So 3 minions=1 PC, right?
By
Barbie_Ink,
Posted on: 2010-05-21 18:57 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Change the difficulty settings to -1?
Not to mention "three minions=1 hero" has never really been true. 
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Me and my friend duo all the time, and higher level bosses aren't a problem if you use the right tactics. We're only level 7 at the moment, so if you're dying at level 19 with a friend, you're doing something wrong. Level 19 you should be able to solo bosses.
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What are you using and what are you fighting. Alot of builds can't handle purples as level 19.
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If your friends are jerks who are never around when you need them. |
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
P.S. Inspirations are your friend.
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OK, maybe I've forgotten...but didn't the old system have the sidekick at -1 to the mentor...or lower? So wasn't that leaving the sidekick facing worse level disparity against enemies?
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Originally Posted by Futurias
So exactly why is 1 Minion and 1 Boss considered balanced on duos?
Then you add +1 level to the primary mission holder... ...and your sidekick is suddenly facing off against a +2 (purple) Boss. Sorry, I'm just really frustrated with dying constantly as a sidekick at level 19 because of the 'new' mob difficulty that they implemented a few issues ago. It's no fun team wiping with your friend every two or three spawns. |
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With 3 different blasters I soloed Frostfire on unyielding setting with maybe one defeat to one of them so my thinking is when you raise settings you or the team have to raise their game. If that's a problem don't feel bad about it because everyones has run into problems at some point and it could be that the faction is particularly advantaged versus your characters.
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This, basically. Without knowing more detail, I call shenanigans.
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Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
Me and my friend duo all the time, and higher level bosses aren't a problem if you use the right tactics. We're only level 7 at the moment, so if you're dying at level 19 with a friend, you're doing something wrong. Level 19 you should be able to solo bosses.
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A couple of thoughts. First off, if you're wiping then obviously neither of you can handle the +1 setting so run at +0. There's nothing wrong with that.|
Originally Posted by Futurias
So exactly why is 1 Minion and 1 Boss considered balanced on duos?
Then you add +1 level to the primary mission holder... ...and your sidekick is suddenly facing off against a +2 (purple) Boss. Sorry, I'm just really frustrated with dying constantly as a sidekick at level 19 because of the 'new' mob difficulty that they implemented a few issues ago. It's no fun team wiping with your friend every two or three spawns. |
Second, look at your ATs your powers, and what enemies you are up against. If you're dark attacks and going after CoT who resist dark heavily and then on top of that have some of the nastiest powers in the low-level game well maybe that could be changed by running missions against Family. for instance.
What ATs and powersets are you running? What missions are you having trouble with?
Last how much accuracy do you have slotted?
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Enemies can still spawn at +1 to whatever your difficulty setting is, due to map settings or whatever it is. The setting is what effective level you count as, but it's not an absolute value for mob level.
True. But a duo fighting a +2 boss (+1 to one of the players) should be fine, unless the character who's sidekicked is level 3 or something.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It was a +1 (to the Mentor) Widow, which ended up being harder than the Elite Boss we had to fight.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
True. But a duo fighting a +2 boss (+1 to one of the players) should be fine, unless the character who's sidekicked is level 3 or something.
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He was a level 20 Blaster (and I happened to be a natural level 19, but still 'effectively' a sidekick) of a Warshade.
The only way that we defeated her was by mass inspirations eventually.
Still here, even after all this time!
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Actually, the lower level you are the weaker bosses are. Level 1 to 5 bosses barely have more hit points than lieuts. I use a custom AE arc with enemies locked to level 1 for my tanks and defenders to level up in since they are such high exp for so few hp. I strongly recommend it.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
True. But a duo fighting a +2 boss (+1 to one of the players) should be fine, unless the character who's sidekicked is level 3 or something.
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But in the 20s bosses have gotten quite tough.
