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Some peoples sets rely on mobs in melee for survivability and control and then sometimes a group can be too closed to another which can lead to an impending team wipe with a tanker standing last due to aggro caps. Corner pulling has it's moments of usefulness, maybe as much as 3 times in some missions.|
Originally Posted by Silencer7
There is nothing worse than a scaredy-tank.
Don't range pull with taunt, don't corner pull junk unless we're level 10, just run in there and make friends! |
Then there are reasons for herding, survivability can come from mobs being debuffed. AoE debuffs such as Radiation Infection is only a 15ft rad. Your aura is likely to be an 8 ft rad so for the rad to not get aggro the tighter the better. Swings and roundabouts but I will say that usually I just charge through the middle and turn groups backs to the teams where I can and start with that. Any that don't keep facing me get taunted. I usually taunt the ones nearest to the teams on the turn.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Some Tankers build them selves wrong, and some people shouldnt play Tankers at all.Also, if your rushing into a mob of Purples on a Scrapper, then your more then likly IO'd with Purples your self to accomplish this, or your a /Invln Scrapper using Unstoppable or a Electrical Armor using Surge.Both are possible.
In my personal Experiance, iv let people who have no patience charge in first, in hopes they die.That way they either leave the team, or figure out they should be patient and wait a second longer to let me go in first on my Tankers.
As for you out performing a Tanker?Your prolly playing on Freedum, and that should answer your questions right there.
Also, youv got a chip on your shoulder.....You might wanna have that looked at..its in the shape of a Butt.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Some Tankers build them selves wrong, and some people shouldnt play Tankers at all.Also, if your rushing into a mob of Purples on a Scrapper, then your more then likly IO'd with Purples your self to accomplish this, or your a /Invln Scrapper using Unstoppable or a Electrical Armor using Surge.Both are possible.
In my personal Experiance, iv let people who have no patience charge in first, in hopes they die.That way they either leave the team, or figure out they should be patient and wait a second longer to let me go in first on my Tankers. As for you out performing a Tanker?Your prolly playing on Freedum, and that should answer your questions right there. Also, youv got a chip on your shoulder.....You might wanna have that looked at..its in the shape of a Butt. |
Look a freedom hater how original, and someone else has a chip on their shoulder that's calling the kettle black.
Take your baddo advice and go somewhere else kthxbye.
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Now, wait a sec. I thought one of the rules was, "If it's your first DK TF, you must take an alpha strike."|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I run TFs with my tank all the time. No one beats me to an alpha unless they're trying really damn hard.*
In my mind, the tank sets the pace of the team. Most of the teams I'm on, I take the alpha and stay for three seconds before the spawn is locked down or on its last leg. At that point, I'm moving on to group up the next bunch of mobs. *They could, however, be following rule three, which is "If you feel like you can handle it, you're free to go for it." I don't chase errant team members who want to do their own thing. |
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Tankers who intentionally let bad players die to "teach them a lesson" don't deserve the name. You don't like a team's behavior, you bite the bullet, adjust your tactics and bow out gracefully after the mission's over.
Bad players die just fine without help. Bad tankers let them. |
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Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
Now, wait a sec. I thought one of the rules was, "If it's your first DK TF, you must take an alpha strike."
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HEY! The first rule of DKTF is you do not talk about DKTF! What are you thinking?Erm... yes... they have to take one. But I still say they have to beat me to it.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Ha!
Sadly, I have had many experiences like that of the OP. Hesitant tanks, tanks you're always waiting on... it drives me crazy. As a rule, when I'm tanking (and frankly, most of the time even when I'm not) its just go-time, all the time. I like to hit groups, aggro them, put them where I want them, and then as soon as they're mostly dead or under control, I'm off to the next group. Most players are generally smart, and will pick up my rhythm fairly quickly. I like to MOVE things along. Fortune favors the bold.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
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If a player runs off and does something stupid in another spawn and has the good sense to die, then protecting them would mean you endangering the team as well. No, I'm with you there. Totally agree.|
Originally Posted by Erin Go Braugh
Don't agree there. I have no problem letting folks who play stupidly take it on the chin. Without exception, teammates are telling them to stop doing X or Y. If they persist, then they are writing their own check to cash. If they jeopardize the team, I'll step in. If they are only putting their toon in danger...Darwin rules apply.
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And yet I've seen tankers hang smugly back and LET THE ENTIRE TEAM WIPE because they're annoyed by one charging scrapper and a team who follows that scrapper's lead (no, that scrapper wasn't me. That time.)
I've had tanks who, after joining a team that's been rolling through mobs all night with no problems, suddenly insist that everyone change tactics to suit them - usually screaming in chat in capital letters about a situation that only they see is out of control - or they're taking their taunt aura and sitting in the back. Not quitting the team, mind you - just sitting in back with the squishies to "teach everyone a lesson."
Darwin rules are one thing, and I can agree with you there, but deliberately sandbagging because you disagree with another player's (or players') actions is reprehensible, IMO. If an idiot can be saved without endangering the team, he/she should be saved. Your role as a tanker does not hinge on what others do or do not do.
