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To my knowledge, it has not (although I have not searched to see).|
Judgement_Dave wants to know: i.e. Please forget about the buying vets rewards bit and tell me if the idea of a parallel stream of subscription-time-based rewards taking now(ish) as a start point has been suggested before? |
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| And if not: does it have any merit? |
Dec out.
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^ I will subscribe to this idea, though. /Signed
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I've always felt that if they are going to have costume pieces as rewards then there should be a basic set available for everyone to use while the vet reward is the fancy/unique one.
Take the Samurai Armor for example. They should have given everyone a basic set and called it something like Ronin, and had the vet reward be a fancy set called Shogun or Daimyo version |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Here's what I see happening with tiers:|
Originally Posted by Decorum
To my knowledge, it has not (although I have not searched to see).
To my mind, no it does not. We have Veteran Rewards already. There's no need for a second tier of this. First tier is plenty of thanks. Just because people have the patience of a hyperactive gibbon and ridiculous entitlement issues is no reason to change it. |
1. People complaining they still don't get the 60-63-66-etc. (to current endpoint plus development time) rewards, have to wait and want to buy them. These threads don't go away.
2. The devs have to come up, immediately, with the full reward set for each tier. Why? Because
3. The long term vets get everything, all at once, for any new tier introduced (leading to more of #1, as well, when "But I don't get the 5 year x1, x2, x3 rewards and I don't want to wait!" comes around, plus more arguments over "Fairness" of powers and the like.)
4. That also moves that "thanks" from a nice, every three months, to "You get everything, but at some random point." Which isn't as big a deal, but for those looking at this as an incentive, it's - *odd.*
There are exactly two things I'd see done to the vet reward system:
1. Costumes. I've warmed to the idea of "You get the costume items at the same points, but choose which of the costume bits to get" - much like we do with the Nem staff/blackwand/sands/axe/"pick the one you didn't" rewards. Same reward points, but with the choice of style.
2. Slowing the vet rewards. At some point, move from every 3 months (though you may still get badges) to every six months to a year for "awards." Why?
- Dev-side, less trying to find "something nice but not 'too good'" or requiring art/costume time.
- Vet-side, really, less "but I have 5000 respecs already" type items.
- Not-as-vet side, less "They get all of that, I'll never see it" feelings as some have tried to bring up in this thread.
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Hmmm...the costume parts do seem to be an afterthought of "Whoops!" on the part of the devs (mentioned earlier in the thread, I believe), as they get to a quick point of "look, they're not giving us costume parts any more. I do like your idea of picking. I also like Forbin's "plain and fancy" idea. That could even be done right now, just add plain versions of the Vet stuff into regular costuming and leave the fancy stuff for the Rewards (although I'm right off seeing glitches with things like trenchcoats and boxing stuff that really don't have fancy versions).|
Memphis_Bill takes us in a new direction: There are exactly two things I'd see done to the vet reward system: 1. Costumes. I've warmed to the idea of "You get the costume items at the same points, but choose which of the costume bits to get" - much like we do with the Nem staff/blackwand/sands/axe/"pick the one you didn't" rewards. Same reward points, but with the choice of style. |
I'm not against changing some stuff in Vet Rewards, I just don't want it done to appease shouting Veruca Salts (it won't fit here, but I usually have this quote in my siggy..."Can it, you nit!" - Violet Beauregarde
) wanting to get stuff they haven't earned.Quote:
2. Slowing the vet rewards. At some point, move from every 3 months (though you may still get badges) to every six months to a year for "awards." Why?
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Dec out.
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The badge is similar to the vet reward badges. Or the anniversary badges. You've been subscribed through a specific period and/or been in-game during a specific period.|
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
Last year the devs did the loyalty program for a badge and guaranteed entry to a tier of GR beta (assuming goodstanding).
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Entry into beta does not convey any lasting or ongoing abilities.
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What if they'd also tied a costume piece to the badge... What if they then did another loyalty scheme starting after the last one ended for accounts subbed for 3 months... with a badge... What if they repeated it again... and maybe gave a badge and a minor QoL temp power... |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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NO on the first part.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
For the love of everything and anything.....plz plz PLZ GO CURL UP INTO A DARK CORNER AND CRY YOURSELF for making this thread..
