pretty good control in and of themselves (Quicksand + Earthquake is one of my favorite combos). The AoE immob not providing immunity just makes the knockdown field that much more potent, I know a lot of folks mention gravity when Freezing Rain and Sleet come up. Now we have another set that can immob mobs in the rain.
Heat Loss which with just two SO endmods hits enemies for 55% of thier end sure doesn't hurt with sapping.
Since Electric isn't as strong with hard control as other sets the defense buffs in Cold are definately more useful for those situations where a chain fizzles too soon or you have a Fire Blaster on the team.
Arctic Fog's lesser stealth makes it safer and easier to set up the sleep field and chain confuse.
And of course Benumb, the gold old AV killer debuff.
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The problem I have with this approach is the unreliable control outside of the AoE Hold. Static Field worked well enough when solo. On a team, I suppose we fall back on Synaptic Overload, a power with which I have many problems. In either case, I found the enemies likely to get a shot or two off before they were sapped anyway. Also bear in mind as well, situations in which sapping becomes important are situations in which standard controls are less effective, such as the ITF.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
True, but don't forget that -Recharge is meaningless unless the enemy uses the power (incidentally why I kind of hit the roof when folks suggest Arctic Air, with its confusion ability to force enemies to expend powers on each other instead of you, is not a vital Ice power). -Endurance, if you can pull it off, works on enemies even if you get the drop on them and mezz them straight away. With this set, I'd encourage a mezz-first-drain-later technique.
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As for Synaptic Overload, I'm aware you like the power, but I find it much too unreliable and slow for my tastes. The 5% chance for a critical miss is much too high for a staple control. Compare that with a similar chance of absolute failure from Seeds, .05^16 or less than a millionth of a percent, and things don't look so great for SO. The slow propagation throughout a mob also means waiting and allowing the mob to do significant damage to itself before safely moving in or alerting them to your presence with Static Field. It may be aggro free, a trait I love in Mind Control's powers, and only have the endurance cost of a single target mez but I don't feel either of those offset the problems with the power. In my opinion, to better balance this power and bring Electric up to the level of control it needs the recharge to be reduced and the endurance cost increased.
IMO it's a matter of opinion but the difference to me is Seeds an opening power, and not a "pre-tanking" one that you throw prior to starting the fight. The comparison is not Seeds versus Synaptic Overload, but Seeds versus Synaptic Overload plus whatever you layer on it that starts the fight. Plant Control is not at liberty to make this distinction.
The same holds when compared to Mind Control. SO does have a base 5% chance to miss. However, it also has a 100% chance to be active 4 times as often as Mass Confusion. The recharge is equivalent to Mind's sleep power. I think it's extremely competitive in that department, so much so that I'm not sure Mass Confusion doesn't need a recharge reduction to compensate.
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I agree Seeds is very much an opener, something that Electric control is lacking. As such Plant does not need to layer extra mitigation in most cases, but when it does it can also fall back on it's AoE hold or the distraction caused by Creepers. While I'm far more content with Seeds alone, Seeds and Creepers together provide far more mitigation than I've found Electric able to muster.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IMO it's a matter of opinion but the difference to me is Seeds an opening power, and not a "pre-tanking" one that you throw prior to starting the fight. The comparison is not Seeds versus Synaptic Overload, but Seeds versus Synaptic Overload plus whatever you layer on it that starts the fight. Plant Control is not at liberty to make this distinction.
The same holds when compared to Mind Control. SO does have a base 5% chance to miss. However, it also has a 100% chance to be active 4 times as often as Mass Confusion. The recharge is equivalent to Mind's sleep power. I think it's extremely competitive in that department, so much so that I'm not sure Mass Confusion doesn't need a recharge reduction to compensate. |
As for a pre-tank power, SO, I feel falls far behind the single target confuses which can quickly and reliably dispatch problem mobs. Even if you miss, they're up soon enough to try again. If SO misses, pre-tanking is ruled out for that mob and it's on to plan B. Unfortunately, I don't think Electric has a very good plan B. Compare that with the options within Mind, the du jour pre-tank set. Mass Confusion and Mass Hypnosis+Total Dom both offer relatively 100% aggro free openings and when they're unavailable Mass Hypnosis + select single target mezzes fill the gap for taking out the most dangerous mobs.
