Iz serious busyness.
And, actually, some of them points I agree with. Namely being fobbed off with a 'Soon' when we ask, beg or plead for any information on this super secret space moonbase project to keep the EU servers from falling into oblivion.
And I dont mean the Xbox game.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Tros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, Gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
Bore da
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Hi, im a former EU player
The EU is unfortunatly a minority market, one which could no longer support the brighton offices.
The EU server populations aren't exactly low, some of the US servers have comparable numbers, its just theres more of them.
Sure, a server list merge would be nice, but wont likely fix population problems on your servers, in fact it will make them worse, as people move to the higher populated few US servers.
A more likely outcome will be the account transfer that was given to the Korean players when it was decided their population wouldnt support the game.
Box sets in the EU would also have been nice, but there is a major logistics issue here. Europe is not one country, nor does it have just one language. Shipping things from one side of the states to the other is far easier, and cheaper, than shipping it to, and through, the EU. Then theres the language localisation to think of.
"so advertise the game more!" i hear.
Again, advertising costs, and would have to be done in multiple languages, depending on which countries the advertising runs. Advertising in just english would restrict the advertising to the UK and ireland, which are only part of the player base.
Lets estimate the advertising draws an extra 20% of players to the EU... will that 20% pay off in the long run for advertising? taking note that this is for the area that could no longer support the localised office to handle the advertising in the first place.
NCsoft doesn't ignore the UE, they just had to move your support in with the US support to cut costs, so now you're standing in line with a lot more people, so things arent as direct as they were back when bridger and co were around.
You're now X% of the total player base, not 100% of the EU, so your attention should be around the same as any other X%
That being said, i hope that whatever issue it is that is currently plagueing the EU folks, is dealt with soon
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Good post!|
Originally Posted by Big_Lunk_NA
Hi, im a former EU player
The EU is unfortunatly a minority market, one which could no longer support the brighton offices. The EU server populations aren't exactly low, some of the US servers have comparable numbers, its just theres more of them. Sure, a server list merge would be nice, but wont likely fix population problems on your servers, in fact it will make them worse, as people move to the higher populated few US servers. A more likely outcome will be the account transfer that was given to the Korean players when it was decided their population wouldnt support the game. Box sets in the EU would also have been nice, but there is a major logistics issue here. Europe is not one country, nor does it have just one language. Shipping things from one side of the states to the other is far easier, and cheaper, than shipping it to, and through, the EU. Then theres the language localisation to think of. "so advertise the game more!" i hear. Again, advertising costs, and would have to be done in multiple languages, depending on which countries the advertising runs. Advertising in just english would restrict the advertising to the UK and ireland, which are only part of the player base. Lets estimate the advertising draws an extra 20% of players to the EU... will that 20% pay off in the long run for advertising? taking note that this is for the area that could no longer support the localised office to handle the advertising in the first place. NCsoft doesn't ignore the UE, they just had to move your support in with the US support to cut costs, so now you're standing in line with a lot more people, so things arent as direct as they were back when bridger and co were around. You're now X% of the total player base, not 100% of the EU, so your attention should be around the same as any other X% That being said, i hope that whatever issue it is that is currently plagueing the EU folks, is dealt with soon |
There are a few things I have to say about this though;
First of all, Yes I know that some of the us servers are lower in population then Defiant and/or Union. However, the players on this server do so by choice as they could easily server transfer to the populated freedom server. We Europeans on the other hand dont have this choice. The same goes for the server merge, those staying behind on Defiant or Union after the server merge do so by choice.
Sure an account transfer would work, but the big difference between the Korean and the European community was in the fact that the Korean Community wasnt even out of a beta for a month so they didnt loose a whole lot and got 5 free months back for their lost month (they got a 6 month pass for the american servers).
We on the other hand would loose veteran rewards, characters etc.
Second, the shipping issue; I don't see where the problem lies.
I mean, WoW can be found all over Europe.
Lotro can be found all over Europe.
And theres plenty of more mmo's I can name.
It might be more difficult but it is certainly not impossible.
Third, Advertising.
Most of Western Europe speaks decent English.
English advertising could be used in most of Western Europe.
I'm not even talking about city size billboards here.
Ncsoft could contact major local game magazines for advertisements on their magazine.
(Pc Gameplay for the Netherlands/Belgium, Pc gamer for the Uk, Gunk for Belgium etc)
It would actually be easyer since they can directly have contact with these people themselves, instead of having to go trough several channels.
Heck, I buy pc gameplay each month and every month theres at least 3 or 4 page wide advertisements for a game, some of which aren't even from a rich developer.
