It's statements like this that are adding to the mass hysteria band wagon. Mercs are SLIGHTLY less damage than other sets in favor of more control and cones. People don't see 40's or 50s above the mobs head in damage so they run around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling". What they dont take into consideration is the mercs burst of 3 x 11 and 21 x 2 damage = 33 and 42 ( you have to add all the little numbers you see together ). All of them also can do it in a cone which means while your thugs are shooting single mobs for 40 and 50 , mercs are shooting all of them for 33 and 42. ( all numbers un modified )
For the record I have all above 32 and 3 of them 50 including the mercs.
Thugs/Pain
Thugs/Poison
Necro/Pain
Bots/Traps
DS/Storm
Mercs/Dark
So I have seen them all perform fully slotted and with both upgrades
uhh mercs shoot in a cone? I've never seen my mercs hit more than 1 mob at a time with burst. like ever.
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The cones are tighter than a nun's knees and the controls are up about once per week, and all too often wasted on a single half-dead minion.
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Originally Posted by Brakner
Mercs are SLIGHTLY less damage than other sets in favor of more control and cones
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Originally Posted by Emberly
The cones are tighter than a nun's knees and the controls are up about once per week, and all too often wasted on a single half-dead minion.
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I have to agree and thinks Mercs were balanced a bit TOOO much.
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Yes all mercs level 32 upgrade are a cone ( full auto )
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Originally Posted by Dz131
uhh mercs shoot in a cone? I've never seen my mercs hit more than 1 mob at a time with burst. like ever.
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To each their own I guess , I have taken 5 MM's on 30's EB arcs and my mercs have killed them just as fast, at no time did I feel gimped.|
Originally Posted by Negate
I have to agree and thinks Mercs were balanced a bit TOOO much.
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Question: Do most of the people yelling fire! have mercs above 32? I get the fealing most have played them to say 15 or 20 and quit, you cannot judge a MM set untill 32 some mature slower
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Originally Posted by Brakner
To each their own I guess , I have taken 5 MM's on 30's EB arcs and my mercs have killed them just as fast, at no time did I feel gimped.
Question: Do most of the people yelling fire! have mercs above 32? I get the fealing most have played them to say 15 or 20 and quit, you cannot judge a MM set untill 32 some mature slower |
I didn't say they were gimped just a bit under performing. I actually don't mind their damage and I know exactly what they are capable of I just think their controls need to be looked at b/c it's on a extremely long timer.
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My mercstermind is 50, and is by far the weakest of my masterminds. The cones are far too tight, they do low/heavily resisted damage, and the controls are without value due to their long timers. Mercs are undoubtedly the absolute bottom of the barrel of the mastermind sets. That said, it's a mastermind, so it's more than up to the job, generally speaking.
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Originally Posted by Brakner
To each their own I guess , I have taken 5 MM's on 30's EB arcs and my mercs have killed them just as fast, at no time did I feel gimped.
Question: Do most of the people yelling fire! have mercs above 32? I get the fealing most have played them to say 15 or 20 and quit, you cannot judge a MM set untill 32 some mature slower |
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Yeah well so are Robot's. Full Auto Laser...|
Originally Posted by Brakner
Yes all mercs level 32 upgrade are a cone ( full auto )
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Oh and Zombie puke is AoE and Cone.
Sorry, but Merc's 'cone' is not something to be bragging about.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Yeah well so are Robot's. Full Auto Laser...
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He did say "all" so I assume he means Tier 1, 2, and 3. Robots get Full Auto on the Drones only.
Protector Bots get Photon Grenades and Seeker Drones, neither of which are a cone, and the Assault Bot gets the two missile attacks, which also are not cones.
You might argue that these upgrades are better than cones, but that's a different story. They still aren't cones. I assume that ALL of the mercs get cones at 32.
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I agree. They aren't really "gimp", because they are Masterminds after all. But they are noticeably inferior to the other sets.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Mercs are undoubtedly the absolute bottom of the barrel of the mastermind sets. That said, it's a mastermind, so it's more than up to the job, generally speaking.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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And they completely lack style. They are so boring in appearance I can barely play them more than an hour or so. At least the other sets look cool. But generic soldiers that could just as well be Council weenies? Pass.
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
I agree. They aren't really "gimp", because they are Masterminds after all. But they are noticeably inferior to the other sets.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Ok another question,
do the proc IOs stack? Because I'm going to try to slot up my pets with Achellies and Lady Grey procs, and possibly some other damage procs to up their dps a bit. Do the Achellies procs on each pet stack with each other?
Also is it worth it to chuck say 2-3 different damage procs on a pet or is just straight +% damage/acc IO's better?
