Mind Link: How badly do i need/want it?

Much like with my Bane, i got to poking my Widow and after tweaking her build i noticed i don't really need Mind Link, as found my defenses to be capped (melee, ranged, aoe) without it, thus rendering it kinda useless.

Now, i'm fully aware how awesome the power is, but the fact is i don't need it and would like to pick up another power instead of it, something that'd fit the concept of Night Widow better, something i'd get more mileage out of, if you will.

But my dilemma is that how.. upset would potential teammates be, should i join a team (i usually form my own teams, but there are times someone manages to send me an invite before i can form anything) and not have the power?

Should i be expecting a /kick (extreme cases) or would anyone even notice that i lacked the power?

If you only solo, I can see it not being a "must" on Widow but if you want to team, Mind Link is an excellent power. Your MM pets will love you even more! It's got great defense buff and very precious Psionic resistance buff that very few sets offer.

It's your game, your call. I would rank Mind Link as a must-take but it's just me.


I mean I've seen high level Dominator without single hold and Crab/Bane not taking Maneuver. I won't rank Mind Link as important as those two powers to those two ATs but Mind Link is great.

Despite playing my own night widow a lot lately and teaming with other widows frequently, I don't think I have EVER seen anyone announcing 'gather up for mind link' or 'can I get a mind link', unlike things like rad's AM or kin's speed boost. Most teams never even mention it, I think the majority of players consider it more of a self buff that happens to have some nice, team based side effects than a true team buff.

That said, there are some folks out there who are demanding and anal about what they expect from team members, far more than I would have ever believed if I hadn't seen some of them post that info on the forums. So there IS a chance of running into someone who might kick you for not having mind link but I suspect it is very small.

I suspect the reason its considered must take is not as much for the team benefit, although that is nice, but because an extra 15% def to all positions is extremely difficult to make up with IO set bonuses and other powers. On an night widow ML is especially easy to perma as it has a lower recharge than the fortunata version and you get a free 20% global recharge from mental training. Additionally, night widows benefit hugely from recharge as it lets them use their high damage, long recharge attacks more frequently, so building for recharge is very common.

This means that hitting the softcap without using mind link is the harder task, which is probably why most folks are surprised to find you don't have it.

(cant see your build, dont have Mids at work. But...)

I'd maybe consider dropping power pool Manouvers for Mind Link if you can get it permanent. It offers much more Defence, free extra To Hit and Psi resistance, and costs 1/4 of the end of the Leadership toggle if you fire it every 90 seconds.

It does require you to click though instead of being fire and forget, and you may need Manouvers for Tactics.

For the record, I'd openly welcome anyone who brought double Manouvers to my team, even if they didn't have Mind Link.

I don't think you would be kicked but I would certainly wonder why it was skipped.

From the soloing standpoint, I don't care what people do with their builds. If I was building a team, then I do care.

There was another post about VEATs skipping leadership too. I note that someone skipped those and mind link. Those players I put at the bottom of the list of who I recruit.

Mind Link isn't asked for because there are some rude players who throw a fit if you ask. Just like the "SB plz!" people can get rude remarks if they ask too much (even when they have been boosted 100% of the time).
I know if someone asks me to SB them when they are already buffed they certainly get a response.

Good players don't need to be prodded or told what to do. If you didn't take Mind Link, I know already because I clicked info on your character. Just like if you did take ML and not use/share it.

Sometimes I send a tell asking why a player skipped something. I get all sorts of responses from "I had no idea! TY for help." to profanity laced replys just for asking a simple question. These days I look at vet badges and anyone over 12 months is "veteran" enough to know better.

As also pointed out, the game itself is really easy and generally speaking the only thing that can slow a team down is team griefing power use. (like D-shift) With the levels of IO set bonuses many characters can solo at x8 and don't need a team at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mordeth Much like with my Bane, i got to poking my Widow and after tweaking her build i noticed i don't really need Mind Link, as found my defenses to be capped (melee, ranged, aoe) without it, thus rendering it kinda useless. Now, i'm fully aware how awesome the power is, but the fact is i don't need it and would like to pick up another power instead of it, something that'd fit the concept of Night Widow better, something i'd get more mileage out of, if you will. But my dilemma is that how.. upset would potential teammates be, should i join a team (i usually form my own teams, but there are times someone manages to send me an invite before i can form anything) and not have the power? Should i be expecting a /kick (extreme cases) or would anyone even notice that i lacked the power?

I didn't read much of the replies so forgive me if I cover something already mentioned.

Mind link is a cornerstone power IMO for the widows that benefits everyone in your party. I took it on my high end NW because it + TT:M, both defense uniques (the pvp one is mega pricy, but outlining this just for example purposes) and mask presence (surpressed) puts me at cap for everything. This eliminates having to take weave, leadership's maneuvers, CJing etc or having to specifically slot set bonuses to make up ground for a lacking defensive build.

