Okay, going to go through this again.
This would require that a new skeleton would be made, specifically for your size cat that you want. One that has four legs, and would somehow be able to hold things like swords and axes somewhere in those legs.
Now, let's say that each AT has 5 powersets (since ATs duplicate powersets, specifically over primaries/secondaries, but this is still a pretty lowball number). That is 25 powersets per side, or 50 powersets. Include the EATs, and it's 58 powersets.
Now, let's say that there are 8 powers per set that would need animating for the new skeleton. This is to include things like Build Up, which wouldn't need much to go from one set to another, but probably does not include the EATs' extended sets. So, that is 464 powers.
Now, we also need to include power pools. 4 powers per pool, for 10 pools, or 40 more powers, for a total of 504 powers. Now, assuming that you don't care if the cat skeleton is made boy or girl, then we still need 2 animations done per power (one for on the ground, one for in the air). So, we're up to 1,008 animations that need to be re-done, PER skeleton that is put in the game.
Let's compare that to a typical new set. 9 powers, 3 skeletons, 2 animations per. 54 animations per powerset.
At that rate, you could create 18.7 new powersets in the same time that you create one new skeleton.
That doesn't seem worth it to me.
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I think the closest we might get would be if the devs implemented new stances like CO has. The one I'm thinking of allows the character to run on all fours like an animal.
Thank-you for your response. You bring up some valid points.
However, some of your animation numbers can be greatly reduced. For instance, a cat model would not have access to things like swords or axes nor to the Widow or Arachnos Soldier ATs. We're talking about a cat, *not* a catgirl.
I'm certain that, were the Devs to implement such a model, they would probably limit access to certain ATs. At the very least, certain powers would not have animations. An animal model *could* be used for a character with Dual Blades, for instance, but it would appear that the character is using their Dual Claws instead.
There's no doubt that it *would* take a good bit of animation and character model development time, but I believe it would be a very nice addition to the game. After all, aren't CoH/CoV known for a high degree of customization?
It'd be nice to have things like skins for cats, dogs, monkeys, etc. I believe that some current art assets could be used or modified.
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That would be nice, but we'd still have the appearance of a 4' tall catgirl running on all fours, rather than a cat doing that.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think the closest we might get would be if the devs implemented new stances like CO has. The one I'm thinking of allows the character to run on all fours like an animal.
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Despite what *some* people in Atlas might think/say, cats and catgirls are *not* the same thing.
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Oh, you might not want that... someone else will. And how do we decide what animals to give priority to? Even halving what Aett calculated is 500 animations per skeleton... you've listed 3, I would also say what about things like horses and centaurs, thats 1500 for you, 1000 for me, where do we stop?|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
However, some of your animation numbers can be greatly reduced. For instance, a cat model would not have access to things like swords or axes nor to the Widow or Arachnos Soldier ATs. We're talking about a cat, *not* a catgirl. |
That's not to say I wouldn't like this, but i'm not sure the workload would be worth the payoff.
...no. This is City of Heroes, which implies at least partially humanoid as most heroes have been throughout comics.
The non-humanoid ones have almost invariably been pets/minor sidekicks/minions.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Aett might be the Hitler of Stop Signs... but he's right in this case.
As for limiting powersets to models: Night Impossible. You choose powersets and AT before you choose your character model because the model is (almost entirely) Aesthetic, rather than functional. The system was never designed to handle model-lockout, so you'd wind up having to go through THAT mess of work on top of the giant animation change list which only included powers. It didn't include hold, stun, flight, jump, death on the ground and in the air, emotes, vomiting (for the poison holds and such) and all the various other animations required. Like Running.
-Rachel-
And then, when they implemented my "rat" skeleton, he would have to be immune to all of the poison/vomiting holds since rats can't vomit....
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Sometimes, even they got to shine...! Krypto (who was Superboy's pet/sidekick) has had his own Saturday Morning show..|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
...no. This is City of Heroes, which implies at least partially humanoid as most heroes have been throughout comics.
The non-humanoid ones have almost invariably been pets/minor sidekicks/minions. |
Then there was the Legion of SuperPets (which did have a couple of stories in the fities/sixties as I recall..)
And then there are cats..Streaky was Supergirl's sidekick, but the furball got to star in his own stories sometimes...
(all cited examples are from DC's silver age of comics, although Krypto's cartoon show was just in this decade...)
