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THIS is the part that bugs me.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
As stated, I can SOLO at the highest difficulty the game offers.
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When the team's difficulty is lower than my solo difficulty, there's no reason for me to be on the team except that I want a reward I can't get solo. Which turns teaming into grinding for rewards. I hate grinding, so if the team isn't going to give me fun, I'm going to make my own.
If people have a problem with that, they can either drop out of their "must babysit everyone" mentality and accept that I'm getting them more xp, inf, and drops, drop out of their "must follow the tank" mentality and run off on their own or come with me, turn up the difficulty so I have a reason to stay with them (whether it be survival or efficiency), or kick me. Getting butthurt because I'm doing what they are UNWILLING to do (not unable. If seven people together can't handle what I can handle solo I won't be on that team for long) accomplishes nothing.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Ah, but does that mean the mission will be completed quicker then if you had 7 allies?|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
As stated, I can SOLO at the highest difficulty the game offers.
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What about the people who die trying to tag along with you, and please no "not my problem".
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Why would it be his problem?
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Originally Posted by Peacemoon
What about the people who die trying to tag along with you, and please no "not my problem".
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I inform the team that I am suicidally insane and anyone who follows me does so at their own risk. Sure, I'll try to keep them from dying, if they're suicidally insane like me but not as survivable, because I encourage suicidal insanity in all its forms, but if they die anyway and complain about it, then it's not my problem.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
What about the people who die trying to tag along with you, and please no "not my problem".
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If they die and say "let's try that again," they can have all my awakens.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Doesn't this happen every time there's a major crisis that require super heroes to team up?
How do they handle it in the comic books?
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A man, definitely. And I agree wholeheartedly.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
A man (woman?) after my own heart, then
 Personally, I've always held the above as my ultimate ideal. Far and above teamwork and strategy, I prefer it when ever member of a team can look after himself to at least some degree if left alone and doesn't need to be babysat. If the team splits up, many people die or someone gets separated, I want to know they can hold out and possibly even win. I want to know I can rely on my team-mates to not die if I screw up, and I want them to be able to rely on me to take care of myself when they can't be everywhere. |
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Originally Posted by ketch
I'm definitely on the other end of the spectrum. I prefer a whole that is great than the parts, but that's probably why I have never dabbled in scrappers or brutes.
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Sam pretty much hits the nail on the head here. There's nothing wrong with a little initiative, as long as the team isn't being put at risk.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
But again - it's not a question of rushing. I only consider it rushing if it's done at the expense of safety or performance, or if people are trying to do something else but are interrupted, such as exploring corners or chatting. But I simply will not stand for empty waiting when people are just standing in place and fidgeting for no reason other than because no-one has any initiative. That's not rushing in these cases.
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Controlling or overly cautious team leaders who want every player to wait around until everything is precisely the way the leader thinks it should be before doing anything, are just as bad as the player who runs off, gets in over their head, and causes a teamwipe.
There are few things more frustrating to me than standing around in a mission twiddling my thumbs waiting for everyone to get their butts in gear. It doesn't matter what kind of AT or powersets I'm playing; if we're standing around for more than about 5 seconds, I'm going to take the initiative and get the ball rolling.
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Will the mission be completed more quickly with allies? Well that depends. If they keep dying and taking trips to the hospital, then no.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Ah, but does that mean the mission will be completed quicker then if you had 7 allies?
What about the people who die trying to tag along with you, and please no "not my problem". |
What about the people that die trying to tag along with me? Hopefully it's a learning experience for them. "Hmmm," they ask themselves, "why do I die so easily against foes that he can defeat?" Perhaps then they'll look at my IO set bonuses and tactics and learn about Mids and understand the difference between solo and team-centric archetypes.
Or perhaps they stay with the team as the huge spawn of arachnos I attempt to solo turns me into paste and *I'M* the one wasting everyone else's time with a trip to the hospital. At which point I *will* learn from the situation and in the future only tackle that which I have at least a 50/50 chance of survival against.
It so happens that I have about a 10% failure rate against +4/x8 arachnos when bosses are turned on. Psi and very high accuracy assassin strikes hurt like hell against SR.
EDIT: So.. yea... people dying around me? Not my problem. That usually means they took on more than they could chew (their fault) or the tank/defender/controller are failing at their job (their fault.) Does that mean I ignore my teammates health? Nope. Does that mean I won't help take out nasties that are harming my teammates? Nope.