Achilles' Heel procs don't stack from themselves, from other pets, or from other casters. They are unstackable with any iteration of themselves. That said they really helped my mercstermind. Damage procs, ehh, not worth it. Maybe on the bottom tier pet, and only after you are ED capped for damage.
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Thanks, I chucked a Achilles in my soldiers and also a Lady Grey proc. I figured because they shoot pretty fast they would proc alot. So far seems pretty good.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Achilles' Heel procs don't stack from themselves, from other pets, or from other casters. They are unstackable with any iteration of themselves. That said they really helped my mercstermind. Damage procs, ehh, not worth it. Maybe on the bottom tier pet, and only after you are ED capped for damage.
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They are definitely a set that would benefit from a graphics upgrade, or even better customization. I'd like to have some that looked like members of a supervillain organization; more like Hydra or COBRA instead of vanilla guys with guns.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
And they completely lack style. They are so boring in appearance I can barely play them more than an hour or so. At least the other sets look cool. But generic soldiers that could just as well be Council weenies? Pass.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Another must with Mercs is to pair them with a secondary that is good at debuffing resistance. I personally like freezing rain from the storm set (and, since most of the merc damage is range, they don't suffer that much when stuff is thrown around).
One thing I really don't like is that my top dog Commando is such a wimp. He can't really go toe to toe with many mobs (even a Lt) without me there as backup to heal him. My Spec Ops, though, for some reason, can tank better better than the Commando. Perhaps a combination of the little bit of DEF from their auto stealth and the fact that there's 2 of them beating on the NPC (if I command the spec ops to attack). Considering how bad-azz the Assault Bot is, the Commando is a real let down.
Anyways, the devs are probably not going to change Mercs besides the Achilles' Heel resist debuff. It kinds sucks that proc is pretty much a requirement. With out it, I find their kill-ability really "meh" compared to the other MM's.
Duey
Considering the relatively low damage of each individual MM pet attack, damage procs are an excellent source of additional damage. And considering that Mercs do -Def with a large majority of their attacks (Commando does Knockback with the majority of his), they get a lot of mileage out of slotted Dam Procs from the Def Debuff and Accurate Def Debuff sets. This damage pushes them to be pretty good in damage output, though still limited by their Lethal damage type.
Achilles Heel proc is also pretty good in them for the same reason. Mix together some damage and some AH procs, and they end up to be really good damage. It's just that they benefit from damage slotting a little less than other MM primaries since their basic damage is on the lower end, and from procs more than other primaries since other pets rarely get so many attacks that all benefit from the same proc, so they improve the most when you start adding procs to them.
As a side note, I believe that it was determined by testing vs vault doors (no resists) that Mercs are actually average in single-target DPS even without procs. So it's not really their base damage that makes them feel like low damage, just their damage type. They do a little bit more damage than Bots, for example (single-target), but Lethal is resisted a whole lot more than Energy.
As another note: Frankenslotting with 4 slots will max out damage and give them enough Accuracy (remember the -Def debuffs from all attacks) so that you have 2 slots free in each pet power to add procs if you want.
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Mmmmm, do you have the same Secondary for both Merc and Necro? If you just made them, then Merc actually starts out better IMO. Well, maybe Merc used to do better before they give "innate accuracy bonus before lvl 20" because each Merc hit reduces target's defense so at lower lvl, Merc's damage is actually on the "high end". This of course could be no longer the case as accuracy isn't that big of a problem before lvl 20.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Ok I know mercs are the worst set in the MM profession. But I gave it a try to see how it played and it seems like they are so much worse than my zombie MM it wasn't even funny.
Does anyone have any comparison numbers on the merc set because it seems to me they're not just slightly worse but at least 2-3 times worse than any other MM set out there, especially when grouping you get 2 ticks of a burst dot off and the mob dies from someone else. Also does it get better at higher levels? I'm lv 16 right now. |
And because Merc reduces target's defense, your Vet attacks land much easier (Sands of Mu or Staff attack).
Merc's damage without the procs can be a bit too low. This I agree. I've made two lvl 50 Merc. Merc/Poison and Merc/Storm. /Storm is like 3x better than /Poison if you ask me.
No, Merc's damage doesn't get whole lot better in comparison to other primaries because other primary's aoe either have bigger Cone or bigger Target AoE. Soldier's cone is pathetically "narrow" and Commando needs to stand between 40' to get the best out of his cones. However, Merc's single target ranged damage is actually better than Robot. It is hard to tell as Merc does mostly DoT. Another thing you need to keep in mind that while Zombies may deal better damage, they also die a lot easier being melee.
