EPIC @20 is just stupid
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2010-06-01 10:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
*Grabs popcorn*
Use /search next time, though. Seriously, this has been done to death already.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Personally I think a bad player will play any AT bad. Just because they have a so-called "Epic AT", that doesn't make them any worse a player, and the Epic ATs aren't that hard to play. Kheldians don't really require any awareness of Quantums any more, they aren't really a threat, and IMHO SoA aren't hard to play at all...
Besides, all those Epics ATs you're seeing around now are from the MA.
you mention the counter argument in your post. putting the "carrot" of the epic at's just encouraged people to pl to 50 to unlock them. they still had no idea how to play their characters. The reward at 50(before we find out what the incarnate system is) is having enjoyed playing a character for the time it took to get to 50, that is why this is a game, if you need incentivized to play to 50 then you might not be enjoying the game.
Eh. Tell me, what's the worst that can happen? I'll tell you, I teamed with a kheldian who had no idea what they were doing. As soon as any fight started, they seemed to be on the floor; they had just started, and thought because their human form had shields they could tank. As soon as my tank had aggro, she's dwarf. But yeah, human/squid rush before.
...And you know what? I'd seen people do the same faceplanting on controllers. And defenders. And blasters. And scrappers. And dominators. And brutes. ...Oh wait...
Yup! It's true, there a new players, bad players, and hopefully they get better, learn as they go. such is the case with any multi-player game.
I would agree they are not hard to play, HOWEVER the EAT's are hard to play well.
Regardless if it has been said to death or not it needs to be re-said.
To use one of our 4 epics well, and to it's potential is a learned game skill. Perhaps not the VEAT's as much as kheldians. How many times have you run into a PB or WS who confirms thoughts that the hero Epics aren't that good? When in fact they are very good. I love to team with a well played kheld.
Statement about quant/void is valid, but i mean more in teams, and their role proper. This is obviously to bring in new blood to the game. rewards for reaching 2/5 towards the final level doesn't make any sense.
The Transcendent One
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
To quote myself from a previous discussion about it...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I personally like the idea. Like the devs said a long time ago, making "unlock at 50" ATs was a mistake. Since the VEATs must bypass the tutorial, it makes sense to make these unlockables, just not at such a high level.
I feel you shouldn't have to suffer through a grind just to play an AT you think is interesting. There are still six year vets who don't have level 50s. I feel "unlock at 50" sets the "epic" to mean "better than anything else" instead of "tied into lore." Less people will misunderstand this with a lower unlock threshold. Quote:
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Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I think someone here brought up the point that Masterminds have a much higher learning curve and they're basic ATs.
I don't see what the big deal is.
Actions speak louder than Vets.
If you don't have a basic grasp of the game by level 20 then you're probably never going to. The EATs don't need that much specialist knowledge to be effective. Personally I was rather pleased because I don't like playing most of the villain ATs but the EATs for them interested me for storyline purposes. Since I logged on with my level 40 after being away for 2 years I was pleased to see I could now have them.
ALL THE THINGS BEING SAID ARE VERY TRUE.
I agree with them all, a bad player is a bad player regardless. I guess for me, someone who has been playing a kheldian since issue 3, I hate seeing the early reward system. Perhaps I am more upset that it belittles what i have done, I don't know. but thanks for letting me vent about it 
The Transcendent One
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
Quote:
God knows I do. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Personally I think a bad player will play any AT bad.
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Quote:
heh, understood, but really try to avoid this mindset, it will drive you nuts, and its origins are really fairly petty. people pled to 50 after issue 3and we had as many knuckleheads with khelds then as we do now with the change. someone is going to be a good player or not, no prerequisite is going to ensure a quality player, they can all be circumvented, just play well and your skills will prove you earned your eat, as opposed to the dead kheld over there with all the MA badges.|
Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
ALL THE THINGS BEING SAID ARE VERY TRUE.
I agree with them all, a bad player is a bad player regardless. I guess for me, someone who has been playing a kheldian since issue 3, I hate seeing the early reward system. Perhaps I am more upset that it belittles what i have done, I don't know. but thanks for letting me vent about it |
EDIT for clarification. not saying you are petty, just the feeling is petty.
Quote:
Why would it make sense to keep a game unchanged for it's entire lifespan?|
Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
ALL THE THINGS BEING SAID ARE VERY TRUE.