This also ignores the additional complication that Electric has two very stupid pets.
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That's effectively the argument I made on the beta boards. The sleep/confuse combo are a common thread for plant and EC. Seeds is a superior confuse to synaptic overload, but static field is a superior sleep to spore burst. I agree that static field is going to suffer in group play due to the AoE centric nature of the game. It's still very functional for stutter step control.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IMO it's a matter of opinion but the difference to me is Seeds an opening power, and not a "pre-tanking" one that you throw prior to starting the fight. The comparison is not Seeds versus Synaptic Overload, but Seeds versus Synaptic Overload plus whatever you layer on it that starts the fight. Plant Control is not at liberty to make this distinction.
The same holds when compared to Mind Control. SO does have a base 5% chance to miss. However, it also has a 100% chance to be active 4 times as often as Mass Confusion. The recharge is equivalent to Mind's sleep power. I think it's extremely competitive in that department, so much so that I'm not sure Mass Confusion doesn't need a recharge reduction to compensate. |
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No, but an electric/ Energy, Ice, or Earth would be a viable for sapping because Power Build doubles the sapping potential of your powers while it's active. Grab the Mu PPP set at level 40 for the Mu pet and Ball of lightening which also have -endurance. But you really... REALLY want Mu for Power Sink. Power Build Up > Power Sink > Electric control powers = Sapped enemies.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
So, with an aura instead of a click pbaoe end drain, will this be viable as elect/elect dom to work as a sapper?
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Mu pets also heals you which is a plus.
Personally, I'm putting the Stun proc on all my electric control powers and electric pets (Gremlins/Mu) on my electric/Earth dom. Between those proc, the stun aoe /earth has, sapping, and knockdowns will make up for electric's questionable control potential.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
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I was thinking /Psi would be a good choice. It doesn't look like many of Elec/'s powers have much consistent -recovery, and Drain Psyche would fill that hole. For normal spawns, no it's not that big of a deal. But for trying to drain AV's/GM's, probably EB's as well, it is essential, IMO. Then again, while teaming it's not that useful to try to sap tougher enemies, while solo it can be fun.
I think I'll roll an Elec/Psi/Mu dom, and also an Elec/Kin troller once GR hits. I might change my mind and go Elec/Earth dom though, since I just got done playing a Mind/Psi to 50.
what have people been pairing with elec control on their controllers?
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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I've seen an abundance of Elec/Kin in the lowbie areas today.
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Originally Posted by Hazygreys
what have people been pairing with elec control on their controllers?
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Therm is the way to go. If your gonna take the ultimate end sapping set then pair it with something to ensure it can sap the big dogs into the grounds. Heat Exhaustion ftw!
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/Cold, /Rad, /Forcefield, /Sonic, /Kin, /Empathy.|
Originally Posted by Hazygreys
what have people been pairing with elec control on their controllers?
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Elec Control gives the caster A LOT of end so a lot of end hungry secondaries become tolerable Thanks to conductive aura/static field.
Kin seems to have natural synergy with the set.
The sleep is excellent for a Kinetic Opener, since most kin powers do not break sleep.
Transference allows you to very quickly drain a boss with Elec's further drains.
Conductive Aura likes you to be up close, which is where Kinetics want to be.
Siphon Speed allows for the hard control, to be up alot more often.
Speed Boost for Gremlins helps solve their main problem, being a bit slow.
Elec/Kin's main downside is that it is a relatively frailer set, since Elec lacks alot of the control many other sets bring.
Been working on mine and with tough, Epic shield and minimal defense slotting you can create a cheap and very effective melee range controller... hit 48 last night and im going red side very soon to grab myself Mu mastery.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Thermal or Trick Arrow.
I'm enjoying my Electric Control/Force Field Controller. It's certainly slower-going to level than the scrappers I'm used to playing, but it's still very fun. Besides, I'm in no rush to dodge past all the new level 1 - 20 content!
-Buxley
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." -- Dr. Seuss
Static Fields sleep is only 5 seconds long at least at level 25 not the 25ish seconds it say in the desciption and gives half the amount it drains to people in the field. I imagine the slow and recharge also only apply to targets hit by the sleep for the same 5 second duration.
