Blizzard to remove the veil of anonymity


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I'm not looking at it as a matter of security though, simply one of accountability. Honestly, if someone is determined and/or sociopathic enough to get at your real world information then exchanging a forum avatar for a real name isn't going to deter them a great deal in the long run, I feel.


 

Posted

Doesn't have to be sociopathic.

There's an entire multimillion dollar industry dedicated to harvesting info on MMO players to either try and sell them stuff or hack their accounts.

They are as tenacious as any sociopath and have a LOT of resources behind their efforts.

And even if they don't get you, anyone with your name they can find an e-mail for is going to get flooded with advertisements that are as likely to be viruses in disguise.

I can see far too many negatives in using real names to justify an act designed to just cull a few forum trolls.


-np


I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.

Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
I'm not looking at it as a matter of security though, simply one of accountability. Honestly, if someone is determined and/or sociopathic enough to get at your real world information then exchanging a forum avatar for a real name isn't going to deter them a great deal in the long run, I feel.

Well how exactly is people knowing your real name on a board making you any more accountable?



Anyone in a position of power (like a mod) can extract that info anyway. All it gives anyone else is your name, sex and possible information on your ethnicity.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
Well how exactly is people knowing your real name on a board making you any more accountable?
Did anyone actually read the first line of my first post in this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Testosterone-laden Stud Muddin
Anyway, as for the announcement itself I'm in full support of it - even though I can definitely see why the use of a global username would be preferable to real name.
If the real name had been replaced with a username my stance would be no different, I just wouldn't be having some very odd strawman thrown at me in the process.

Also np, that's a cute way of avoiding the 'determined' part of my post without ever actually addressing anything.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
np? Yes, no problem.

I've just done a search for myself and several other people I know, with a significant number of people sharing that name appearing on the search. I cannot see how someone's life or account is going to be 'stolen' unless they've been reckless with their private details.
I work somewhere were our phone numbers and addresses and salaries and job titles and believe it or not our user ids for work are public information.

So while it may be no problem for you, it would be unacceptable for me.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Except that goldsellers/account thieves aren't so much 'determined' to steal your info specifically, as they're just omnipresent.

Having real names to start with, knowing you play an MMO, probably your gender, ethnicity, and that you're active in one forum and as such are probably active on the internet a fair amount, that makes their job that much easier.

And I reiterate the increased general mail spam this will generate.

A global handle instead of a real name will accomplish everything intended without opening up that extra amount of security issues.



-np


I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.

Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
I work somewhere were our phone numbers and addresses and salaries and job titles and believe it or not our user ids for work are public information.

So while it may be no problem for you, it would be unacceptable for me.
Yet how this would result in the loss of account and identity? I notice people don't seem to be addressing the points I've raised here. Telling me it would happen is not the same as telling me how it would happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate View Post

And I reiterate the increased general mail spam this will generate.
The mail spam has been increasing regardless of names being attached to forums. Plus, you know, spam filters.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate View Post

And even if they don't get you, anyone with your name they can find an e-mail for is going to get flooded with advertisements that are as likely to be viruses in disguise.
This was actually a point I was going to make. Some of the advocates are claiming victory in the thread because some of the information people dug up about one of the mods is wrong. In my mind, this just makes it worse - people who have *NOTHING* to do with the game could be harassed. Unstable people are unstable - if they were logical and rational, they wouldn't be making threats over a video game. And just because *you* (generic you) have a safely unfindable name doesn't mean other people do. As I said, I go out of my way to keep a low profile online, and my *REAL IDENTITY* showed up at the top of the list when I searched based on my own name. And I've met players in WoW and CoH who I'd rather didn't know what my other *characters* were named, let alone my real name.