I agree with them all, a bad player is a bad player regardless. I guess for me, someone who has been playing a kheldian since issue 3, I hate seeing the early reward system. Perhaps I am more upset that it belittles what i have done, I don't know. but thanks for letting me vent about it |
I just don't get it.
I would love to see them ditch the whole quant/void/cyst thing. Veats get along fine without them, I have seen kheld rufused invites becausethe leader didnt want to see any cysts in the TF.
I do think a lot of these newbies think they will get a EAT and instantly pwn face. Only to find that epic means harder to play properly. But rewarding when you figure out how. As for bad players, saw a defender that played just like a scrapper yesterday...only face planted a whole lot more than a scrapper. It was kind of sad.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
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Hey, we all have our moments. I was playing a new (to me) AT this weekend and faceplanted plenty of times. Part of the learning curve and the teams I was on were fun and laid back enough to where it did not matter. I even typed into chat "not on my scrapper not on my scrapper not on my scrapper".
Epics are available now and I have teamed with plenty. Some did well, some asked questions, and some did poorly. The ones that did well or asked questions seemed to hang with the PUG a bit longer than the ones who were not doing so well.
*shrug* I don't see the issue. There are been cluelsee EAT's for a long time now. People who PL'ed stright to 50 to unlock the them. It's been happening from the day the EAT's were introduced. It's nothing new. It's a tad easier now i suppose. And maybe if we see some modiest influx with GR, there be more noobs around sure, but the ones that take the team to accually play will learn, and the PL'ed noobs won't, just like always.
Guess what i'm saying is, a player who wants to learn can play any AT he puts his mind too. An instent gratification player won't. It's a mind set, not an arbetrary level or time investment.
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Quote:
Well, it now means new players are less likely to get themselves powerleveled to try out EAT's (which are shiny and denied to them, and hey, they want to try them)|
Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
First off, let me say that I understand there is a tie in between the lvl 20 for epic AT's and the GR expansion this summer.
However if the goal is to attract NEW blood to the game, the last thing I would think we want is to have a group of people who haven't even learned the intricacies of the first 5 AT's as well as the game play. So far over the past few weeks I have run into many epic AT low levels, and/or PL'd lvl 30/40+'s who have NO idea how to play their character, or how to team well. They alienate themselves due to not having any idea how to play. (not to mention giving epic AT's a bad name) TOO BAD that this system was placed, and too bad it can't be retro acted upon to go back to 50. GEEZ where is the 1st lvl 50 reward now???? |
I had a friend playing CoV and got bored fast of the standard AT's. He'd get as far as--oddly enough--level 20. Then he'd move on to another AT.
What he really wanted to try was my shiny VEAT Crab Spider I was teaming with him with. When he found out he had to have a level 50 to play it, he quit. He's a busy guy and doesn't play often enough to have a 50. If the EAT's unlocked at 20, he just might have stuck around longer.
Yes, it takes the shiny off what we earned by getting to 50. We still did it. More stuff is coming up in i19 for level 50's. Positron's endgame Incarnate system. There's your level 50 reward.
Don't want to wait for it? Heck, that's one of the reasons EAT's unlock at 20 now; for those that don't want to wait.
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--The Question, JLU
Just want to say that in my opinion no, the devs don't need to implement a first 50 reward.
Getting to 50 was reward enough for me and I had a great trip going there. Sometimes I wish I could do it again...(getting a first 50...not getting to 50...that is not really a goal anymore).
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@Lyrik
Agree'd
Glad to see the feedback on this one.
The Transcendent One
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)
Quote:
The only difference now, is that peope get to tell stories of how it took them 2+ years to get their first 50 to unlock the epics, versus those young wipper snappers who get them the first few days of playing.|
Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
First off, let me say that I understand there is a tie in between the lvl 20 for epic AT's and the GR expansion this summer.
However if the goal is to attract NEW blood to the game, the last thing I would think we want is to have a group of people who haven't even learned the intricacies of the first 5 AT's as well as the game play. So far over the past few weeks I have run into many epic AT low levels, and/or PL'd lvl 30/40+'s who have NO idea how to play their character, or how to team well. They alienate themselves due to not having any idea how to play. (not to mention giving epic AT's a bad name) TOO BAD that this system was placed, and too bad it can't be retro acted upon to go back to 50. GEEZ where is the 1st lvl 50 reward now???? |
Just because you've played every basic AT to 50, doesn't have anything to do with how good they'll play the epic ATs.
