Tired of Acrobatics

I've noticed lately that there seem to be more blasters and other ranged squishies utilizing flight/hover over Sj/Acrobatics + a bunch of KB protection IOs. I've considered trying this for a mind/elec I recently rolled for zone play (with SS just in case of -fly). What do you guys think?

That it is a really poor idea.

Yeah whatever...

In truth though, I have always kinda laughed at how this 41 points or more of KB is said to be needed in PvP when all that investment is matched simply by taking hover. KB is only a death sentence to jumpers caught mid jump leaving them with nothing to do but fall and die. In fairness, one can run into many problems on a flying PvP toon too... but KB isn't one of those problems.

The pros outweigh the cons, yeah 41 pts of KB protection or take fly and hover, be slow, get immobed, get -fly, be bad.

Fly works on my peacebringer, though I can just TP to top of map when I get web naded. Not sure how it would work with a non-TPer

I use fly on most of my pvp toons. It lets me soar majestically through the air, weave in and out of buildings to avoid attacks. And if you use A, A, Space you do a barrel roll to the left. D, D, Space is a barrel roll to the right. Its great for avoiding attacks. You can always just fly up and pick when you want to attack and always contribute to the fight.

There are a few other maneuvers you can pull but those are more sekrit and let you avoid more attacks and do dive bombs so enemies can never see you coming. The first step to learning them is believing they exist.

Don't believe me? Okay just one more. If you slot fly and swift with Micros and turn on invisibility (from stealth pool) tap W twice then hold space you won't get any Travel Suppression until you let go.

I haven't seen many people with fly turn the tide in zones as well as me, but I know I'm not the only one who knows about the fly poses and tricks you can do with them.

Hm. I've used Fly since issue i12, and I was constantly told how "bad" it was as a travel power. So I'll shed some light on my experience with Hover/fly.

Fly -

Pros: As someone said in a previous post, you get a Birdseye view of the entire field. With fly, I'm able to see my "threats" before they're able to see me. With being said, I can, and will almost always get the drop on someone from above. For those who like to duck and dodge between buildings, than can do it all they want, I'm right above the building waiting for them to come out.


Safety - Contrary to what people believe, Fly is SAFER than SS/SJ to a certain extent. With fly, you don't have to be on guard as much while not engaging someone in a fight. SS/SJ'ers need to constantly move like they're jacked up on caffeine as to not be wrecked by a stalker. (Keep in mine I'm not saying that you can't be wrecked by a stalker with fly, those who know how to use fly will be generally safer.)


Escapes - With fly you can escape to places that a few others can't get to, with the exception of those who use the jet pack. If you yourself have a -fly like I do, it's not a problem to deal with, fall damage is nice to have on your side.


KB - I originally took fly because being kb'd in the air isn't as serious as it is being kb'd on the ground. I'll take a small back-flip animation in the air over being knocked on my back, or stacking my toon with a ton of KB protection IOs taking away from other things that can be used. I currently have 15 kb protection, recently dropped from 19.


Cons - Mobility - When you take fly, you make sacrifices. While you are able to access any area of the zone, you are limited to how fast you can get there, and while engaged in a fight movement suppression may seem like an Achilles heal. Also assisting allies may be difficult especially on pugs if they are far away getting pounded on. Fly is SLOW, even when capped out it's still the slowest travel power in the game.


Webnades/other -fly powers - The real Achilles heel of fly. If you aren't careful, you'll be perma webnaded. Using fly you need to pick your battles wisely, Identify those who have webnade, and get the drop on you before the reverse happens. If fly is your ONLY travel power, and you aren't experienced in using it, chances are you'll get crushed if grounded. Webnade doesn't initially mean death, it's what you do after being grounded. Personally when I'm grounded I have a few "Tricks" to get out of the sticky situations.



Hover -


Pros - Good lord! -Fly Protection! While it may not be that high, hover does get -fly protection which will prevent you from being dropped by certain -fly attacks. However there are some powers that just make you drop from the sky, hover or not.(Webnade!)


Air Control - With hover you have more control over your movement as opposed to fly. Meaning you move exactly where you want to go, no more no extra.