I like Merc but I like them for selfish reason. They are RARE!!! hehe And also, soldier bodies are small so they normally don't block each other unlike Robot and Demon. My god, Demons are way too huge!!! In a normal room size, two demons can't even hit through the door.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I run 4 Blood Mandates, Lady Grey Proc and Achilles in the Soldiers and Spec-Ops. 4 Blood Mandates, Sov 10% resist and Edict 5% Def in Commando.
Gives you 88% tohit 88% damage and procs ( plus the end recovery x 3 for sets )
This is my Mercs/Dark that has been around since day 1 of COV release, maybe its all the procs and Dark's -res -hit ( plus fluffy )that has tainted my opinion but I have zero issues killing +3 spawns or EB /AV's
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Mercenaries
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Soldiers -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(3), BldM'dt-Acc(3), BldM'dt-Dmg(5), LdyGrey-%Dam(5), Achilles-ResDeb%(33)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Acc-I(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(7), Dct'dW-Heal(31), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(A), DampS-ToHitDeb(11), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(17), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(19), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Equip Mercenary -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Provoke -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(17), Mocking-Rchg(19)
Level 12: Spec Ops -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(13), BldM'dt-Acc(13), BldM'dt-Dmg(15), LdyGrey-%Dam(15), Achilles-ResDeb%(33)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(42)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Shadow Fall -- RedFtn-EndRdx(A), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(46), RedFtn-Def(46)
Level 24: Fearsome Stare -- Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(25), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(25), Abys-Fear/Rng(34), Abys-Dam%(34)
Level 26: Commando -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc(27), BldM'dt-Dmg(29), EdctM'r-PetDef(29), SvgnRt-PetResDam(33)
Level 28: Petrifying Gaze -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(37), Lock-Rchg/Hold(40), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 30: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 32: Tactical Upgrade -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- EoCur-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), EoCur-Acc/Rchg(39), ToHitDeb-I(39), ToHitDeb-I(39), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(42), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(42), TtmC'tng-ResDam(45), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Soul Tentacles -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50), Range-I(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 0: Ninja Run
I like Merc but a more valid question is should the sets be balanced around having Procs/Sets?
I honestly think Merc's damage is too low without the procs.
I mean I could afford getting those procs when they were pretty cheap but now good luck on getting AH proc. Ugh.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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And how many AVs have you soloed? Because other sets can and have soloed avs. My Thugs/poison has soloed two and my bots /traps, well he's taken down more than 50 at this point.|
Originally Posted by Brakner
To each their own I guess , I have taken 5 MM's on 30's EB arcs and my mercs have killed them just as fast, at no time did I feel gimped.
Question: Do most of the people yelling fire! have mercs above 32? I get the fealing most have played them to say 15 or 20 and quit, you cannot judge a MM set untill 32 some mature slower |
I'd say most mm primaries can do really crazy things with the exception of mercs. In my opinion, MMs are sold as "why get a team when you are a team?" so they SHOULD be able to solo most of the content in the game. Which means if mercs can't they need an upgrade.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
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Why wouldnt Merc be able to solo AV's? As stated many times before Mercs Damage is the same as all other except against lethal/smashing resist. it has been proven through Combat Stats and through multiple "bank safe" damage tests. Soloing AVs is based on your secondary not your primary, as long as you have good mittigation and -regen any MM can solo an AV.
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Originally Posted by JoeKent
And how many AVs have you soloed? Because other sets can and have soloed avs. My Thugs/poison has soloed two and my bots /traps, well he's taken down more than 50 at this point.
I'd say most mm primaries can do really crazy things with the exception of mercs. In my opinion, MMs are sold as "why get a team when you are a team?" so they SHOULD be able to solo most of the content in the game. Which means if mercs can't they need an upgrade. |
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Originally Posted by Brakner
Why wouldnt Merc be able to solo AV's? As stated many times before Mercs Damage is the same as all other except against lethal/smashing resist. it has been proven through Combat Stats and through multiple "bank safe" damage tests. Soloing AVs is based on your secondary not your primary, as long as you have good mittigation and -regen any MM can solo an AV.
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Based on your post you only said you had soloed ebs. I have no idea if mercs can solo avs or not. Nobody has posted any exploits, so I was just going off of my own limited expericence.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
Ok I know mercs are the worst set in the MM profession. But I gave it a try to see how it played and it seems like they are so much worse than my zombie MM it wasn't even funny.
Does anyone have any comparison numbers on the merc set because it seems to me they're not just slightly worse but at least 2-3 times worse than any other MM set out there, especially when grouping you get 2 ticks of a burst dot off and the mob dies from someone else. Also does it get better at higher levels? I'm lv 16 right now.