Quote:
Ghost Widow is already confirmed as a (I believe) high-ranking Resistance fighter.| The Banshee is the alternate Ghost Widow. Once she was Stefan's lover, but she was killed by Tyrant. Unfortunately for Tyrant and his Praetorians, she didn't /stay/ dead -- she is bound to the ideals espoused by Stefan. Only when the very last shred of freedom is crushed under Tyrant's boot will she vanish. |
Also, Calvin Scott seems to fill to literary role of your reimagined Recluse. That being said, it's certainly a concept with promise.
Quote:
Tyrant killed Stefan at the well of the Furies. Unless that's been retconned, there is no Praetorian Stefan Richter.
|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
My guess is there's a homeless guy walking the streets of Praetoria named "Stefan".
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
Ghost Widow is already confirmed as a (I believe) high-ranking Resistance fighter.
Also, Calvin Scott seems to fill to literary role of your reimagined Recluse. That being said, it's certainly a concept with promise. |
Ghost Widow is very much alive. There was a screenshot of Resistance_Bella posted months ago.
Quote:
Freaky... 117 is a number that's been following me around since my teenage years.|
Originally Posted by Mirror_Man
Well, there's the Lord Recluse from Universe COV-117 who ALMOST took over all of Paragon City, though his plan backfired and he only succeeded in getting all of Arachnos destroyed before...
Oh, wait. MA arcs don't count? Never mind.  |
A side note, in the Reichsman thread, it was noted that all the alternate Coles we know about are evil. Statesman is the exception. The only difference in Primal Earth is the existence of Lord Recluse. Coincidence? Perhaps not.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
I like it. One of my characters (Operative Webb) comes from an alternate Earth controlled entirely by Arachnos. However, in that one Lord Recluse was killed by Lord Tarantula. Operative Webb is that world's version of Dr. Brian Webb on Primal Earth, founder of Portal Corp.
|
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker
I had a kind of idea regarding this, where Recluse and his cronies, in Praetoria, run subtle, long-game plans to gradually topple Tyrant's regime.
Stefan himself is never seen; he's Simon Jester, the ghost that just can't be caught. Whether it's because he's actually dead, or is just that good is up to the person writing. His lieutenants are Sirocco, King Crab, Admiral Orca, and the Banshee. Sirocco is probably the least changed from COV canon, except he's at peace with himself. He was a freedom fighter before; he still is now. King Crab is the alternate Black Scorpion, a master of technology (admittedly self-taught) and a terror in his massive battle armor. He's especially skilled at 'MacGyvering' and juryrigging; a lot of his gear is salvaged equipment that somehow works. Admiral Orca is the alternate Captain Mako, and is the most changed. He's far bigger and bulkier, though he's still quick on his feet. Devastating in combat, his personality is far more refined that one expects (think Henry McCoy with a cetacean theme). He commands the fleets of ships that act as refugee camps from Tyrant's rule. The Banshee is the alternate Ghost Widow. Once she was Stefan's lover, but she was killed by Tyrant. Unfortunately for Tyrant and his Praetorians, she didn't /stay/ dead -- she is bound to the ideals espoused by Stefan. Only when the very last shred of freedom is crushed under Tyrant's boot will she vanish. Opinions? |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
Just remember the "I Wasn't QUITE Dead" and "I Had A Miraculous Escape" memes of comic books. He could pop up any time, alive, well and ready to rumble. Comics are pretty shameless that way. |
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
Tyrant killed Stefan at the well of the Furies. Unless that's been retconned, there is no Praetorian Stefan Richter.
|
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Wuigly Squigly
Daddy Longleg, the hippie spider, protests Tyrant's un-friendly to the environment methods on the streets of Praetoria with his fellow hippie spiders.
Tie-dyed arachnos fliers with enviro-friendly fuel or something. |
That was great!
Quote:
... Oh, holy crap how I wish it were so! The name is perfect!
|
Originally Posted by Wuigly Squigly
Daddy Longleg, the hippie spider, protests Tyrant's un-friendly to the environment methods on the streets of Praetoria with his fellow hippie spiders.
Tie-dyed arachnos fliers with enviro-friendly fuel or something. |
@Eisenzahn
GW2 - Melchior.2135
AIM - Euroclydon23
Email - scorpany@yahoo.com or <sameasmyAIM>@aol.com (for the sheer novelty of an almost 20 year old email address that hasn't been overwhelmed by spambots yet)
Quote:
Well, it was there then. Doesn't mean it was always there. Isn't there lore claiming the Greek Gods were the result of a similar opening at one point, or is that just speculation? It's a possibility that they moved it there after they found it whereever.
|
Golden Girl thinks static: Well, the Well of the Furies seems to be located in or close to Greece, so it's more likely that Westerners would come accross it than people from other areas of the world, especially in older times when people didn't travel so much. |
Dec out.