USE THE SEARCH ENGINE !!!!!!! |
And to the rest
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Oh god people, I am trying to help City of Heroes in general. If anything cascading rewards would severely amplify continual membership.
Did any of you read them entirely, just checking? Or did you just read the tittle and have a knee jerk reaction. |
Interesting question, which is worse, a person who doesn't read the OP, or the person who doesn't use the search engine?
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And idea #2?
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Originally Posted by McBoo
While something like this could believably increase revenue I think that it would do more to increase player churn rather than increasing long time membership.
Folks would be pissed that they are paying the extra money but effectively still have to wait. There would be a large number of new players that would be willing to pay the extra $50 right when they sign up so that they can get an extra attack at level 1 and wings as a costume item right away. I understand that your suggestion puts a cap on that but it won't be a popular cap and since money talks it wouldn't be long before all veteran rewards were eligible for purchase from day one. That leads to new players joining the game, buying up all the vet rewards they want and then power leveling to 50 in the space of a month at which point they grow bored with the game and cancel their account. The veteran rewards are meant to be gratuities for player loyalty, not "bling" that can be picked up by anyone with more money than sense. /unsigned > |
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Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
I'm not entirely certain that I'm reading this correctly, but I think that you're saying to have two sets of rewards rewards running alongside each other... the original one that counts time from c.6 years ago and a new one that just counts time from whenever it's implemented. The original list would still work, but not have any new rewards added to it.
So if it was implemented today and I got my 60month original reward today, then in 3 months time I'd get the 63month reward from the original list and I'd also get the 3month reward from the new list. Someone else starting today would get the 3month reward from each list in 3 months time. Is that the correct interpretation? If that is what you mean, then it's not actually that bad an idea. Though I'd keep the badges attached to the original and possibly the odd annual reward - i.e. I'd still add badges for things like 90month vet. It could even make sense from a dev-time allocation standpoint: As time goes on the number of people who've been here fully subbed from day 1 will be going down (as people leave or 'rest' their sub). So the number of people getting the new benefits/rewards when they are available (or soon after) is decreasing, meaning that devtime put into them is effectively becoming less efficiently used. But if a second stream of rewards were started from now then virtually every current player would benefit from any devtime spent on the 3 month reward when it went 'live' in 3 months time. |
You have interpreted it correctly.
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And Idea #2?
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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Let em buy the vet rewards at an equal cost
If they wanna shell out 1000+ $/ on one go to get a few trifles in game like a buff pet which is useless and gets killed every 2 seconds, a couple of respecs, icon discount etc. let em... Just rename the badges to "I'm an idiot with too much money" for each one. Then the rest of us can just point and laugh at them. |
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..Fair enough crying isnt for everyone..tho try and roll urself into a dark corner...its fun |
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
NO on the first part.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
And to the rest
So please instead of reading the title TRY and read the OP. Interesting question, which is worse, a person who doesn't read the OP, or the person who doesn't use the search engine? |
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NO, read the OP.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You want to make the 60 month possible for brand new players to buy?
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If you read the OP then you would have noticed that I stated that I read this in another similar thread, and felt it wasn't noticed directly because of this, so I made this thread.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
..Fair enough crying isnt for everyone..tho try and roll urself into a dark corner...its fun
I always read the OP tbh Never say somnething about the title unless its an idea for future posts about what to say as a title |
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
A similar discussion happened in another thread which got me thinking on these.
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The vet system is absolutely fine like it is.
The people complaining about it are looking at it as being unfair to new players because verterans have things they don't have access to yet.
Of course they get things you don't. They did something you didn't. They had a subscription 5+ years ago, you did not. You are not entitled to something they got for doing that when you did not do it.
A couple real world examples:
Asking for the veteran rewards early is exactly the same as getting hired at a new job and demanding the top pay rate for that job on your first day. Yes, the guy who's been working there for 5 years gets paid more than you. That's because he has done something you have not, in this case, retained employment there for 5 years.
It's also similar to joining the military and demanding that you receive the same privileges as a corporal or sergeant before you even finish basic training.
The people complaining that it isn't fair are being told the same thing you would be told in either of those situations. Which is, essentially, you will get those rewards when you have earned them, just like everyone else, and not before. The people who have those rewards already didn't do anything special to earn them, and when you have achieved the same milestone you will get the exact same rewards.