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It was a +1 (to the Mentor) Widow, which ended up being harder than the Elite Boss we had to fight. He was a level 20 Blaster (and I happened to be a natural level 19, but still 'effectively' a sidekick) of a Warshade. The only way that we defeated her was by mass inspirations eventually. |
Are your primary attacks at 40%+ because if not, you really should tone down the level of your enemies. You want 50-60% accuracy to go up against +2s (depending on any tohit buffs such as the Kismet unique), and really don't want to try it with only "one" accuracy slotted, especially if it is a DO.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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That is the "mission pacing" as it is called in AE, but it applies to all missions. Depending on the pacing enemies can spawn at -1 to +1 from the difficulty chosen. So if you choose a +0 mission, you might still have rooms with +1 enemies and some with -1 enemies.
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Originally Posted by Barbie_Ink
Enemies can still spawn at +1 to whatever your difficulty setting is, due to map settings or whatever it is. The setting is what effective level you count as, but it's not an absolute value for mob level.
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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I was referring to a level 20 mentor with a level 3 sidekick fighting a level 21 boss. The sidekick will have trouble due to lack of powers, much less slots.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Actually, the lower level you are the weaker bosses are. Level 1 to 5 bosses barely have more hit points than lieuts. I use a custom AE arc with enemies locked to level 1 for my tanks and defenders to level up in since they are such high exp for so few hp. I strongly recommend it.
But in the 20s bosses have gotten quite tough. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Actually, most of my 22+ characters don't have 40%+ slotting to accuracy. That's usually fairly hard to do without some serious slotting which you really don't have available at that level.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Actually, the lower level you are the weaker bosses are. Level 1 to 5 bosses barely have more hit points than lieuts. I use a custom AE arc with enemies locked to level 1 for my tanks and defenders to level up in since they are such high exp for so few hp. I strongly recommend it.
But in the 20s bosses have gotten quite tough. I'm guessing the blinds were part of the problem. Also I'm still strongly suspecting neither of you have enough accuracy slotted. Are your primary attacks at 40%+ because if not, you really should tone down the level of your enemies. You want 50-60% accuracy to go up against +2s (depending on any tohit buffs such as the Kismet unique), and really don't want to try it with only "one" accuracy slotted, especially if it is a DO. |
I know some people hate to miss and slot way more accuracy than damage, but I've always 1acc+2-3damage, which generally works for most slots.
The part that is annoying is the sidekicking relic of -1. I don't really think that the developers have considered deeply entire missions or TFs with a -1 penalty for everyone but the leader can be quite frustrating and 'unfun' to be penalized.
I actually had this happen on an ITF. We only had one 50, everyone else was sidekicked to 49. It was quite a bit harder (we had a few team-wipes at times).
I'm positive that if everyone had actually been even-leveled with the 50, it would have been a much smoother experience (and probably would have been faster XP too.)
Still here, even after all this time!
I always do 2acc unless the power has a naturally higher ACC value. Most my attacks usually look like 2acc/3dam and then either endredux or rechredux or neither. Pre-DO's I don't slot for anything but accuracy. I don't think 2 acc is really "serious" slotting. At 22+ having 2 acc in every attack is fairly trivial, actually.
If you can't hit the enemy reliably then you're going to have moments where the RNG works against you and you're going to die, especially if you're going to be fighting higher level enemies. If you don't want too/can't slot more accuracy then lower your difficulty setting to compensate.
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This is only true if you're below the leader's level. Or more accurately, if you're more than 2 levels below the leader, your level is increased -- why are you complaining? If you're 1 level below the leader or equal to the leader, you're exactly where you were -- why are you complaining? If you're above the leader, you get lowered to the leader's level. I can understand complaining there, but you're also exactly matched to what the task's difficulty is... plus you can get up to 5 more levels' worth of powers that you keep anyway. (Plus you have more slotting opportunities.)
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Originally Posted by Futurias
I don't really think that the developers have considered deeply entire missions or TFs with a -1 penalty for everyone but the leader can be quite frustrating and 'unfun' to be penalized.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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And you still get inf/xp while being exemp'd, unlike how it used to be.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
This is only true if you're below the leader's level. Or more accurately, if you're more than 2 levels below the leader, your level is increased -- why are you complaining? If you're 1 level below the leader or equal to the leader, you're exactly where you were -- why are you complaining? If you're above the leader, you get lowered to the leader's level. I can understand complaining there, but you're also exactly matched to what the task's difficulty is... plus you can get up to 5 more levels' worth of powers that you keep anyway. (Plus you have more slotting opportunities.)