But this doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time babysitting every team I'm on. That's a support character's job.
Be well, people of CoH.
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No, it isn't. A support character's job is to SUPPORT the team. The team should do better with you, but if they can't do without you, (barring something like a +4 AV) it's time to find a better team.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
But this doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time babysitting every team I'm on. That's a support character's job.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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This is my biggest pet peeve, especially when I'm tanking. I don't want to rush in if the rest of the team isn't ready, but I find myself hesistating for too long because nobody else seems ready.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Sam pretty much hits the nail on the head here. There's nothing wrong with a little initiative, as long as the team isn't being put at risk.
Controlling or overly cautious team leaders who want every player to wait around until everything is precisely the way the leader thinks it should be before doing anything, are just as bad as the player who runs off, gets in over their head, and causes a teamwipe. There are few things more frustrating to me than standing around in a mission twiddling my thumbs waiting for everyone to get their butts in gear. It doesn't matter what kind of AT or powersets I'm playing; if we're standing around for more than about 5 seconds, I'm going to take the initiative and get the ball rolling. |
Heh, the disconnect rises in the thread. Achiever types should only team with other Achiever types. My "So Superman should do his own thing when teamed with 'lesser" heroes?" argument would only get laughter from them. 
Dec out.
The more I think about this, the more I remember something that pisses me off: stealthing missions. It's not the practice of stealthing itself that bothers me, it's the fact that when I get on a TF with a leader intent on stealthing every mission, I end up spending 90% of my time waiting to be teleported to the boss, fighting for 15 seconds, and then spending another 15 minutes waiting for the designated stealther to stealth some more.
And it's not like we're doing anything while we wait. Not even chat. It feels like people are off washing the dishes or ironing the cat or extinguishing the baby or something. I, myself, just swivel my chair and watch TV until the stealther wakes me up when he's ready to teleport. And I do not pay a subscription to an online game to be bored and watching uninteresting TV while I sit on my hands. This is BAD GAMING, people!
What I'll usually do is go "Screw it! While he's looking for the boss, let's all the rest of us kill stuff to pass the time!" Sometimes the team is game, but most of the time they're out of the house buying milk and cookies while they wait, so nothing happens. I mean, 8-1 people usually CAN handle 8-man spawns, and given how slow some stealthers are, we can usually go through an entire floor of an office complex by the time the stealther is done.
But you know what the most fun is? When there's no good place to teleport to, so the Stealther botches the teleport, we team-wipe and have to go back to the hospital and wait for him to stealth again. Ugh... You know, in that time, we could have gone through 3/4 of the way by force anyway, and we'd have gotten a lot more experience, inf and drops AND had more fun that we would have if we'd just picked our noses with our index fingers the entire time.
I don't mind slowing down and waiting if there's a legitimate reason for it, but when 4 out of 6 missions consist entirely of me sitting on my hands, then what's the point? What have I accomplished in that TF? Why did I do it in the first place? For the badge? I have it already. For the Merits? Don't care. For the drops? I can get those on my own. If I do a TF, it's because I want to have fun, and waiting for 15 minutes at a time IS NOT FUN.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Common practice on stealth TF missions for me (although it's usually a response "OK, tp us when you get there. We'll be mopping up here until you're ready."). Only once or twice have I not had at least a couple of people game for a little easy xp like that.
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Samuel_Tow has my method, too: What I'll usually do is go "Screw it! While he's looking for the boss, let's all the rest of us kill stuff to pass the time!" |
Dec out.
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I stealth a lot of SFs. Pretty much everyone I can. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The ... FUN.
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I try to be sensitive the fun of the ppl at the door. I let them know that they're free to do as they please in the front. In the 1st Silver Mantis, it's nice if the non-stealther can clear a path for the captured artists.
There are only a few of them where a non-stealther can screw really things up. More often than not, the non-stealther is either able to help significantly or is not even near where the action is. But that's because I only have the vet recall so I don't use any strategies that require recall.
Practice can help a stealther get the job done in less time than 15 minutes. If the mish isn't done much faster by stealthing, then why bother stealthing?
A crew of practiced SF runners, especially ones who have teamed before, is a blast. By trying to cut times, people invent interesting, imho, techniques of aggro management by use of things like the environment, AI manipulation, etc.
Anyway, I find stealthing to be a lot of fun.
