Three round Hami tonight, so bring your nuke, shivans and Vanguard Heavies.
BloodsongX, if you want to see how the Hami Aggro team works (and if there's room) I can invite you to the team.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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Would love that, but won't be on tonight. Thanks for the offer though. Might take you up on it next Wednesday though. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
Three round Hami tonight, so bring your nuke, shivans and Vanguard Heavies.
BloodsongX, if you want to see how the Hami Aggro team works (and if there's room) I can invite you to the team. |
The Infamous Kytherion Arx! (@Streethawk)
Founder of Femme Triumph & Battle Chasers
Kytheria Aurelia - Vengeance Doll - Barricade Buster
Streethawk - Arc-Angel - Quantum Soldier
No problem, anytime you'd like to see how it works let me know. I'll try to get you on the team when I'm leading, and I'm sure the same goes for Arwen.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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Indeed. Since I have to stay a Vigilante for 7 days, I have time to lead one more raid until Arwen switches fully for epic badging. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
No problem, anytime you'd like to see how it works let me know. I'll try to get you on the team when I'm leading, and I'm sure the same goes for Arwen.
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After that, it'll be back to leading with my Tanker, and the invitation still stands. And on another note, I'm tossing around the idea of doing a no-retreat three rounder on Monday. Everyone game?
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
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That's a truth I've noticed from ever since I start running raids (and for the most part, unless you're one of those critical few Justice players, likely the only time you would notice is when leading - because then your focus is on the raid as a whole, as opposed to whatever tasks at hand you have).|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The blunt truth of it is that there are a critical few Justice players who will be able to carry a raid even if they are not leading.
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Those few players are the hidden talent that usually carries a Justice Hami to the finish even when the other players or the overall leader isn't that well versed in strategies and/or leadership. If/when those players do winding leading a raid, usually those are the ones that get completed the fastest/smoothest/most fun etc. Those people are the blessing and the bane of Justice. They make things easy so others can be lazy/inept. I wish they'd all take a vacation from the game for a week so everyone else would realize how much those people actually contribute to Justice instead of just being taken for granted. That being said, if you want to lead a raid as many others have done, your best bet is to get those hidden helpers of Justice to give you a hand. You probably know who most of them are. Some of them even can be lured out with bad cheese and/or catgurls. |
This is despite the fact that all of the vet hami leaders are very willing to help teach and impart that knowledge, but alas, people just want to say they lead raids without actually having to do any work.
And that's ok - hami raids depend a lot on vets - far more than any one person, especially the hami leader. And right now, we have hami vets going to raids on Justice, so it would likely only matter if large portions of them stopped going to raids. In the meantime, the vets (and I mean hami vets, not merely game vets, or the players that Pum referenced) will do 90% of the work, the scrapper leader will take credit for the scrappers being fast that night, at least one person will ask about leading a raid when they really mean that just want to be a bind-monkey while everyone else does the work because they don't want to actually learn or lead - they just want the glory.
Again that's fine - it's how things have been done on Justice, at least since I started raiding. The catch comes in when that leader goes to another server and gets put in charge of leading hamis because he comes from Justice. And then doesn't have a clue about hamis and is likely too ignorant to know how sorely ignorant they are. That makes us look bad, and I do wear my server on my sleeve.
I can tell you that on red side, I had 3 people come to me wanting to lead red raids. One has been a macro-monkey blue-side (hami leader figurehead) but honestly doesn't have a clue what they're doing, the second is a good player and would probably be up to speed on what he needs to know in less than 30 minutes - but....he has no hami credibility - I told him to start leading blue raids so he's a known commoditiy and people will follow him on a red one...silence.
At least the 3rd is someone who knows what they're doing and what everyone else is supposed to be doing *and* has the hami cred....sad thing is they're a vet who paid their dues.
Where are the new leaders willing to do the same?
Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
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Um...what you've just describe fits the description of a welfare state. Why do I need to bother learning it if you're there to fill in the blanks for me?|
Originally Posted by enrious2
Where are the new leaders willing to do the same?
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Reminds me of my linear algebra class where the teaching assistant put a ? with some other guy's name it. I didn't know or care since I got them all correct but a year later the guy who's name was on my assignment came and thanked me for the 'giving him' the answers. Turns out he fished out my copy from the submission bin and scribed it.