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You can set missions to -1 level now, so that's one option. But also you can have the lower level player be leader- and then both will be the same level.
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This looks like an invitation for my favorite speech about the joys of frankenslotting. =)|
Originally Posted by Futurias
Actually, most of my 22+ characters don't have 40%+ slotting to accuracy. That's usually fairly hard to do without some serious slotting which you really don't have available at that level.
I know some people hate to miss and slot way more accuracy than damage, but I've always 1acc+2-3damage, which generally works for most slots. |
So you have three slots and are level 22. Right now using SOs you could have 1 Acc, and 2 dam for 38% Acc/76% Damage while they're toop of the line, but they'll drop fast as you level.
Or you can slot (all level 25 same as the SOs):
Pulverizing Fisticuffs Acc/Dam/Rech, Focused Smite Acc/Dam/Rech, Acc/Dam
for: 52% Acc, 52% Dam, 32% Rech at level 22
The PF costs 74k to craft and maybe 10k in salvage. The FS cost 36k to craft and maybe 2k in salvage.
Level 25 SOs cost 29.9k with some variety per style and store.
You replace those SOs even once from a store and you're over the price of the sets.
You can play around with the options to get some end reduction, heavier damage, etc.
Also, these guys will always be higher bonuses and often cheaper than equivalent-level common IOs.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Actually, I thought TFs could not be lowered any more (but you can increase the difficulty)?|
Originally Posted by stfrn
You can set missions to -1 level now, so that's one option. But also you can have the lower level player be leader- and then both will be the same level.
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I'm not sure if the Imperious TF is a signature TF or not (so would not be less than 50th level) but there are a lot of TFs that are.
I really think the side-kicking being at -1 level is a hold over from the old framework, which is not meshing perfectly with the new difficulty changes (a +1 boss and +1 minion is considered a 'normal' spawn for duos... but there are some lower level duos that get totally chewed up by that.)
Still here, even after all this time!
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What happened to IOs not being required to play the game?
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
This looks like an invitation for my favorite speech about the joys of frankenslotting. =)
So you have three slots and are level 22. Right now using SOs you could have 1 Acc, and 2 dam for 38% Acc/76% Damage while they're toop of the line, but they'll drop fast as you level. Or you can slot (all level 25 same as the SOs): Pulverizing Fisticuffs Acc/Dam/Rech, Focused Smite Acc/Dam/Rech, Acc/Dam for: 52% Acc, 52% Dam, 32% Rech at level 22 The PF costs 74k to craft and maybe 10k in salvage. The FS cost 36k to craft and maybe 2k in salvage. Level 25 SOs cost 29.9k with some variety per style and store. You replace those SOs even once from a store and you're over the price of the sets. You can play around with the options to get some end reduction, heavier damage, etc. Also, these guys will always be higher bonuses and often cheaper than equivalent-level common IOs. |
Still here, even after all this time!
As far as 1 Hero/Villain = X minions / Y lieutenants etc, I seem to recall seeing something on the forums from either Castle or Positron that said effectively, this was the original intention for 'balancing', but now the balancing test is, "Is it fun?"
From the recent Dev Q&A:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218838
One of the original balance design goals was that a character should be roughly equivalent to 3 minions or a lieutenant and one minion. That no longer seems to be the goal. What is the design goal today with regard to balance in both PvE and PvP?
[Castle] / [Ghost Falcon] - The design goal is "Is it fun?"
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So exactly why is 1 Minion and 1 Boss considered balanced on duos?
Then you add +1 level to the primary mission holder...
...and your sidekick is suddenly facing off against a +2 (purple) Boss.
Sorry, I'm just really frustrated with dying constantly as a sidekick at level 19 because of the 'new' mob difficulty that they implemented a few issues ago.
It's no fun team wiping with your friend every two or three spawns.
Still here, even after all this time!