If Blizzard wants to clean up their forms, RealID is a load of BS. They already have the power to do so. All they have to do is change it so that each CD key can only have one forum ID. And then keep track (internally) of which keys come from a linked Battle.net account. If the Forum ID on a given CD key is being a jerk, ban it. If a Battle.net account keeps getting keys banned, drop a blanket ban on the entire account. Yes, there will be people that keep getting new CD keys just to make fake accounts and troll. But you know what? Real ID won't prevent that, either. Yes, you can run around trying to ban phony sounding names like Facebook does. And like Facebook, you'll end up pissing off real customers who have odd names. And you'll still have "Harry Trotter" and "Ima Pigg" trolling in the forums. RealID won't clean up the WoW forums. At best, it'll keep shy or nervous people out. At worst, it'll expose sensitive information to a group that's already clearly quite crazy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Is putting real names public going to make their average user MORE secure, or LESS?
Neither, really. In the long run, statistically, you'll still likely be orders of magnitude more likely to get hit by a drunk driver than to have someone mess with you because your real name was attached to a post on a WoW forum. Giving your credit card to a waiter will remain a bigger risk of identity theft.

I'm not going to go through this post-by-post because there's no point. People are just being hysterical. As others have noted millions of people have put their real names on their Facebook pages without incurring DOOOOOOOOOOM. The real truth is no one cares enough about you, whoever you are, for your name being revealed on the internet to matter.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

I pointed out that it's astonishingly easy to bluff your way through situations like calling a bank teller or customer service rep to access an account, if you seem to have a ton of the account holder's personal info.

For a specific example, former governer Sarah Palin's personal e-mail account was hacked this way, the hackers just scrounged up enough 'personal info', via just normal Googling around, to bluff their way past Customer Service.

Do people need to secure their info better, in general? Yes.

However, that job isn't being made any easier by Blizzard forcibly requiring real names.

The contention is that Blizzard is making things worse.

Even the security aspect aside, folks should be able to just say they don't want their real names exposed, if nothing else for personal privacy.

Global Handles would accomplish the anti-trolling effects without compromising the other stuff.



-np


I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.

Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
The real truth is no one cares enough about you, whoever you are, for your name being revealed on the internet to matter.
Except the goldselling/account hacking industry.


-np


I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.

Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered

 

Posted

The forum thread has now cracked 1100 pages.

Most of the posts are negative.

Also, while the original reason given was to 'take away the pro-troll environment', this has been exposed as a smokescreen.

The real reason? Apparently Vivendi has inked a deal with Facebook to "cross-pollinate" Battle.net with FB, supposedly to attract new subscribers by exposing player accomplishments and armory drops.

So this is essentially a money grab. Players have been reduced to marketing data, to be sold to whoever wants to pay.

I can't live with that, so I cancelled my WoW account this morning. Cata may as well be vaporware for me unless they rethink this decision.

Hey everyone... did you miss me?



"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."

 

Posted

Some of us just don't like our real names. I could care less if you know my real name is Matthew Merlo or that I live in Michigan. I just like my screen name more... it's kinda like a call sign in various militaries... Everyone know you're Sargent Butters, they'll still call you by your call sign because it is generally more representative of you and/or your group than your regular name and it's easier to communicate to or about the specific person.

It's especially helpful in large groups where multiple people share the same name... I hated HS classes when someone would say "Matt" because 3-5 guys would turn and look in near every class.

Seem to me the entire "lifting of the veil" is more harmful to the emerssiveness of WoW especially since it is known that famous people and business execs play the game. You likely create a problem in some area where some people just stop playing because they don't want to be hounded and some guild/groups might fall apart when the dynamic they once had falls apart because it's suddenly revealed that the guild leader is some nobody who works for a low level ****** in the group that noone really likes bu puts up with all the while some famous person in the group suddenly gets bombarded with PMs and such and is listened to more than the guild leader.