People tend towards laziness and selfishness unless they have no other choice.
I say we run through Justice and behead the leaders. Nothing like creative destruction to allow the shoots to grow into lubberly trees.
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Yeah and with a ton of vets, it doesn't matter because they'll carry the raid even when things go bad.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Um...what you've just describe fits the description of a welfare state. Why do I need to bother learning it if you're there to fill in the blanks for me?
People tend towards laziness and selfishness unless they have no other choice. |
It gets really noticeable when someone goes to another server and doesn't have a clue what they're doing - things start to go bad and they literally don't know what is going wrong, so they can't tell people what to do to fix it, assuming they even know.
Instead they'll blame things like bugged green mitos or a tank that dc's to cover up the fact that they are clueless rather than have people know they're useless.
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| I say we run through Justice and behead the leaders. Nothing like creative destruction to allow the shoots to grow into lubberly trees. |
Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
re excuses: The classic is not enough people. Several raids have finished with no more than 20 in under an hour and a half. You may have to ask people to switch chars or something to get more holds, but I'm pretty sure they will be willing to help out.
re. enri:
On red raids, I don't think you have to have blue raid "cred" to run them. Just be patient, advertise it, and make it known you know what you are doing by explaining what you want done and why -before- the raid, several days. Start looking for help early. People have fun doing this, ask those that have done it before for help in whatever way you need. The people who really lead -will- be more than happy to help you, no matter what may be said about them wanting a little fifedom or something.
And finally, macros are by far the *LEAST* important part of a raid. Be able to write out what you want to do in your own words. Understand why you are going to do the things you do.
Understand what to do when things go wrong. Be able to communicate how to fix it.
Understand what is important, and what is not.
"Yellows are down" repeated everytime doesnt hurt, but its not real important.
Yellow is stalled out and dying on mito 5 because the green team is light and not able to draw heals, we may wipe, I need person x to pop the blue infront of yellow 5 to get us moving again is important.
I could write a script to pop out stuff on request on a timer based on the average time a smooth raid takes to do stuff. That doesnt make it a leader. That is the level of leading and effort some people want to put in and it just isnt fair to anyone.
I didn't read through the entire thread, but I would like to say that this is why I love Justice. =)
Really, you guys are the best.
(Sorry, I just got back...it's kind of an emotional time for me, ok?!)
Kilia Zyr - 50 Empathy/Energy Defender (Master of Statesman's Task Force)
Howard Meeks - 50 Warshade (Master of Statesman's Task Force)
Carson Mane - 50 Ice/Kin Controller
Coercion - 40 Thugs/Poison Mastermind
"Her Imperial Majesty's Champion Huntsman of Justice"
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Hey Arwen, I'm up for it. I've also been kicking around the idea of a two round raid (which we briefly discussed).|
Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
Indeed. Since I have to stay a Vigilante for 7 days, I have time to lead one more raid until Arwen switches fully for epic badging.
After that, it'll be back to leading with my Tanker, and the invitation still stands. And on another note, I'm tossing around the idea of doing a no-retreat three rounder on Monday. Everyone game? |
Which leads me to.... I was wondering if anyone has the numbers or ideas about the amount of debuffing we'd need to bring down Hami with two spawns of greens supporting him. From what I've seen at the 3 rounders, current debuffs(from raiders) + Pets/Temp pets (a mix, and difficult to pin down #'s and %'s) + approx 5-10 Nukes (I'm thinking around 6 or 7), pretty much puts Hami away almost before the Tanks get back into position ( I got one taunt off, just as the mito spawned, last time).
As I see it, it looks like the Chem and Bio nukes are the most beneficial, with the Nuke nuke, providing a nice additional damage push.
Anyways, I'd appreciate any insights/numbers/advice/thoughts you have.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Count me in this time around. And feel free to yell at me if you see me at the tailor an hour or less before the raid. XD
The Infamous Kytherion Arx! (@Streethawk)
Founder of Femme Triumph & Battle Chasers
Kytheria Aurelia - Vengeance Doll - Barricade Buster
Streethawk - Arc-Angel - Quantum Soldier
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|
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
Hey Arwen, I'm up for it. I've also been kicking around the idea of a two round raid (which we briefly discussed).