Fourth, just because they moved us in with the Americans doesnt mean we aren't proving for their salary anymore.
I can't help but think that part of going rogue has been financed by the money us Europeans have payed, and how we are not only missing out on 2 boxsets in a row, but also miss out on pre order items (unless we pay for them if they ever release it in a pack) and by missing out on that theres is now a gap in content between the 2 continents.
All the european community is asking is some OFFICIAL answers on our issue.
Not stuff like; it is being looked into etc.
We CAN'T do anything with that, especially since we have been getting that for months now.
Questions about War Witch's population solution that was hinted in the 6th anniversary go unanswered.
Questions why we don't get a Going Rogue boxset go unanswered.
Questions as to why they can't just reverse the NA-EU transfer that was done around the EU launch go unanswered.
We get about 1 red name post a month.
Sorry for the long read but there is a big issue here, and it is being ignored by ncsoft for months and months and months.
[QUOTE]Questions about War Witch's population solution that was hinted in the 6th anniversary go unanswered.
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| but we are looking at designing an in-game system that will help solve the problem |
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| Questions why we don't get a Going Rogue boxset go unanswered. |
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| Next up: the box. This is a big issue and I know some of you are pretty cheesed about it. So here is the information I got (which shouldn’t come as a surprise, really): because the game is online, and our consumers are predominantly online, it makes business sense to distribute online. Most MMO gamers in the EU are very net savvy and comfortable purchasing/downloading online. So NCsoft sells online because that is how more and more people are buying games, and we do get most of our new players from online distribution. There are boxes on the shelves in the U.S. because, from a distribution perspective, there is more demand here—a much lower percentage of people in the US have broadband compared to the EU. (I didn't know that part.) Plus online distribution and production is much less complicated in the US, with only a single language version and a handful of major retailers and distributors, versus three languages and dozens of distributors in Europe. So there are no plans for a box on shelves in EU, but you will see Going Rogue available soon in a variety of digital stores across Europe. |
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| Questions as to why they can't just reverse the NA-EU transfer that was done around the EU launch go unanswered. |
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| We get about 1 red name post a month. |
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| You're now X% of the total player base, not 100% of the EU, so your attention should be around the same as any other X% |
You have 10 children, you give 9 children a luxury lifestyle and the 1 remaining child, you give enough for them to survive.
Sorry if i seem to moan a lot about this kind of thing btw
Passionate moaner here people!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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| Questions about War Witch's population solution that was hinted in the 6th anniversary go unanswered. |
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| but we are looking at designing an in-game system that will help solve the problem |
For all we know this is a system that will never see the light of day.
Kinda like Items of Power, Base Raids and the CoP.
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| Next up: the box. This is a big issue and I know some of you are pretty cheesed about it. So here is the information I got (which shouldnt come as a surprise, really): because the game is online, and our consumers are predominantly online, it makes business sense to distribute online. Most MMO gamers in the EU are very net savvy and comfortable purchasing/downloading online. So NCsoft sells online because that is how more and more people are buying games, and we do get most of our new players from online distribution. There are boxes on the shelves in the U.S. because, from a distribution perspective, there is more demand herea much lower percentage of people in the US have broadband compared to the EU. (I didn't know that part.) Plus online distribution and production is much less complicated in the US, with only a single language version and a handful of major retailers and distributors, versus three languages and dozens of distributors in Europe. So there are no plans for a box on shelves in EU, but you will see Going Rogue available soon in a variety of digital stores across Europe. |
Europe might have more broadband, but there is still plenty of gamers who don't touch the whole digital distribution scene and just buy their games in a store the old fashioned way.
They are zeroing out potentional players by this.
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| You have 10 children, you give 9 children a luxury lifestyle and the 1 remaining child, you give enough for them to survive. |
It is only natural that the european community is, pissed off, to say the least.
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I know this has been said before, but it must be reiterated.|
Originally Posted by rpgguy
Fourth, just because they moved us in with the Americans doesnt mean we aren't proving for their salary anymore.
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We don't pay the saleries of those working at Paragon Studios. We pay NCSoft to have access to the game that Paragon Studios developes. Paragon has the developers on a fixed salery that'll continue whether we pay NCSoft or not. The only thing our money is good for is letting NCSoft decide if the game is profitable enough for them to continue funding the Paragon Project.
Paragon Studios is under the will of the En-Cee logo.
Edit: Got rid of a pointless sentence.
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| ...but we are looking at designing an in-game system that will help solve the problem. |
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Originally Posted by rpgguy
I would hardly call this an answer, not only was this what was announced in the anniversary briefing. It doesn't say anything about the how, when and where we've been asking about.