Jolting chain knockdown starts sooner then the 2 second cast and should jump about 2-3 targets before you can do something else from my observations.
I have noticed some comments suggesting /TA is a good pairing with Elec control.
Having never played /TA, I am pretty ignorant about it.
I would greatly appreciate it if people would put a few synergies between the two or possibly a standard attack chain that highlights how the two work well together.
I'm not a min/maxer, but I do love me some nice synergy in my powersets.
Thanks and happy hunting!
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One of the advantages of selecting /TA is that it brings extra control when paired with any primary. A secondary benefit is that its light on endurance usage. In the later levels /TA brings some damage to the table with Oil Slick Arrow. Its AoE debuff and KD power that ignites into an AoE damage power that is on a fairly long recharge timer.|
Originally Posted by Screwyrabbit
I have noticed some comments suggesting /TA is a good pairing with Elec control.
Having never played /TA, I am pretty ignorant about it. I would greatly appreciate it if people would put a few synergies between the two or possibly a standard attack chain that highlights how the two work well together. I'm not a min/maxer, but I do love me some nice synergy in my powersets. Thanks and happy hunting! |
The way I see it Electric control is somewhat dependent on its -end drain and -recovery secondary effects to provide adequate levels of control. Its also a late blooming set that operates primarily with soft controls. /TA supplements Elec/ with extra control and debuffs. Elec/ does have Conductive Aura and Static Field, two powers that provide +recovery and +end to the user. With a fairly light end using secondary such as /TA I could see this being a combination that could forego Stamina (though I warn you that I have not tested this myself.)
The only drawback I could see is the redraw for /TA considering that Elec/ is a very active set to play effectively. The other drawback I see is that IMO /TA is designed to play at range and Elec/ is designed to play at melee distance. So there are some negative synergy as well.You could always play in melee i guess.
As far as specific power combos you have the ability to double stacking immobilization and double stack holds. Static Field + Glue Arrow + Poison Gas Arrow could be one combo. Another Could be Oil Slick Arrow + Jolting Chain could be another.
I having played Elec/TA together. Currently I chose Elec/Thermal to play, so I offer my experience from playtime as both Elec/Thermal and Ill/TA. I'm sure someone that is actually playing both sets together could share there observations of this particular combination.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Thermal or Trick Arrow.
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Excuse me while my Elec/Storm/Fire steamrolls past the therms and trick arrows. O-\-<]:
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Which is less relevant given as you point out, |
Originally Posted by saltyhero13
One of the advantages of selecting /TA is light on endurance usage.
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| Elec/ does have Conductive Aura and Static Field, two powers that provide +recovery and +end to the user. |
Radiation is another good option given the ability to run many toggles with nearly no end issue, and obviously Kin works well with Elec, as it does with basically all the other primaries.
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I agree that elec/storm plays nicer than what people are crediting it. Freezing Rain and Electric Fences is nearly as good as a hold, and while some point out the conflict between Freezing Rain and Static Field the same problem occurs with Oil Slick as soon as it's lit (given the energy damage flying around, pretty quickly). I find it odd to say elec/storm is a poor pairing while grav/storm is lauded. If anything I like the combo for helping to deal with storm's very endurance heavy powers.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
Which is less relevant given as you point out,
I tried all the combinations at 42+ during c/b and I found the synergy of Elec/Storm to be nearly ideal depending on your playstyle, which in this pairing of course requires a melee type mindset. Radiation is another good option given the ability to run many toggles with nearly no end issue, and obviously Kin works well with Elec, as it does with basically all the other primaries. |
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Originally Posted by ketch
I agree that elec/storm plays nicer than what people are crediting it. Freezing Rain and Electric Fences is nearly as good as a hold, and while some point out the conflict between Freezing Rain and Static Field the same problem occurs with Oil Slick as soon as it's lit (given the energy damage flying around, pretty quickly). I find it odd to say elec/storm is a poor pairing while grav/storm is lauded. If anything I like the combo for helping to deal with storm's very endurance heavy powers.
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It's the conflict between knockback and chaining powers that numbed my feelings for Elec/Storm as a combo.
I also don't consider Gravity/Storm lauded so much as a situation where a secondary rescues a mostly lackluster primary.
perma jump is ---> /up 1