No one is special, or more important than anyone else. You cannot spend more money than the next guy to get more, or get it faster. Everyone is subject to the exact same rules, and money does not change those rules for you. And that is exactly how it should remain.
A new tier of veteran rewards would create the exact same problem a year from now, when new players will want twice the amount of things they haven't earned yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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That is a perfectly good statement. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The vet system is absolutely fine like it is.
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Edit: But doesn't mean I don't feel like it can't be improved, however unwarranted it might be. In the end I think this entire concept stems from my concern for the continuance of the game. Not many games last 6 years, and I have to wonder how much longer it will continue. Yes they are making the steps to update the game, but that still doesn't completely put my concerns at ease. So I am trying to find ways to help introduce new players better to the game, this thread being my first few ideas. My favorite for this is my idea #2.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The people complaining about it are looking at it as being unfair to new players because verterans have things they don't have access to yet.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Of course they get things you don't. They did something you didn't. They had a subscription 5+ years ago, you did not. You are not entitled to something they got for doing that when you did not do it.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
A couple real world examples:
Asking for the veteran rewards early is exactly the same as getting hired at a new job and demanding the top pay rate for that job on your first day. Yes, the guy who's been working there for 5 years gets paid more than you. That's because he has done something you have not, in this case, retained employment there for 5 years. It's also similar to joining the military and demanding that you receive the same privileges as a corporal or sergeant before you even finish basic training. The people complaining that it isn't fair are being told the same thing you would be told in either of those situations. Which is, essentially, you will get those rewards when you have earned them, just like everyone else, and not before. The people who have those rewards already didn't do anything special to earn them, and when you have achieved the same milestone you will get the exact same rewards. No one is special, or more important than anyone else. You cannot spend more money than the next guy to get more, or get it faster. Everyone is subject to the exact same rules, and money does not change those rules for you. And that is exactly how it should remain. |
You may understand exactly what I am saying, and competently disagree, and I am okay with that, however let me try and present what I think is a more accurate analogy of what I am trying to do.
You join this company. Everyone is paid equally, however strange it is. Every 3 mouths you work there everyone gets some bonus memorabilia for working there. This memorabilia has a progression rate for each individual. First is a free pen, second is a free note book, third is a free jacket, fourth is a vest; there is a fifth and ongoing rewards.
After you get the free pen, you can buy the note book, but not the jacket or the vest, or anything following. Having gotten the pen and note book, already. 3 months later you get the jacket, and can buy the vest, but you can not buy the following memorabilia.
Edit: FYI, with my suggested system for #1, you would need to already be on for 3 years, and shell out $120, for the remaining 3 years of advancement.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
A new tier of veteran rewards would create the exact same problem a year from now, when new players will want twice the amount of things they haven't earned yet.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
I disagree, but okay. Having an option of catching up eventually as each tier comes up shows of some sort of hope, as they will eventually catch up.
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I'll just comment here. Would you like to explain this lack of hope thing? Every single player that keeps their account active gets a vet reward every 3 months. Unless you can show the game is shutting down, every player will get their vet reward at the time specified.
Vet rewards are Thank you, not incentives. You seem to be ignoring or missing that for some reason. They could take all vet rewards out today and people will still play this game. Do you have proof the game will shut down if they did that?
PS - Like I said before since you seem to be hammering this out - read the OP and don't agree with any of it.
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Okay, it is just that 6 years might seem like a long way to go for new players, as what is the average life-span so far of a game like to be expected? |
Originally Posted by PennyPA
I'll just comment here. Would you like to explain this lack of hope thing? Every single player that keeps their account active gets a vet reward every 3 months. Unless you can show the game is shutting down, every player will get their vet reward at the time specified.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Vet rewards are Thank you, not incentives. You seem to be ignoring or missing that for some reason. They could take all vet rewards out today and people will still play this game. Do you have proof the game will shut down if they did that?
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
PS - Like I said before since you seem to be hammering this out - read the OP and don't agree with any of it.
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No clue, but what does that have to do with this game? GR around the corner. End Game has been mentioned. I see no indication of "closed doors" any time soon. If a game is crashing, it won't matter what they do for vet rewards since it won't be around. |
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Okay, it is just that 6 years might seem like a long way to go for new players, as what is the average life-span so far of a game like to be expected?