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War Witch wants to have something to tell us, but she currently doesn't have anything. She's just reassuring us that the moment she does have something to tell, it's ours to know.
To be fair, I get the above statement about Paragon Studios and NCSoft, however I still think that the treatment of this “minority market” is somewhat unfair.
As a customer I feel slightly ripped off in what I consider value for money compared to NA players. My subscription is the same of course.
For example as someone who loves alts, I have paid out around $60 to have extra slots. This is because I have only 2 English servers to choose from, where as NA players have 11. Imagine the position of the French and German players who only have one. Hardly fair is it?
NA gets boxed releases giving their community a chance to grow and develop, the EU has nothing on the shelves and therefore players like myself have to stand around and watch our servers slowly die without any real hope of any potential improvement. Also as someone said, not every EU resident has great broadband, so downloading the client (as we don’t have a boxed edition) can be a mammoth task, especially for a potential new player.
I love running teams but struggling to get a team together of more than 4 or 5 on many occasions (peak times) is disheartening (yes I use the popular channels). It’s all very well being able to have toons on 11 servers, meaning you are almost certain to find some action somewhere, imagine if you only had two or even one server to choose from!!
When the Brighton team was in full force we had player events/ meet and greets etc. now nada.
Now it seems that that pre-order bonuses with be US only, yes this is no bid deal – but it’s the principle.
The solution?
1)Work out the difficulties and merge the servers.
2)If this is not possible in the short term then reduce our subs until some sense of fairness/parity can be achieved.
Despite being the most passionate gaming community I’ve been involved with, it seems the EU community counts for nothing other than being fobbed off from time to time.
Yes no doubt some smart a*#e will tell me to quit and make a US account and stop moaning, but why should I give up all my stuff and what friends do remain in the game?
I wonder if the NA player-base was disadvantaged in someway, what the reaction would be.
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This is probably the biggest point you can make. And I completely agree with it.
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Originally Posted by Night_Hornet
For example as someone who loves alts, I have paid out around $60 to have extra slots. This is because I have only 2 English servers to choose from, where as NA players have 11. Imagine the position of the French and German players who only have one. Hardly fair is it?
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I want to bet all my 50s on it by saying if it was the other way around (the european community was thriving, the american one dying) that a solution would have been implemented within a month at the most.|
Originally Posted by Night_Hornet
I wonder if the NA player-base was disadvantaged in someway, what the reaction would be. |
Heck i'd even see it possible they'd still close the european servers and have us all play on the american ones.
Yet, since it is the other way around they dont care.
Ncsoft sees the European community as nothing more but a mine to drain as much as they can from before closing it all toghether.
As Night_Hornet has stated, I to think that it is unfair we have to pay the same amount as the Americans, but get less content, less interaction (developer->community and vice versa), less player slots, less servers and worst of all; empty zones even in peak times.
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Despite being the most passionate gaming community Ive been involved with, it seems the EU community counts for nothing other than being fobbed off from time to time. Yes no doubt some smart a*#e will tell me to quit and make a US account and stop moaning, but why should I give up all my stuff and what friends do remain in the game? |
We dont want to give up our account that has had months if not years of gameplay put into it.
I am not willing to believe that a server transfer from the EU to the US with keeping everything intact can not be done, because it has been done the other way around in the past.
So the technology is there!
All they need to do is reverse the process.
If that goes at the cost of bases, sg's, influence/infamy, global and friends so be it.
As long as characters and veteran rewards remain intact.
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| War Witch wants to have something to tell us, but she currently doesn't have anything. She's just reassuring us that the moment she does have something to tell, it's ours to know. |
Whenever there is an issue we always hear that there is nothing to say about it at the moment but it is being looked into.
It is nice to hear that it is being looked into but all it does it create false hope because people will be waiting for something that might take a long time, if it will ever come out.
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You've probably been told that by vocal members of the playerbase, or the NCSoft Customer Support. They are not the developers.|
Originally Posted by rpgguy
i've been told countless of times to just move to the american servers or stop whining.
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Originally Posted by rpgguy
But you forget one thing, this is the attitude that the european community has to deal with every single moment.
Whenever there is an issue we always hear that there is nothing to say about it at the moment but it is being looked into. It is nice to hear that it is being looked into but all it does it create false hope because people will be waiting for something that might take a long time, if it will ever come out. |
B.) "It's not false hope until you've given up the hope you had."
I have a good bet that it does, in fact, bother the developers that a portion of their playerbase is upset. Don't start raving about how you're the ugly duckling and that you're going to be voted out of the pond. Don't be like the band of PvPers that up and left. Their leaving is what made the decision to put PvP on the backburner. Why? Because the change would cater to no one. If you give up on them, they'll do the same.