Matter of fact, the VEATS imo are the easiest Epics to play. They're ranged scrappers for the most part, who could be made to hold aggro if built for it.
Unlocking them at lvl 20 means nothing, other than "I had to wait to 50 so everyone else should." when this is brought up.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Perhaps we need an epic badge with associated accolade power and a costume piece (PB sash perhaps?)for the Khelds' nemis. Don't make it too easy though, make it truly epic, like perhaps 1000 Voids, Cysts, and Nictuses (perhaps not include normal enemies armed with quantum weapons though).|
Originally Posted by hedgehog_NA
I would love to see them ditch the whole quant/void/cyst thing. Veats get along fine without them, I have seen kheld rufused invites becausethe leader didnt want to see any cysts in the TF.
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And yes, villains can get these too, by teaming with Khelds in the War Zone or Cim.
And we do need a new reward for dinging 50. How about the ability to unlock another costume slot (it's high time to upgrade the costume select and ediit screens to support more than 5 editable costumes anyway.)
I don't really care that people can have the epics at 20, I just found if very odd when "Epic Archtype Unlocked" flashed on my screen when I dinged 20 on a new toon.
One thing I'll say though is that people are very lucky nowadays to have the VEATS. Imagine my dissapointment when I finally struggeled and got my very first toon, a brute, up to 50 after a long and debt filled climb to the top and to see those words flash on the screen: "Epic Archtype Unlocked" only to find myself still unable to play a PB or WS and people acting like I was stupid for asking why.
I'm all for anything that makes things more interesting for newer players. 20 does seem a bit premature for me, but whatever, I don't play any epics anyway. Let someone else play them sooner.
@Joshua.
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There you go. Pulled out all the blatant crap for you.
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Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
Look, I know this game is supposed to be about having fun and stuff, but letting people who haven't spent years developing an army of level 50 characters have access to the entire game makes me feel less special!
Recently, I keep running into people who play the game badly, and this interferes with my ability to feel proud of my ability to play a freaking video game. This makes me sad. How dare they let people have fun with my Gaming? Gaming is serious! SERIOUS I SAY! |
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Quote:
It doesn't belittle what you have done. Because honestly what you have done isn't that impressive. Getting to level 50 is not some grand accomplishment that requires great skill and time investment. It's actually quite a simple task. |
Originally Posted by Transcendent_One
ALL THE THINGS BEING SAID ARE VERY TRUE.
I agree with them all, a bad player is a bad player regardless. I guess for me, someone who has been playing a kheldian since issue 3, I hate seeing the early reward system. Perhaps I am more upset that it belittles what i have done, I don't know. but thanks for letting me vent about it |
Really what this comes down to is you whining because somebody got something easier than you did. Your best bet is to just get over it, because nobody cares and it is not gonna change.
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We haven't gotten any details yet, but it's almost 95% certain that Going Rogue will have new rewards for level 50s. Whether it's the "Incarnate" system or whatever they choose to call it. |
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
And we do need a new reward for dinging 50. How about the ability to unlock another costume slot (it's high time to upgrade the costume select and ediit screens to support more than 5 editable costumes anyway.)
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Honestly, if they'd introduced Incarnates from the beginning, as some sort of "Epic AT" that allows you to progress your 50s beyond 50, and the other Epic ATs were unlocked through some special mission or something, I'm sure no one would have batted an eye. It would even make more sense that way.
First off, let me say that I understand there is a tie in between the lvl 20 for epic AT's and the GR expansion this summer.
However if the goal is to attract NEW blood to the game, the last thing I would think we want is to have a group of people who haven't even learned the intricacies of the first 5 AT's as well as the game play.
So far over the past few weeks I have run into many epic AT low levels, and/or PL'd lvl 30/40+'s who have NO idea how to play their character, or how to team well. They alienate themselves due to not having any idea how to play. (not to mention giving epic AT's a bad name)
TOO BAD that this system was placed, and too bad it can't be retro acted upon to go back to 50. GEEZ where is the 1st lvl 50 reward now????
Level 50+ PB (Badge Count 1404)