Which leads me to.... I was wondering if anyone has the numbers or ideas about the amount of debuffing we'd need to bring down Hami with two spawns of greens supporting him. From what I've seen at the 3 rounders, current debuffs(from raiders) + Pets/Temp pets (a mix, and difficult to pin down #'s and %'s) + approx 5-10 Nukes (I'm thinking around 6 or 7), pretty much puts Hami away almost before the Tanks get back into position ( I got one taunt off, just as the mito spawned, last time). As I see it, it looks like the Chem and Bio nukes are the most beneficial, with the Nuke nuke, providing a nice additional damage push. Anyways, I'd appreciate any insights/numbers/advice/thoughts you have. |
From the times we rushed him on bloom one and defeated him with temps with all the blooms up, tenish nukes minimally, chem and bio, and 15-20 hvas/shivans. So, you need slightly less than half of that. Really nothing more than what is needed to knock one bloom off. You only have to hold the aggro off the pets so they dont get distracted. Distraction is the only reason slightly more might be required that for a 3 round.
More is *much* *much* better. You have to encourage people to get the stuff.
The nuke-nuke is worthless. The last time we did one of these, I posted a bunch of calculations showing the dps, dpa and everything else on ring of fire on auto from a controller without any damage slotting was better over time with the amount of buffs that should be floating around.
The order in which stuff happens is very important. It is very possible for Hamidon to lose HP too quickly. If you go pets, then nuke, you *have* to have buffs laid down and everyone on an EoE already before summoning anything, assuming you have enough. If you don't, everyone *will* get wiped out before being able to buff unless the tanks react to the new bloom at some sort of never-before-seen efficency. This is less of a factor when you just have one bloom around, but when we had 3 or 4 it was a fairly major concern.
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Thanks for the response Quartermain,|
Originally Posted by Quatermain
From the times we rushed him on bloom one and defeated him with temps with all the blooms up, tenish nukes minimally, chem and bio, and 15-20 hvas/shivans. So, you need slightly less than half of that. Really nothing more than what is needed to knock one bloom off. You only have to hold the aggro off the pets so they dont get distracted. Distraction is the only reason slightly more might be required that for a 3 round.
More is *much* *much* better. You have to encourage people to get the stuff. The nuke-nuke is worthless. The last time we did one of these, I posted a bunch of calculations showing the dps, dpa and everything else on ring of fire on auto from a controller without any damage slotting was better over time with the amount of buffs that should be floating around. The order in which stuff happens is very important. It is very possible for Hamidon to lose HP too quickly. If you go pets, then nuke, you *have* to have buffs laid down and everyone on an EoE already before summoning anything, assuming you have enough. If you don't, everyone *will* get wiped out before being able to buff unless the tanks react to the new bloom at some sort of never-before-seen efficency. This is less of a factor when you just have one bloom around, but when we had 3 or 4 it was a fairly major concern. |
What I was initially thinking was to have two seperate Nuke drops. One when the first blooms shows up and the other/final one when the last bloom spawns. this way we could maintain the buffing/debuffing I know coordination would probably be an issue, but I was going to try to get the various teams to drop on a specific wave. So, for example, Yellow Aggro drops on the "first bloom" (what would be the round 3rd bloom) along with a misfit team, Yellow Damage and Green drops on the last bloom (what would be the 4th round), memebers from Hami Aggro and remaining teams could drop when prompted (held in reserve) or drop on the last wave if they wanted.
I completely agree that getting folks there with the tools to do the job will be the challenge.
Thanks again for the input, I'll start working up my strategy.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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Ideally the raid leader should advertise and plan a ship raid right after a Hami raid just to keep the vmerits train rolling.|
Originally Posted by Quatermain
More is *much* *much* better. You have to encourage people to get the stuff.
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Given the fact that Justice tends to use ship raids to herd rikti, capping vmerits should be pretty easy within a few raids. 600-1000 merits per run should mean that there should never be a shortage of HVAS during hami raids. Or CoP for that matter.
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Hi Quartermain,|
Originally Posted by Quatermain
The nuke-nuke is worthless. The last time we did one of these, I posted a bunch of calculations showing the dps, dpa and everything else on ring of fire on auto from a controller without any damage slotting was better over time with the amount of buffs that should be floating around.