Quote:
Well, Statesman seems to be evil in nearly every dimension we come across, so I don't see why States has to be the only unique and pretty snowflake in our dimension. Why can't Recluse join in on the action of being nearly unique, too (by... being alive? |
Originally Posted by Shadowclone
We have seen plenty of alternate Statesman: Imperious, Reichsman, Tyrant ect. But as far as I know we have no knowledge of any alternate Recluses. It seems a little weird that Stefan Richter would die in all dimensions except primal earth.
|
)Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
My guess is there's a homeless guy walking the streets of Praetoria named "Stefan".
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Isn't there lore claiming the Greek Gods were the result of a similar opening at one point, or is that just speculation? It's a possibility that they moved it there after they found it whereever.
|
('Aliens?' I hear you say. I respond: A wizard did it!)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Status Stefan Richter -
Primal Earth: Turned in to Lord Recluse
Praetorian Earth: Killed for no known reason in the Well of Furies
Axis America: Unknown
Also it should be noted that Recluse is or was not a bad guy if you read his bio. He was knocked out and washed to sea by the Cave's collapse in Primal Earth (might have killed him in Praetorian Earth or something else could have happened to him that prevented him from re-emerging without dying, but as far as info states he is dead) and then while figuring out how to make humanity better he joined Arachnos and slowly turned "evil" over time. Likely caused by Thanatos? (I think that's his god's name) ... So he is a lot more like Two-Face where he is a good man gone bad due to some psychosis or something and has two conflicting sides warring inside him.
Also Imperious is not Statesman or Marcus Cole as far as we have been told. He is another Zeus Incarnate and as they pick who they incarnate in it would stand to reason they choose similar personalities/appearances or change them to fit what they like.
Quote:
Any sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from a wizard. |
Fleeting Whisper speaks for Lucy Lawless: I don't know if it's stated explicitly, but it's definitely implied. Pandora's Box is the source of mankind's surges of inspiration throughout history, as well as apparently the source of super powers. ('Aliens?' I hear you say. I respond: A wizard did it!) |
Dec out.
Quote:
that's better|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Praetorian Earth: Killed because Marcus is a dick in the Well of Furies
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Likely caused by Thanatos? (I think that's his god's name)
|
While Tartarus is a place, it's also a force. Not quite a god or titan, but not inanimate, either. (And therefore, incarnates in CoH aren't necessarily granted power by gods specifically.)
Hesiod says that a hammer falling from heaven to Earth would taken 9 days. Homer asserts that Tartarus is as far below Earth as Earth is below heaven. Tartarus literally means "deep place".
So... the dead go to Hades. The dead who were wicked enough in life to deserve punishment go to Tartarus instead. The source of Recluse's power isn't necessarily evil, in the same sense that Time forcing you to grow older isn't "evil". It just is. But Recluse's incarnate patron is certainly closely tied with evil beings.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
In the first novel, Stefan is portrayed as quite a bit more dickish than Cole, who is portrayed as quite dickish to begin with.|
Durakken states: Also it should be noted that Recluse is or was not a bad guy if you read his bio. He was knocked out and washed to sea by the Cave's collapse in Primal Earth (might have killed him in Praetorian Earth or something else could have happened to him that prevented him from re-emerging without dying, but as far as info states he is dead) and then while figuring out how to make humanity better he joined Arachnos and slowly turned "evil" over time. Likely caused by Thanatos? (I think that's his god's name) ... So he is a lot more like Two-Face where he is a good man gone bad due to some psychosis or something and has two conflicting sides warring inside him. |
But then, that's the novels, not the game lore.
Dec out.