Sounds unlikely but with the number of people in WoW and it's known draw of people I am pretty sure things like that will happen...and it will likely cost blizzard a number of those people who are not addicted.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate View Post
For a specific example, former governer Sarah Palin's personal e-mail account was hacked this way, the hackers just scrounged up enough 'personal info', via just normal Googling around, to bluff their way past Customer Service.
Hacking the e-mail account of a high profile individual is a far cry from seeing the name of some random forum goer.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Yet how this would result in the loss of account and identity? I notice people don't seem to be addressing the points I've raised here. Telling me it would happen is not the same as telling me how it would happen.



The mail spam has been increasing regardless of names being attached to forums. Plus, you know, spam filters.
Do you lock your doors at home? Why? A determined thief will get in any way.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
Do you lock your doors at home? Why? A determined thief will get in any way.
Someone breaking into my home and discovering my real name are not the same thing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Someone breaking into my home and discovering my real name are not the same thing.
Identity theft is a crime. Having your name readily available removes one hurdle for it. So like locking your door at home to deter less determined criminals making your name less available will deter less determined criminals.

You seem unconcerned about people's names being public so I wonder why your forum name isn't your real name?


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

No, but a real name is a first step in finding out other stuff about you.

A Global Handle would accomplish the anti-troll efforts without compromising this.

Also, spotted this gem on their boards:

"The US Department of Justice: Office on Violence Against Women advise women to choose gender neutral forum handles and never post their real names on message boards in order to protect themselves from being targeted by cyber-stalkers.

Maybe they know something Blizzard does not? "




-np


I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.

Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
Identity theft is a crime. Having your name readily available removes one hurdle for it. So like locking your door at home to deter less determined criminals making your name less available will deter less determined criminals.
Except in this case identity theft would only happen if you had posted intimate details in places that they could be obtained from. The ruckus people are making is over names being displayed - that's it. Nobody has yet to explain to me how somehing like that can bloat into fullscale identity theft without relying on extreme hyperbole.

Breaking into someone's home only requires you be at their door.

Quote:
You seem unconcerned about people's names being public so I wonder why your forum name isn't your real name?
Because I'm known online by my handle rather than Ryan Hughes? This was a fantastic attempt at being clever, but I said in my first post here that handles are preferable to real names. Why do so many people skip over that?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate View Post
Also, spotted this gem on their boards:

"The US Department of Justice: Office on Violence Against Women advise women to choose gender neutral forum handles and never post their real names on message boards in order to protect themselves from being targeted by cyber-stalkers.

Maybe they know something Blizzard does not? "
Sounds like the governments solution to the immigration issue. Posting Warnings and doing nothing.


My Blogs on TGWTG.com
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Mission Arc: #352860 - RJ The Road Dog: Big Trouble in Little Tokyo

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Excuse for me asking someone to elaborate on an (apparently) life-wrecking incident which they blamed on two words. If they can destroy your credit rating like that it sounds like something a hell of lot bigger was involved, especially when you refer to them as 'an employee'. Of who? Yours? The same company? Someone on the other side of the world who only gained your name through a forum post?

Context is a big thing if we're going to scaremonger.
Well, for some perspective, most people are paranoid in the wrong areas. Online privacy concerns are good, but the most prevalent identity thefts techniques begin offline (and predate the use of the term "identity theft"). Online info just facilitates things.

1) Have you ever dined at a restaurant where the bill is brought to your table? You give them your card and they take it to the register, swipe it, and bring it back? Anytime that card leaves your line of sight, you're risking what used to be one of the most common starting points for ID theft.

There are these tiny devices... easily smaller than an IPhone (a decade ago, the place I worked at helped law enforcement deconstruct 200 of them disguised as pagers. ) Waitstaff could run your card through it and swipe the data, just like a legit charge. In one night, they'd gather several hundred, upload them to an "exchange site."

A thief would get caught quickly using the accounts they nabbed themselves, so they're traded around the world via such discrete networks. The thief might never even USE a fake card for anything- he's just getting paid for the ones he gathers.