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I think I missed that posting, do you have a link for it?
Thanks,
-Warboss
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Quote:
Probably getting some Widows over from the other side would also help with having Mind Link on the raiders and pets. If anything it would reduce the amount of chaining that would go on. Nothing more annoying than being terrorized during the critical phase.
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Originally Posted by Quatermain
This is less of a factor when you just have one bloom around, but when we had 3 or 4 it was a fairly major concern.
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As long as I'm aware of a Ship Raid I can announce it towards the end of the Hami. I'd even be willing to lead one, but time constraints during the work week don't really make it feasable at this time. If one is shceduled, I'll announce it. Also, feel free to remind me, so I don't forget. |
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Ideally the raid leader should advertise and plan a ship raid right after a Hami raid just to keep the vmerits train rolling.
Given the fact that Justice tends to use ship raids to herd rikti, capping vmerits should be pretty easy within a few raids. 600-1000 merits per run should mean that there should never be a shortage of HVAS during hami raids. Or CoP for that matter. |
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Plumbobber, supposedly chain is fixed, or rather restored to the way it was so it isn't as big of an issue.
War, if it is going the way it should, there wont be time for a second wave of nuking; the debuff/buffs will last through the entire thing and far longer, by several fold the time it takes to kill him. This has been the case even when going bloom 0 to dead.
Once the pets and debuffs go down, It gets very chaotic. There was basically a bloom every minute until he was dead, it is a lot better for people to be focusing on staying alive, rezing the dead, pumping out damage and their normal debuffs at that point.
The nuke buffs/debuffs will last through two blooms.
As for the damage numbers on RoF, I'll have to dig it up again, pretty sure the post fell off the face of the earth a while back. But you are looking at about 40 or 60 from rof cast twice (1.1s cast) (+dmg and +containment) in the same time it takes to cast the nuke (2.0something cast), which will do about 55 total. They will both do proportionally more, with -dr o'course.
Looks like the nuke may accept dmg buff, so it may do more than 55, but you get the idea.
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I can answer that question... Rikti Rumble (Mothership Raid) is every Sunday at 9pm EST. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
As long as I'm aware of a Ship Raid I can announce it towards the end of the Hami. I'd even be willing to lead one, but time constraints during the work week don't really make it feasable at this time. If one is shceduled, I'll announce it. Also, feel free to remind me, so I don't forget.
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I'll start running double runs I think unless someone else steps up to run the 2nd one after mine. This should help everyone to keep stocked up on V-merits for HVAs for both Hami raids and CoP.No thanks for applause or words of appreciation. Just send your inf to Kyth @Streethawk. Thank you for your donations in making it a brighter future without Rikti Invasions.
The Infamous Kytherion Arx! (@Streethawk)
Founder of Femme Triumph & Battle Chasers
Kytheria Aurelia - Vengeance Doll - Barricade Buster
Streethawk - Arc-Angel - Quantum Soldier
Ok, I may be crazy, but I'm going to attempt a no retreat, 3R Hami tonight. This has been my ultimate goal anyway, so we may as well go for it.
I'm also going to lead my first villain raid on Thursday. With my Scrapper. >.>
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
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Sorry, for a second there, I thought you meant a villain raid.
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Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
I'm also going to lead my first villain raid on Thursday. With my Scrapper. >.>
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Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
Quote:
I did indeed. You talked about leading one Tuesday, so I thought I'd pick up Thursday and see how it goes. There seems to be a lot of interest, so why not?
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Originally Posted by enrious2
Sorry, for a second there, I thought you meant a villain raid.
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@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
Can't really stress how important tank team is for no retreat. Would make sure and get it squared away. Even a lot of the tank team regs of late will need some practice and guidance.
Bah, got distracted by new costume pieces and didn't get in early enough. Next Monday I'll park my tank in there an hour or more early... with EoEs and Heavies. >_<
The Infamous Kytherion Arx! (@Streethawk)
Founder of Femme Triumph & Battle Chasers
Kytheria Aurelia - Vengeance Doll - Barricade Buster
Streethawk - Arc-Angel - Quantum Soldier