Quote:
Tartarus is a Titan and is the brother of Cronos... Gaia's his both of their's mother. In greek, and many other mythologies, places can be entities too. It's a bit weird but it's true. Tartarus is actually not hell per say... Hades is the entire underword, while Tartarus is the place for those special enough to be needing extra watching and such. The Elysion fields are heaven. The general hades is more akin to purgatorial hell than Tartarus is... but not important ^.^ so let's move on.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
that's better
Recluse is an incarnate of Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is essentially hell (where souls go after death if they need to be punished). It's also 'historically' where various (still living) entities were locked away to protect the rulers of the earth at the time. For example, the titan Cronus locked the Cyclopes in Tartarus. Zeus released the Cyclopes, and locked most of the titans in Tartarus when he rose to power. While Tartarus is a place, it's also a force. Not quite a god or titan, but not inanimate, either. (And therefore, incarnates in CoH aren't necessarily granted power by gods specifically.) Hesiod says that a hammer falling from heaven to Earth would taken 9 days. Homer asserts that Tartarus is as far below Earth as Earth is below heaven. Tartarus literally means "deep place". |
Quote:
Being a dick doesn't make you less good. It just makes you a dick.
|
Originally Posted by Decorum
In the first novel, Stefan is portrayed as quite a bit more dickish than Cole, who is portrayed as quite dickish to begin with.
But then, that's the novels, not the game lore. |
Being a dick is a definition of "not good". There's no "good" connotation of "being a dick".
Degrees of dickery and shades of gray. Neither Marcus nor Stefan were paragons of virtue.
Dec out.
Quote:
No, Tartarus is more akin to the sibling of Gaia and Uranus. In fact, Tartarus and Gaia together spawn the monster Typhon.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Tartarus is a Titan and is the brother of Cronos... Gaia's his both of their's mother.
|
Yes, Tartarus is both an entity and a location, but he's not a titan like Cronus, Oceanus, Phoebe, Tethys, ... I don't remember the rest.
*now I'm looking things up*
Tartarus is one of the Protogenoi, from which all of the gods descend. This group includes Aether (light), Chaos (void), Chronos (time)*, Erebus (darkness), Eros (love), Gaia (earth), Hemera (day), Nyx (night), Ophion (serpent), Phanes (generation), Tartarus (hellpit), and Uranus (heaven).
* Chronos the protogenos is not to be confused with Chronus the titan.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
Sounds about right... Though I've never heard of Protegenoi or there being a Cronos and a Cronus...and I would see what the book I have on the subject says, but I don't want to look for it at the moment...or research it at the moment so I'll take your word for it as it sounds right enough with what I know off hand.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
No, Tartarus is more akin to the sibling of Gaia and Uranus. In fact, Tartarus and Gaia together spawn the monster Typhon.
Yes, Tartarus is both an entity and a location, but he's not a titan like Cronus, Oceanus, Phoebe, Tethys, ... I don't remember the rest. *now I'm looking things up* Tartarus is one of the Protogenoi, from which all of the gods descend. This group includes Aether (light), Chaos (void), Chronos (time)*, Erebus (darkness), Eros (love), Gaia (earth), Hemera (day), Nyx (night), Ophion (serpent), Phanes (generation), Tartarus (hellpit), and Uranus (heaven). * Chronos the protogenos is not to be confused with Chronus the titan. |
Anglicizing makes them more similarly spelled than they would have been to the Greeks.
Titan - Cronus or Kronos (Ancient Greek Κρόνος, Krónos)
Time personification - Chronos (Ancient Greek: Χρόνος)
Dec out.
Personally, I still prefer the idea of convergent realities more than that of divergent ones, at least for fiction. It's more interesting to try and guess what it is that realities are converging upon, why they are doing so and through that explain the similarities and differences between them. It's more fun than different ancient histories and easier to explain why Earth seems to exist and kind of be the same in so many this way.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
That is utter nonsense.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I still prefer the idea of convergent realities more than that of divergent ones, at least for fiction. It's more interesting to try and guess what it is that realities are converging upon, why they are doing so and through that explain the similarities and differences between them. It's more fun than different ancient histories and easier to explain why Earth seems to exist and kind of be the same in so many this way.
|
Take 10 objects and give them 10,000 variables and try to get them to slowly move towards a all 10,000 of those variables being the same. Over a very very very long time you might get them all to line up, but the probability is so low that it is unlikely any of those objects will every be anything alike.
Conversely Take 1 object with 56,000,000,000,000 variables and divide it into 100,000,000 objects slowly over time with, each time a new one is created setting it's variables as the same that spawned it. Over long times there will be progressively less similarities but they will always be far more similar than the convergent objects at most points in history save for very rare occurrences that would likely never happen.
In other words... The chances that realities that are alike are convergent in this way are as so low that it might as well be called impossible. The chances that realities that are alike being divergent are near pretty much so close to 100% you might as well just say it is.
on the other hand there is another way... There is another theory that argues that if there are divergent universes they would compulsively converge at a later point in history.... Of course, if i remember right, that theory also argues that one or both of the universes ceases to exist upon convergence and in the case of both a new universe is created having the history of both the other two.
