Why is it that Full Auto does less damage than Rain of Arrows?


Eva Destruction

 

Posted

> They both have the same damage type, lethal.
> They both same recharge, 60 seconds.

However...

> Rain of Arrows is Location AoE, which is much more versatile and safer to use than Full Auto, which roots you for the entire duration.
> Rain of Arrows has a higher base accuracy than Full Auto, by roughly 19%.
> Rain of Arrows has longer range than Full Auto, by 10ft.
> Full Auto has a 20 degree cone, which makes it harder to hit an entire group.
> Full Auto costs about 5 endurance less, which is the only thing that's better compared to Rain of Arrows.

As a whole, these little differences add up to a lot. If anything, Full Auto should deal MORE damage than Rain of Arrows, not just equal to.


 

Posted

Well, FA has a 10% chance for an extra 62.56 damage (unenhanced, Blaster numbers) which alone puts it above RoA's base damage... but that extra spike of damage is also non-resistable.
(Also: that extra damage is checked against each target individually, so you've got a fair chance to hit at least one opponent with it each cast)

Edit: Also also, Corruptor RoA can't Scourge, while Corruptor FA can.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

another thing thing to consider is that each set is balanced against itself, not against other sets direct powers.

Assault Rifle gets 5 very powerful mob attacks: Buckshot, M30 Grenade, Flamethrower, Ignite, and Full Auto.

Archery is primarily single target damage, with only 3 AOE's to it's credit: Explosive Arrow, Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows.

Granted, M30 Grenade and Explosive Arrow do pretty much the same thing... but Assault Rifle gets the Grenade at 6, while Archery gets Explosive Arrow at 12... and come on... lets be honest, at 12 you are looking at a sub-travel power...

And Beanbag and Stunning Arrow do pretty much the same thing. But, Assault Rifle gets Beanbag at level 8, while Archery does not get that stun until level 26.

Assault Rifle also gets an additional attack, as the level 8 slot that's an aim on everything but Dual Pistols, is the aforementioned stun, Beanbag.

So... Assault Rifle. Superior overall mob damage and more attacks are why it's nuke has lower damage than Archery.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Assault Rifle gets 5 very powerful mob attacks: Buckshot, M30 Grenade, Flamethrower, Ignite, and Full Auto.
I have to laugh moderately hard at calling the grenade "very powerful".

And while I personally like Ignite, it is highly situational and only qualifies as "very powerful" if you've got the foe immobilized or held.

I agree with your basic point that sets are balanced against themselves.
I still think Full Auto is underpowered.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
bag[/I]
Assault Rifle also gets an additional attack, as the level 8 slot that's an aim on everything but Dual Pistols, is the aforementioned stun, Beanbag.
Archery.
Good point, I forgot to mention that Archery gets Aim...which effectively boosts the damage of Rain of Arrows as well as its accuracy. More reason to buff FA!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
I have to laugh moderately hard at calling the grenade "very powerful".

And while I personally like Ignite, it is highly situational and only qualifies as "very powerful" if you've got the foe immobilized or held.

I agree with your basic point that sets are balanced against themselves.
I still think Full Auto is underpowered.
actually... I sorta added grenade in after putting "4" "attacks" and went... wait a second... there's another AOE!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Edit: Also also, Corruptor RoA can't Scourge, while Corruptor FA can.
corruptor RoA can scourge, but its hard to notice sometimes because its only 3 ticks of dmg compared to ARs 30some ticks


 

Posted

Another thing to remember is that RoA's damage doesn't actually hit until a few seconds after you target the power, so unless you're using it on a mob that's standing still (i.e mezzed or not aggroed yet) you may well hit nothing at all.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Well, FA has a 10% chance for an extra 62.56 damage (unenhanced, Blaster numbers) which alone puts it above RoA's base damage
Except that it doesn't.

RoA's base damage is 3 ticks for 75.07 damage (level 50 Blaster) for 225.21 damage. FA's base damage is 17 ticks of 10.14 damage (level 50 Blaster) with a 10% chance for 62.56 damage, for a total of 178.63 damage. Unless you're saying that, when it procs, FA does more damage than RoA, you're simply wrong.