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| I am not ignoring or missing, I just think that it might be good to make them into both a reward and incentive. No, but as stated above, how long do we expect it to last really? |
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That is not what I am insinuating, I am insinuating that it could be both an incentive and reward.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
It has been mentioned before, but who are these players that play games for vet rewards? If the rest of the game is horrible, then no amount of vet rewards will make up for that.
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Hmm Lets look at it this way...
Vet Reward I do have...
39 Month Rewards
Ardent Badge
Costume Change Token given to all characters on account
Costume Pieces: Boxing Gloves, Champion (belt), Boxing Shorts, and Boxing (boots)
What Do I REALLY USE!
Well... Trench coat I use alot easy get... No wings don't play alot of angels and demons so... Um boxing gloves?
Really these are small potatoes I don't want to rush ahead to get the all the goodies because some of the Rewards are small things I never use.
Others are just a Free Respec useful yeah ... but not always considering we normally get one with each issue.
So do I want to PAY to get the next one NO. Do I need to have the next token power? Well the Buffing pets are cool but NO I do not need it. Do I want the 63 Month Rewards
Honorable Badge Inherent Power: Reveal Yes but chances are I won't use it often and can wait.
We get much better powers and goodies with the Booster packs. I rarely use the Vet rewards I have. Only one of my characters uses the Vet sprints. Now it is nice to use the Sands of Mu and the Wand/Staff in the early levels but later on they miss more then hit.
In other words Vet Rewards are cool but not GREAT. If I can get more by paying I would not spend a cent.
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You want an incentive program, suggest an incentive program. Trying to shoehorn it into Vet Rewards doesn't work.
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Mad_Cow_Milk should just be true: That is not what I am insinuating, I am insinuating that it could be both an incentive and reward. |
Dec out.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
That is not what I am insinuating, I am insinuating that it could be both an incentive and reward.
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I think this is where we differ. I consider vet rewards "fluff". Don't need them to play. I actually like the booster pack items more than vet rewards.
To be an incentive, then they will have to be greater than what they are now. (aka "I really, really, really want that X power or I can't play the game at all!).
What really matters (to me) is the game content. If GR is awful, and the end game requires you to run 50 person raids for 12 hrs a day or whatever, then, for me, I will quit no matter what incentive they add.
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Because I think they would be too similar. What ideas do you have?
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Originally Posted by Decorum
You want an incentive program, suggest an incentive program. Trying to shoehorn it into Vet Rewards doesn't work.
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None. I don't think there needs to be this type of incentive program and think Vet Rewards work fine just like they are.
Dec out.
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Actually that's not true. You have the same idea as the majority of the playerbase which is:|
Originally Posted by Decorum
None.
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Leave it alone. The vet reward system is working as intended and there is no need to make any changes to it.
And quite rightly so. I pointed out in my first post in this thread that a paid catch-up (the OPs first suggestion) was not an idea I'd support.
But I've not seen any comment from them about effectively starting a second stream of rewards from a more recent startpoint (as I interpret the OP's second suggestion).
I've never seen that idea suggested before and it does, IMO, have some merit to it.
Possibly not enough to make it worth doing by the devs, but that doesn't stop it having some.
If that specific form of amendment to the vets system has been suggested before then please link me to it.
If it hasn't been suggested before (or discounted by the devs) then it should be open for civil discussion/debate, regardless of whether or not the first suggestion has been rejected and flogged to death.
i.e. Please forget about the buying vets rewards bit and tell me if the idea of a parallel stream of subscription-time-based rewards taking now(ish) as a start point has been suggested before?
And if not: does it have any merit?
Think of it this way:
Last year the devs did the loyalty program for a badge and guaranteed entry to a tier of GR beta (assuming goodstanding).
What if they'd also tied a costume piece to the badge...
What if they then did another loyalty scheme starting after the last one ended for accounts subbed for 3 months... with a badge...
What if they repeated it again... and maybe gave a badge and a minor QoL temp power...
Now what if, having done this, the devs weren't coming up with stellar new vets rewards - just giving costume tokens, respec, annual slot, badges with the odd permatemp power or pet (given out once a year)...
For players who started on or before the loyalty program started, that would be practically indistinguishable from the OPs second suggestion.
(Okay - the OPs time scale is more like the vets reward in that it would be months subbed after the start date rather than having to maintain a sub between dd/mm/yyyy and DD/MM/YYYY to get reward X)
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