From there, you've got enough for basic false charges... without the end-user sharing anything online. but take those names (and relative locations, based on where the charges originated) and put it through several bots... can we find (and test) any more publicly-identifiable information?

Maybe get your home address or telephone? Switchboard.com's a gold mine fort that. Ok, there are three with your name variation in town? What's the harm in brute-force checking for a match? Let it trickle out over a few different sites over a few days, just to reduce suspicion.

Where being a little reckless starts kicking in: Maybe they also scan your blog or facebook posts, getting lists of info you may have used in security questions for various sites "What high school did you graduate from? What's your favorite cat's name?" etc. Maybe they do a credit check and realize that you're a REALLY good candidate for a little investment, so they pay the online services that'll get you more details...

2) Another one that's (hopefully) dying off: all those "pre-approved" credit card solicitations that we used to see. Sure, some people are careless and throw them out without properly disposing of them, but more frequently someone gets to them before you even get em out of your mailbox. (With so many dual-income households out there, a fraudster can reasonably expect most homes without cars in the driveway to be empty during business hours, allowing them to reasonably go to the front door, check the mail & take what they want without risk of being confronted. Wear something vaguely akin to a utility worker's outfit for added protection.

From there, same as before... the thieves could probably get enough info to open one of those accounts (and even get a change-of-address going) in the few dozen they manage to gather in a week, but their chances of success go up when they can get your REAL personal info from a google search.

3) My company outsourced several HR related tasks to a management firm. Said firm was in an office complex that outsourced cleaning staff duties to somewhere else. Cleaning is done at night, when everyone's gone. That cleaning company found vetting workers expensive, so they didn't.... and filing cabinet locks can be easily compromised over time. When that HR agency noticed several papers out of place and investigated, guess what they found?

Yep.

One cleaning guy didn't show up the day after this broke on the news... to my knowledge, they never caugt him. Doesn't really matter, though. Connect that to the kind of data-sharing network from #1 and the genie was already out of the bottle.

They had no clue if anything had been DONE, but they still contacted all their clients (tens of thousands of employees) and their insurer got us all a free year of full-scale credit monitoring, just to be safe.

Again, nothing that the end user (the employees) could have done differently, and if that person DID exchange our identities, they'd already have everything they needed for a solid case of ID theft.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
I was afraid that I might be tempted back to WoW by Cataclysm.

But if Blizzard does this, they effectively have closed their official forum down. And for me, forums are an important aspect of the game community and information base. Even awful forums, and WoW's forums were never very good, contain valuable information.

I learned to hate their PvE endgame and progression raiding anyways; it was an exercise in ramping up the frustration until you could tolerate it no more. I am relieved to have the temptation removied.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

Which handily supports my point: namely that seeing someone's random name on a forum is not going to destroy lives or lead to the loss of identity, unless you've already compromised your security through other means. I simply do not understand the level of scaremongering that goes on, I simply don't.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post

You seem unconcerned about people's names being public so I wonder why your forum name isn't your real name?
Batter up! I sure wish in todays society people would do what they ask others to do first...Like a politician asking for people to reduce their carbon footprint...which they do from some MASSIVE manison(looking at u Al)!!

Also remember an alias protects you and the ones who live with you!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Which handily supports my point: namely that seeing someone's random name on a forum is not going to destroy lives or lead to the loss of identity, unless you've already compromised your security through other means. I simply do not understand the level of scaremongering that goes on, I simply don't.
Well possibly because what you call scaremongering is what some people simply consider reasonable caution.

Your posts make me think you think I am sitting here cowering in fear which couldn't be further from the truth.

The reality is there is no reason for Blizzard or any company to give out that information to anyone who wants to get it. They have it if they need it for dealing with customers but that does not mean the customers should be given all the other customers' information that they wish to keep private.

Just because there won't be a rash of murders because of it does not mean they should do it. It is unnecessary and very inconsiderate of all their customers who do not want it.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.