Something else that rarely gets mentioned that probably should is that FA also has a target cap of only 10 targets, unlike RoA's 16. Even if you did get an entire group in the middle of your FA, you're only going to hit 10 of them (and, remember, RoA operates by making 3 different attacks against all targets in range so it's possible for it to hit more than 16 targets if one tick misses or if it kills a target early).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by macskull View Post
Another thing to remember is that RoA's damage doesn't actually hit until a few seconds after you target the power, so unless you're using it on a mob that's standing still (i.e mezzed or not aggroed yet) you may well hit nothing at all.
Yup, definitely agree with this. Also, I find it easier in most instances to use a 'click' cone attack rather than AoE placed with reticle.
Use of them changes with situaion but in general BU, Grenade -Full Auto will often wipe a group without them getting up (KB and extra defiance for opening with grenade). For Arrows you have to start with Rain or risk the mob running out of the AoE, and then follow with a second attack (but not knock them out of the effect so using Explosive arrow is situational.)


--------------
"Chew Electric Death, Snarling Cur!"

 

Posted

Don't forget Full Auto has the longest animation of any power in the game. IMO, Assault Rifle is at least a bit subpar (before the Ignite nerf, I would have said it's par just a bit situational and niche-y). IMO, a set that's AoE heavy should be able to out AoE ST "heavy" sets, not lose on ST and AoE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Don't forget Full Auto has the longest animation of any power in the game.
Lest we get carried away, Red Tomax lists it as 4 seconds [used to be 6, I believe], putting it ahead of all Blaster snipes, and 5 [!] seconds faster than Time Bomb.

Stalker snipes are upwards of 7 seconds.

I'm not saying FA is a good power or a bad power. I'm just factchecking ya.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Lest we get carried away, Red Tomax lists it as 4 seconds [used to be 6, I believe], putting it ahead of all Blaster snipes, and 5 [!] seconds faster than Time Bomb.

Stalker snipes are upwards of 7 seconds.

I'm not saying FA is a good power or a bad power. I'm just factchecking ya.
They buffed it!?!?!?!?!?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

as someone who's been playing an ar/dev an awful lot lately, I like FA. Taken out of context it's a solid fast-recharging fairly big AoE that's up often enough to be part of my regular attack chain.

that said, when we widen our perspective to encompass other sets it starts to lag (which is true of AR as a whole, actually). At the very, very least it could use a bump up from 10 to 16 targets.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I definitely agree with the bump up from 10 to 16 targets. All other Blaster nukes hit a maximum of 16 targets...so why not FA? It's already sub par in every other aspects, including the fact that it deals lethal damage, which is mostly resisted.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
They buffed it!?!?!?!?!?!
In the patch back in Jan 22 2009:

Patch notes 1.22.09


  • Assault Rifle - Buckshot - Reduced animation time to 0.9 seconds.
  • Assault Rifle - Beanbag - Reduced animation time to 0.9 seconds.
  • Assault Rifle - Sniper Rifle - Reduced animation time to 0.67. (Interrupt time not changed)
  • Assault Rifle - Flame thrower - Reduced animation time to 2.33 seconds and DOT effect now starts immediately.
  • Assault Rifle - Ignite - Increased recharge to 20 seconds.
  • Assault Rifle - Full Auto - Reduced animation time to 4 seconds.

As well, they removed the weapon redraw times during one of the patches, so often you can fire a second attack while your grenade is still travelling.


--------------
"Chew Electric Death, Snarling Cur!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPiNE View Post
I definitely agree with the bump up from 10 to 16 targets. All other Blaster nukes hit a maximum of 16 targets...so why not FA?
Because ranged cones have target caps of 10.


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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

Posted

RoA can be cast out of direct line of sight. With FA, you have to be in LoS.

RoA >>> FA

Devs hate AR.


@Griffyn

"40 characters is my limit... okay, 50... 50 is my limit... okay, 60... 60 is my limit... okay, 70..."

 

Posted

RoA's pseudopet also has to cast the damage power 3 times this allows for some interesting things to occur:

Certain enemies in the 16 targets can be missed by 1 or 2 of the damage ticks.
If you are firing at an extremely large group you could hit 48 different targets for 1/3rd of RoA's maximum damage.

I have seen both of these things happen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
RoA's base damage is 3 ticks for 75.07 damage (level 50 Blaster) for 225.21 damage. FA's base damage is 17 ticks of 10.14 damage (level 50 Blaster) with a 10% chance for 62.56 damage, for a total of 178.63 damage. Unless you're saying that, when it procs, FA does more damage than RoA, you're simply wrong.
No, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm talking about absolute damage, not averaged damage. 234.94 > 225.21


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
And while I personally like Ignite, it is highly situational and only qualifies as "very powerful" if you've got the foe immobilized or held.
or if you're a hover blaster like my ar/kin the mob AI may tell it to run away...but it doesn't stop them from running back in