I have considered at one point doing just what you proposed and skipping out on it ML as well, as it is -completely- doable on a arachnos NW/fort. However, it then leaves me having to plug the holes with other pools or set bonuses, which is what I try to avoid personally if possible.

I don't think you will be kicked from teams for not having it, but I have found that some folks think that the team buffs are reasoning behind having them in groups (esp some of the ones that run a ton of SFs). There's even been a post or two here on th e boards from folks griping about VEATs skipping out on the leadership toggles and ML. I say play your toon however you want! but know there are some out there that might scrutinize you for skipping ML.

If you can make it work without ML and enjoy the toon then have at it, but I think the benefits outweigh the cons with ML. Slotted it is almost 16% defense for you and your whole team + a to-hit bonus... a big deal in some circles.

Just to point out: on your listed build above if you drop both leadership:maneuvers and weave and plug in ML with 3 membranes (or however you go about frankenslotting for def/rech) you will be just shy of capped on all defenses (52.5, 44.5, 43.9) -without- mask presence toggled. So in this example ML by itself replaces 2 pool powers AND grants you and your team +7.8% tohit! It will be 10 seconds from perma, but since you will still have 2 free power slots take 3 slotted hasten and it now recharges in 77 seconds (or, slot in a bit more global haste and skip hasten if you want). Yesyou could do without it, but since by itself it can replace 2 other defensive powers I think it lends a little more flexibility to your build. Just my opinion of course =)

On a Widow, it's so easy to perma (I can't remember eaxctly, but at most you only need a few set bonuses even without Hasten. Either way, with it slotted to the ED cap with recharge*, you certainly don't need anything like LotGs or Purples) that I can't see any reason not to take it. Even if all you do it put it on auto and use it to buff your defense, it's a fantastic power and the ally buffing aspect is just gravy.

I can't check your build atm (I'm at work), but reading the other replies am I right in thinking you've taken Weave? If so, drop it straight away and take ML. It's better in every way. I really cannot see why anyone would take Weave on a Widow. The two prequisites aren't of any significant use to you (Tough alone doesn't help much - you need some SL res elsewahere for it to really come into it's own), and you've got far better powers to boost your defense.

On a Fort it's more debatable, as perma-ing it is much tougher, but even then, it's still a useful tool.

* The best slotting is probably 3 membrane Hami-Os as Person34 said, but the cheap option is to slot it with 2 lvl 50 Def/Rech IOs from whatever sets, 1 lvl 50 Def IO and a lvl 50 Rech IO from a THBuff set (one of them has a pure rech IO, I forget which exactly). This will get both def and rech pretty close to the ED softcap for 4 slots and not much inf.

Many good points listed here, so i suppose it might be worth it if i went with the perma Mind Link approach, even if it cost me bundles more inf and trouble.

But i'd also need to tinker with the build, which i haven't been able to do, not to my satisfaction anyways, as no matter how i spin it, i always end up dry on slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhroX I can't check your build atm (I'm at work), but reading the other replies am I right in thinking you've taken Weave?

Yes, took Weave due to it being a cheap way to get decent amount of +defense, thus achieving the soft cap without the use of high end io's.

That said, anyone got a decent build they'd like to share, something that achieved perma Mind Link/capped defenses without the use of Weave/Hasten/etc powers or purple sets?

With your build all you need to do is add 3 LotG +recharge to make ML perma (taking into account cast time). Six slot Mind Link with Def/Recharge IOs an Adjusted Targeting recharge IO, and one of your LotG +recharge IOs and you're there. Now drop the whole Fighting Pool.
Three LotG +recharge aren't that expensive, put in some bids and just be patient.

Membrane's are also nice for Mind Link

haven't checked the market in a while, but they were $100M when I got them.

Membranes are fairly expensive since they are highly usefull for shield users as well as widows, since they can be slotted in active defense to buff up the def debuff resistance, which normally cannot be buffed any other way.

Even after the market merge in GR I wouldn't expect the prices to drop much - blueside its tough to get them for less than about 50 million. At best they are only going to save you 1 slot over the alternate choice, frankenslotting def/recharge IO's and the adjusted targetting recharge IO - which are going to cost you a million or so per IO at worst and are likely to be really cheap.

Don't pay any attention to the order of the powers (things are strange because I started with a staminaless build), but here's an OLD build that I since updated to include Shatter Armor by dropping Lunge and Assault. The only IO I don't have is the Gladiator Armor +3def.

And you want mind link, because of debuffs, team buffs, to-hit, etc. Not to mention that it doesn't crash like Elude does, and is up all the time unlike Elude.

Also taking Mindlink means you don't have to waste a power on things like kick.

And I am resistance capped to Psi, because I run AE against psi dmg.

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