Quote:
What are the chances that a man can fly? What are the chances that a man can leap tall buildings in a single bound? What are the chances that a man can run faster than a speeding bullet? Pretty low, actually. Must be either a bird or a plane.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
In other words... The chances that realities that are alike are convergent in this way are as so low that it might as well be called impossible. The chances that realities that are alike being divergent are near pretty much so close to 100% you might as well just say it is.
|
You know, instead of spending your time browbeating people into reading what you meant, rather than what you said, why don't you spend more time reading what people actually said? Take this instance, for example. What I said was:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I still prefer the idea of convergent realities more than that of divergent ones, at least for fiction.
|
So? Screw 'em. This is fiction, and not even hard fiction. We have super heroes of diverse origins and elements, all susceptible to the same power suppression field that turns them into humans, while all of them are applicable to be cloned in vats, despite some having actually been CREATED on an assembly line or built out of Lego bricks. We have all sort of soft science that's there for dramatic effect and plot convenience.
Besides, are you really going to compare the theory of probability to multiverse physics? You failed to account for the elders of the universe and the multiverse god. You also forgot to carry the prophecy and the coefficient weight of trans-dimensional destiny. You also neglected to mention the factor of "timeline rigidity" that alters the timeline to account for errant events and alter it so the result is always the same. And, of course, you never mention that, in the end, a wizard did it all.
I PREFER the theory of convergent realities because it's MORE INTERESTING NARRATIVELY. I don't give two rats about theoretical dimensional science as exists today when scientists can't even prove alternate dimensions actually exist. Trust me, I graduated applied mathematics. I'm well aware of ******** theoretical constructs of higher-dimension space. They're all about as boring as they sound.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Your odds and probability mean nothing when dealing with infinite possible universes. With infinity as the result, the odds are certain that at least one universe fills the requirements.
|
Durakken basically spouts gibberish: That is utter nonsense. Take 10 objects and give them 10,000 variables and try to get them to slowly move towards a all 10,000 of those variables being the same. Over a very very very long time you might get them all to line up, but the probability is so low that it is unlikely any of those objects will every be anything alike. Conversely Take 1 object with 56,000,000,000,000 variables and divide it into 100,000,000 objects slowly over time with, each time a new one is created setting it's variables as the same that spawned it. Over long times there will be progressively less similarities but they will always be far more similar than the convergent objects at most points in history save for very rare occurrences that would likely never happen. In other words... The chances that realities that are alike are convergent in this way are as so low that it might as well be called impossible. The chances that realities that are alike being divergent are near pretty much so close to 100% you might as well just say it is. on the other hand there is another way... There is another theory that argues that if there are divergent universes they would compulsively converge at a later point in history.... Of course, if i remember right, that theory also argues that one or both of the universes ceases to exist upon convergence and in the case of both a new universe is created having the history of both the other two. |
Dec out.
I had a kind of idea regarding this, where Recluse and his cronies, in Praetoria, run subtle, long-game plans to gradually topple Tyrant's regime.
Stefan himself is never seen; he's Simon Jester, the ghost that just can't be caught. Whether it's because he's actually dead, or is just that good is up to the person writing.
His lieutenants are Sirocco, King Crab, Admiral Orca, and the Banshee.
Sirocco is probably the least changed from COV canon, except he's at peace with himself. He was a freedom fighter before; he still is now.
King Crab is the alternate Black Scorpion, a master of technology (admittedly self-taught) and a terror in his massive battle armor. He's especially skilled at 'MacGyvering' and juryrigging; a lot of his gear is salvaged equipment that somehow works.
Admiral Orca is the alternate Captain Mako, and is the most changed. He's far bigger and bulkier, though he's still quick on his feet. Devastating in combat, his personality is far more refined that one expects (think Henry McCoy with a cetacean theme). He commands the fleets of ships that act as refugee camps from Tyrant's rule.
The Banshee is the alternate Ghost Widow. Once she was Stefan's lover, but she was killed by Tyrant. Unfortunately for Tyrant and his Praetorians, she didn't /stay/ dead -- she is bound to the ideals espoused by Stefan. Only when the very last shred of freedom is crushed under Tyrant's boot will she vanish.
Opinions?
"Let your plans be dark and as impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." --Sun Tzu, The Art of War