They can shut the EU servers when they pry 'em from our cold, dead fingers ¬¬
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I agree with this 100% and I can feel your empathy FL, but no player-base will be patient indefinitely.|
Originally Posted by Fire Lilly
I have a good bet that it does, in fact, bother the developers that a portion of their playerbase is upset. Don't start raving about how you're the ugly duckling and that you're going to be voted out of the pond. Don't be like the band of PvPers that up and left. Their leaving is what made the decision to put PvP on the backburner. Why? Because the change would cater to no one. If you give up on them, they'll do the same.
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I wish to make it clear that I'm not crying "victim" here, I love this game and I'm only posting because I care about it and the EU community.
I am happy that the devs do post, but lately it's just words and the net result may well be more EU players leaving. I'm sad to say that some of my best in-game friends have left in the past year.
I guess they're waiting to see what effect GR will have on our population, but without some action instead of a portion of their player-base upset they could eventually end up with a portion less of their player-base.
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GGRRR Comic Series GGRRR Comics on Facebook
Ugh... Threads like this...
Put it this way, I'd debating between going "Needs moar entitlement!" or "Cry me a river." Seriously, despite what the Internet may have taught you, snark and sarcasm do not actually make your point stronger and do not make people get your requests processed faster.
Furthermore, General Discussions is NOT a US reservation-only location, since the forums are no longer location segregated. If you feel constrained in the EU forums, then you have only yourself to blame for constraining yourself there. The only reason people asked for it was because people wanted a place to themselves. Well, you got it, and now you're not happy with it being just by yourselves. Um... Sorry?
And, yeah, go ahead and accuse me of bias because I own the US version. I still live in Eastern Europe.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hmm, since I'm receiving less of a service than the US Game, can I have my monthly fee reduced please?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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I can only imagine that you are replying to the OP. As the only "snark and sarcasm" that I see in this thread beyond that is in your post. Rpgguy is clearly not happy about things EU, a view shared by at least some of that community.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Ugh... Threads like this...
Put it this way, I'd debating between going "Needs moar entitlement!" or "Cry me a river." Seriously, despite what the Internet may have taught you, snark and sarcasm do not actually make your point stronger and do not make people get your requests processed faster. Furthermore, General Discussions is NOT a US reservation-only location, since the forums are no longer location segregated. If you feel constrained in the EU forums, then you have only yourself to blame for constraining yourself there. The only reason people asked for it was because people wanted a place to themselves. Well, you got it, and now you're not happy with it being just by yourselves. Um... Sorry? And, yeah, go ahead and accuse me of bias because I own the US version. I still live in Eastern Europe. |
My posts I feel are fair and fairness was actually the point of them. As for getting requests processed faster lol what requests are they processing?
Bias nope, but if you wish to make a counter point, then please do...
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GGRRR Comic Series GGRRR Comics on Facebook
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This isn't about the forums, it's about the game servers.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If you feel constrained in the EU forums, then you have only yourself to blame for constraining yourself there.
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The EU game servers are on life-support (if not actually undead) and a lot of EU players would be very happy to see them somehow rolled into the NA server farm.
Some EU players - myself included - have all but given up waiting for NCSoft to do anything other than wait for them to die and have simply helped that along by moving to the NA servers with a new account, leaving characters, vet rewards and paid-for booster codes behind.
Which is slightly annoying, given we're paying for the same game.
The most tragic thing for me is I waited the best part of a year for the EU version of CoH to arrive, thinking we'd have less lag and better service - I was wrong on both counts.
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Yes, I was replying to the OP. I neglected to put in a quote.|
Originally Posted by Night_Hornet
I can only imagine that you are replying to the OP. As the only "snark and sarcasm" that I see in this thread beyond that is in your post. Rpgguy is clearly not happy about things EU, a view shared by at least some of that community.
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| My posts I feel are fair and fairness was actually the point of them. As for getting requests processed faster lol what requests are they processing? |
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| Bias nope, but if you wish to make a counter point, then please do... |
However, I see complaints of lack of forum activity on the EU forums, which is actually made by PLAYERS going there, making me wonder why other European players felt the need to have "their own" forum when that's pretty much what I expected to happen to it. I simply instantly lose respect for complaints, even when they may be valid, when they come off as a snarky rant.
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Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
The EU game servers are on life-support (if not actually undead) and a lot of EU players would be very happy to see them somehow rolled into the NA server farm.