A tanker's role is to protect teams. Even stupid ones.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I'll likely let a tank tank in their own time or try to be a just a couple of secs in front (they could be hesitant or busy) sometimes you can tank mage, pre control, debuff or just get in with a scrapper and herd up a moment before the scrapper arrives but I am wary of aggro cap and how far ahead I am being. If it's a case of being unsure of the likelihood of a perception check of an extra nearby group I might endeavour to distract that group without trying to compromise others. Dead peeps dont earn xp or have fun do they. Can't be too careful though as your still just as likely to pee others off.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
If you don't mind, I generally like to examine the aggro, before jumping into it. Granted, on a full team of 8 competent players, a Tanker's role is to be the Anvil that holds the mob, so the others can destroy it. However, on smaller teams, or ones without overwhelming damage, breaking up mobs into smaller-sized chunks and using aggro control intelligently is a great survival technique.
I Always prefer to pull the mob onto ground that I've Prepared for their demise, rather than charging onto Their ground and possibly being overwhelmed by a couple of bosses I didn't notice at first, or Snipers from the next group over. This means that I spend some few seconds at the doorway, checking to see that there's not a surprise, waiting to jump my backside when I step through and I'm swinging wide, to see that there's not two or more spawns of mobs, in close proximity. I'm checking the angles, to see if I can draw five or so out of the big tangle, deliver them for destruction, and then go back for more.
Also, even before SSK and the new threat scales, there would/could be certain missions, or team dynamics, which would cause tougher than ordinary spawns. Charging into THAT is pure stupidity. Sometimes the best answer is a 'Long Pull', where you string out the spawn through half of the map chasing you, Lose aggro (deliberately), and then run back and pull off the last stragglers when they return to their spawn point.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a LOT more tactics and strategies for effective Tanking, than simply charging in and taking the alpha. For me, mobility, adaptability, situational awareness, and team communication are more critical than how much aggro you can handle and how much damage you can survive.
Granted, these factors make you more effective, Regardless of AT - and the OP's example groups lacked such things. They are hard to Teach with a large team, which forces a different dynamic... until you crash into a particularly difficult spawn, perhaps with a bunch of CoT plus Shadow Cyst Crystals... At which point, good strategy and tactics can resolve the issue without too many deaths - while lack of these factors leads to people quitting in frustration. A Tanker zerg-rush is Not always the best solution!
Be Well!
Fireheart
I really should make a macro to shout out "Large group of mobs ahead, pulling to here." I don't run into situations like that often, as I generally make sure to leave the previous mob while a couple of them are still alive, and get the next mob gathered up while the team is chasing after me.
However, there are certain rooms (like a couple laboratory rooms) where it's usually best to pull a little bit... no matter how well the team is doing. But the team is so used to steamrolling like I usually do that it's hard to put on the brakes, heh.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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We have brakes? I thought I just had an accelerator|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
But the team is so used to steamrolling like I usually do that it's hard to put on the brakes, heh.
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Joking aside I agree that there are situations where you want to exercise some caution... the lab "room of death" with the catwalk and platform in the middle being a good example. I will survive, but I'll also be so far over aggro cap that the rest of the team may well get too much attention. For that one I have the team stand behind the corner and I run in, gather the aggro cap and run out around the opposite corner and wait for the friends. Usually after one or at most two of these pulls the room's thinned out enough to just bum rush it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'm calling shenanigans on this thread based on the title alone. We all know scrappers don't walk..they swagger and strut!
In all seriousness it sounds like you were the victim of an AE baby Tanker that doesn't understand game dynamics. Most tankers would have no qualms about taking it in the face for the team!
I was referring to the alpha strike!
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Yup, it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. There have been times when I was loath to put on the brakes, and then people dropped. They didn't mind since we were all having fun, but I do like to keep my teams as death free as possible. Unless we're trying to be really crazy, of course. |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
We have brakes? I thought I just had an accelerator
Joking aside I agree that there are situations where you want to exercise some caution... the lab "room of death" with the catwalk and platform in the middle being a good example. I will survive, but I'll also be so far over aggro cap that the rest of the team may well get too much attention. For that one I have the team stand behind the corner and I run in, gather the aggro cap and run out around the opposite corner and wait for the friends. Usually after one or at most two of these pulls the room's thinned out enough to just bum rush it. |
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
To avoid an offensive comment, you can also say in team chat: "k tanker, it's all yours," and the tanker SHOULD get the message and charge in...
It's better to use a form of public chat, such as team chat, over private message because private messages can be misinterpreted as aggressive and can be misunderstood as "telling others how to play their AT." Also, if the Tanker doesn't listen, team chat assures that EVERYONE else on the team will also think that the Tanker's a noob and want him out. Peer pressure ftw!
If nothing else works? Roll a Tanker. Call GG.
My scrapper walks in the door, sees a big group, squeals with glee and leaps in. (I've been the only lvl 50 melee type on some teams with lowbie friends ... I AM the tank)
I play tanks kinda like I play my emp ... I take it personally if anyone dies. Jump in, taunt, punchvoke, scramble to keep the squishies alive. Someone else does the damage.
I play brutes VERY aggressively, I want ALL the aggro, I will kill ALL the enemies, y'all are just along for the ride ... take care of yourselves.
.....flips out and kills everything......or dies trying to....
There is nothing worse than a scaredy-tank.
Don't range pull with taunt, don't corner pull junk unless we're level 10, just run in there and make friends!
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)