Con - Hover is SLOW. You aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. Especially with movement suppression, you might as well stay where you are. However, there is a way around it. The Jump-pack. When you put the jump pack on your flight speed is greatly increased, and because you have hover your control is excellent. This lasts about 30 secs, which is enough to to either escape, or continue engaging.


Now with that being said, let's not forget about the other baddies/do gooders that fly. I personally don't have Air Superiority, as I have entangle arrow. For those who don't Try it out.

I get a lot of flack for using fly, but I can hold it down out there.

Pros of fly: tards who can't or won't look up(downies drown if they look up)



Cons of fly: everything else(seriously)

Fly sucks, arty is good, which makes him decent when he could be good

Fine, I'll chime in too, at least regarding zone PvP.

I used fly on most of my toons for a couple issues starting with I13. In zones, it is definitely an alternative to SS/SJ. It does have advantages, but mainly it has disadvantages.

First of all, I think if you take fly, you have to take TP. SS just doesn't fit well with fly. Fly+TP work much better together. So that means no hasten (fitness, fly, tp, concealment), which is of course a huge deal. But whatever, you can still get some +recharge from sets.

Due to TP, you can get from point A to point B faster than anyone. But it's hard to chase someone that actually knows how to evade. Yes, really bad players can still be chased when they just run in a straight line all the way from one base to the other. And you can TP ahead of them, cueing up a snipe (very difficult move that only one person in the game can do!!!). But yeah, chasing someone that isn't an idiot is almost impossible. Fly is too slow, and TP has too little control. You have to predict where the person is going to go, which is simply not reliable against good players.

For the same reason, it's hard to be a part of a team. People change direction a lot, and everything suppressing you becomes even more noticeable than usual. Teaming works really well only with other fliers, which means teaming with noobs for the most part.

So yeah, those are the cons. For the pros, I agree it's safer. You can just sit at the top of the map, and nobody will attack you! Then you can brag about not dying a single time. But it's only safe like stalkers are safe....because you can choose when to attack. When you actually do attack, you're at a severe disadvantage. It is really easy to get away with fly+TP though. When in trouble, you simply phase and TP wherever. And there is basically zero chance that someone can get you. You can just keep TP'ing, and you stay totally safe. But while this does accomplish the goal of you not dying, you're also 100% useless. You add nothing to the fight. And if someone decides, they can keep you out of the fight like this forever. Yeah, they'll never kill you, but you will never kill anyone else.

It's a tradeoff. Most people prefer to use SS/SJ and simply keep moving "like they're jacked up on caffeine", because pressing WASD is really not very hard. And then they can actually move while fighting, contribute to a team, chase people, run away if needed, etc.

Fly+TP was a fad of mine for a while, and I did enjoy it, and it did work well for me. Ronin and I tore sirens up on our flying blasters in I13, and many copied us. At some point in I13-I14 probably 80-90% of blasters in sirens had fly. You almost HAD to have fly to even participate in PvP there, because most of it took place in the air. And I still had fly on my blaster as recently as I15, and had great success in RV too. TP'ing out of hibernate is basically an auto-getaway, as I discovered.

But in the end, it's simply not as good as SS/SJ. The cons outweigh the pros. If you are good with both options, you will be better off with SS/SJ in almost 100% of situations.

As far as fly is concerned, I know SS/SJ>Fly, without a doubt it does, but it's something that works for me, Arena or Zone. Keep in mind I do have an SS/SJ build (thanks to dual builds!), and I love speeding along and being able to leap tall buildings. Fly is still my shiz though.


Edit*


(Forgot to quote so i'm doing it the bootleg way!)

"Teaming works really well only with other fliers, which means teaming with noobs for the most part."



I disagree. I lead many, many teams in RV, and 95% of the time I'm the only flier on the team. I can assure you that the majority of my teams are successful, and that's with pure coordination and pre-empting the team and how things will be done.

You play a TA. It's not very hard to be part of a team when the only thing you realistically contibute is glue+acid. They are good powers that turn many people into easy kills for your team. But they're not rocket science. The only skill in TA comes in not getting farmed, and that's why you probably prefer the safer fly. It makes sense.

But try playing a flying buffer or someone that actually has to engage in combat for more than 2 powers. It's a different story.