I don't see any reason why the non-stealthers on a team should be relegated to thumbsitting. People shouldn't ask that of their teams. I understand asking non-stealthers not to tag along, but there's no reason [usually] that they cant knock some heads.
Something a lot of people that have posted have forgotten.
Just because you have the star does NOT make you a leader. Sorry but there is no reason to have to do things your way.
I'll listen to other players, but that doesn't mean I have to do what they say.
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It is your problem. Youre following along with someone who's IOd and extremely capable of taking care of themselves. You are responsible for your own safety just as much as youre responsible for the teams safety.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Ah, but does that mean the mission will be completed quicker then if you had 7 allies?
What about the people who die trying to tag along with you, and please no "not my problem". |
If you jump on a team and expect them to baby sit you because you cant handle the pace the top tier players are setting on the team, then you either need to learn to hang back, or learn to play better. You dragging down everyone else is just as detrimental to a team and team building as overly aggressive people attempting to bite off more than they can chew.
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It may not make someone a leader, but it does make them the leader.|
Havoc_X is mistaken: Something a lot of people that have posted have forgotten. Just because you have the star does NOT make you a leader. |
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Sorry but there is no reason to have to do things your way. I'll listen to other players, but that doesn't mean I have to do what they say. |
Dec out.
Since I'm bored, I'll weigh in.
I suppose the 'soloer' might take a new POV: What if these were HIS FRIENDS he was playing with? If he was playing with friends, and they didn't like him doing what he was doing, would he just disregard them, or would he choose to delay that particular form of gratification (pause) until another time, perhaps when he was soloing?
In the end (pause) the team leader gets to kick people if he wants. I think of that as somewhat extreme, but it is his right if he wants, just as it is the right of others to quit if they don't like the leader's policies. Golden Rule also helps. And I'm out.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Only in a VERY narrow way of looking at it. |
Originally Posted by Decorum
It may not make someone a leader, but it does make them the leader.
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| No whining if you get kicked, then. |
Unlike a lot of forumites that whine if they don't get their way, or someone has the audacity to disagree.
If some people don't like folks who play at a breakneck speed and do their own thing in missions then it will only get worse for them blueside when Brutes appear.
Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves.
-ShadowsBetween
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In a "that's how the game mechanics work" way. It may not give them any leadership skills, but ultimately they get to choose who is and who is not on the team.|
Havoc_X is resistant: Only in a VERY narrow way of looking at it. |
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I don't whine. I also don't team alot outside my group of friends, I can't stand the childish attitudes. Unlike a lot of forumites that whine if they don't get their way, or someone has the audacity to disagree. |
Dec out.
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Ha! Good point. I think they'll probably get a little more slack due to their AT's "requirements". |
Blunt_Trauma sees it coming: If some people don't like folks who play at a breakneck speed and do their own thing in missions then it will only get worse for them blueside when Brutes appear. |
Dec out.
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not enough lols for that thought|
Originally Posted by Blunt_Trauma
If some people don't like folks who play at a breakneck speed and do their own thing in missions then it will only get worse for them blueside when Brutes appear.
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My experience strongly suggests that brutelock out does scrapperlock when it comes for the need to never slow down and never stop.
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I find this amusing. I am arguing for the princple of *teamwork* when on a team, and the fact that arrogant and self loving players who think they are better then the rest of the team put together really annoys me, especially when they could channel that energy in such a more positive way.|
Originally Posted by Civility
It is your problem. Youre following along with someone who's IOd and extremely capable of taking care of themselves. You are responsible for your own safety just as much as youre responsible for the teams safety.
If you jump on a team and expect them to baby sit you because you cant handle the pace the top tier players are setting on the team, then you either need to learn to hang back, or learn to play better. You dragging down everyone else is just as detrimental to a team and team building as overly aggressive people attempting to bite off more than they can chew. |
If I decide to join a team with Peacemoon atleast I have the common decency to play as a team member. And no, its not because I am a "support character" because frankly I can "support" myself through a x8 mission faster then most wannabe IO'd scrappers, stalkers or brutes who have read the latest guide here on the forum. No I play as a team member because I know as an intelligent player, the team has the potential to be much greater then the individual. I know together I can compensate the weaker players on the team and help them enjoy the ride just as much as I will; to make the experience faster & better for everyone.
Of course there are exceptions to this as there are with everything. But if you enter a team with the mindset that you are going to run off and do your own thing irregardless as to the consequences, then you are a bad player and a bad team member.
Be well, people of CoH.