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| The most tragic thing for me is I waited the best part of a year for the EU version of CoH to arrive, thinking we'd have less lag and better service - I was wrong on both counts. |
THAT you can blame on PlayNC, because they basically conned people into switching to the EU version, and I don't know why. That's not even the extent of it. They keep forcing localisation in EVERYTHING. The PlayNC Store always defaults me to the EU version, offering me booster packs that I can't apply on my game, as if trying to trick me into ripping myself off. We made a stink before, so they added Game Title (Europe) to the end of each title so we know what we're buying, but there isn't even THAT any more. All the new booster packs are titled as just their name, with the only clue they're EU being that they're priced in Euros. And there isn't even the "US Version Also Available" link on them, either. I had to wait for a US player to post a PlayNC Store link before I could order mine.
And now the main site constantly redirects me to the EU version despite me owning the US one, showing me server status for servers I don't have access to. And to make matters worse, the little flag at the top didn't use to work at all until we made a stink about it.
Dear Lord, people! Enough with the localisation crap!
OK... I kind of agree with you here
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No, I never have and I never will, I realise I am just a customer here and of course have no say at all in what they do. However as a customer I would like expectations, if indeed the answer is none then at least I can make an informed decision as to whether I should move stateside or perhaps even think about something else.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Even if the answer is "none," do you feel like snark and trying to tell them who pays their salaries will increase that?
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| There's no counterpoint to make. I sympathise with the plight of the EU side of the game. I knew it was a huge mistake as soon as I heard about it, and I had to turn down several offers to move to the EU side of the game. They were really recruiting back then, but there wasn't any point. There has never been any point. That much ought to be obvious now. |
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| However, I see complaints of lack of forum activity on the EU forums, which is actually made by PLAYERS going there, making me wonder why other European players felt the need to have "their own" forum when that's pretty much what I expected to happen to it. I simply instantly lose respect for complaints, even when they may be valid, when they come off as a snarky rant. |
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I just thought I'd pipe in to say that the OP by no means represents the EU community as a whole. I'm a happy EU player who doesn't really share the feelings of the OP.
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My point precisely. Questions as to the point of the European Lounge notwithstanding, OF COURSE you will get low traffic there, as European players will obviously post elsewhere, too. It's like the old CoV board. Only villain players really went to the CoV boards, whereas both hero AND villain players went to the CoH board, so of course to CoV one was barren and empty. And not only will people naturally gather where people gather already, but you had the double-whammy of pissy CoV players insulting you when you went there, as though playing heroes makes me some kind of pariah who is incapable of comprehending their deep emotional turmoil.|
Originally Posted by Night_Hornet
I think the OP was just trying to raise awareness of something they felt strongly about, as for the forums, lots of EU players post just not always in the European Lounge as one of the advantages of the merge was that we can all post together.
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That's kind of what bugs me here. Yes, this is a low-popularity issue both because EU population is lower in general (a vicious circle, I admit) and because EU players do more than just post about it. So you REALLY don't want to add insult to injury by throwing around bad attitudes and presumptuous accusations. I would never try to shut a disaffected customer up, but I honestly don't this has the effect you hope it will if it generates responses like "Not sure if serious."
The worst thing you can do with a legitimate complaint is present it in such a way that makes you come off as a troll, and believe me - this is the LAST thing the EU problem needs right now.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Thanks Night_Hornet, you're pretty much summing up what I would have replied to Samuel_Tow.
The whole problem here Samuel_Tow, is that ncsoft marketed a game that when it went live was promised to be identical in expirience to the american one.
It was made so the European community (which was quite big at the time) on the American server had a place to call home.
Over the years not only has the expirience changed, it has been made not identical.
With GR there is a gap in content, we get less marketing, and ncsoft is doing zero to improve it for us.
I am quite aware that the developers and ncsoft are 2 different persons, and I need to correct myself: whenever in this thread I mention the developers I mean ncsoft, so I mean the distributors.
I know paragon studios isnt responsible for the servers, ncsoft is.
As for the forum issue, I was simply pointing out that you can see lack of activity on our game forums as opposed to the american sections.
I know not everyone posts on the forum but it is a good impression as to why we have player issues.
Samuel_Tow, I feel that, since you're playing on the US server, you can not truly know what the current state of the european servers is (them being on life support is stating it lightly) until you have an account here and find out our issues for yourself.
Hi, I am a European City of Heroes player.
Our community is here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=601
You outa check it out sometimes!
See where the money that is financing part of your going rogue boxset is coming from!
See all the nice threads how your ncsoft is dealing with us Europeans.
See the same old red name excuses we get about once per month.
See the AMAZING speed at which our forums move. The last thread on page 1 is only from May First! WOW. YES!
The european community is looking forward to seeing you!