The devs don't have to include every last creature model..Just the more common land bound ones, like cats and dogs...And what's wrong with Amerikatt (for example) having the human power animations...all they would have to do is have her run and walk like a cat..She might not be able to use ninja run, though.
It would mean a new category in the body types (Let's call it animal) where you could chose cat, dog, large dog (or wolf) and large cat (or tiger). No sex in this category for aesthetic reasons..(and the differences between male and female aren't always that pronounced). Jay would probably have a field day adding in things like claws, fur colors and patterns, collars, ears, teeth (for the sabertooth tiger or werewolves among us). Some of these items, like the fur colors and patterns, ears, and tails are already in the system, although they might have to be expanded on. Costumes could also be added, just import the costumes from the humans..(for those who like clothing on their critters or at least a supercape).
Personally, I'd love to roll up a shapechanger who could turn into a cat or dog when not at 'work'. However, I don't see this happening as super pets have fallen out of favor....
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Except that the human animations wouldn't work with a cat. Picture a cat. Now, have it swing an axe. Would it look the same as a human doing so? No. It has different physiology. Even it walking would be different from a biped. |
Originally Posted by DemonCaller
The devs don't have to include every last creature model..Just the more common land bound ones, like cats and dogs...And what's wrong with Amerikatt (for example) having the human power animations...all they would have to do is have her run and walk like a cat..She might not be able to use ninja run, though. |
Even if you gave it the same animations as the current human skeletons, each animation would STILL need to be redone for it. You couldn't just port them over. You'd need to create the animation for the new skeleton.
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| It would mean a new category in the body types (Let's call it animal) where you could chose cat, dog, large dog (or wolf) and large cat (or tiger). No sex in this category for aesthetic reasons..(and the differences between male and female aren't always that pronounced). Jay would probably have a field day adding in things like claws, fur colors and patterns, collars, ears, teeth (for the sabertooth tiger or werewolves among us). Some of these items, like the fur colors and patterns, ears, and tails are already in the system, although they might have to be expanded on. Costumes could also be added, just import the costumes from the humans..(for those who like clothing on their critters or at least a supercape). |
And this is still not taking into consideration how much payoff the Devs would get from this effort.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Thank-you for your response. You bring up some valid points.
However, some of your animation numbers can be greatly reduced. For instance, a cat model would not have access to things like swords or axes nor to the Widow or Arachnos Soldier ATs. We're talking about a cat, *not* a catgirl. I'm certain that, were the Devs to implement such a model, they would probably limit access to certain ATs. At the very least, certain powers would not have animations. An animal model *could* be used for a character with Dual Blades, for instance, but it would appear that the character is using their Dual Claws instead. There's no doubt that it *would* take a good bit of animation and character model development time, but I believe it would be a very nice addition to the game. After all, aren't CoH/CoV known for a high degree of customization? It'd be nice to have things like skins for cats, dogs, monkeys, etc. I believe that some current art assets could be used or modified. |
Uh-oh . . . The OP's arguments are starting to take on a distinctive KittyCrusader flavor.
Unless the devs make a new epic archetype based on an animal skeleton you will never see them create a new skeleton that doesn't have access to all powersets.
Someone should PM this to BABs. Make sure you have War Witch or someone handy with a camera phone to snap a pic of him running screaming from the building. 
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Better yet have them tell BAB's it's going to be part of a new Underwater Zone, but make sure the gun in his desk is unloaded first. |
Originally Posted by RemianenI
Someone should PM this to BABs. Make sure you have War Witch or someone handy with a camera phone to snap a pic of him running screaming from the building.
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No, actually "hero" in no way implies human or even humanoid. Just off the top of my head, take Ben 10 for example. Half of the stuff he turns into is completely incompatible with the human framework. His Spider Monkey has four arms, as does his Four-Arms, for that matter, his Stinkfly has four (or was it six?) legs and a worklike body, his ghost freak is a traditional "tail-end" ghost, his goop is... Well, a puddle of goo with eyes. What else? His Brainstorm is basically a giant crab with an oversized brain. His Wildmutt has a canine body. And that's off the top of my head, on one character.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
...no. This is City of Heroes, which implies at least partially humanoid as most heroes have been throughout comics.
The non-humanoid ones have almost invariably been pets/minor sidekicks/minions. |
And Ben 10 is hardly the only one who transforsm. I can just as easily name Beast Boy and have roughly the same effect. Or, I could be cheeky and instead name Gish, the title character in the game by the same name, who is literally nothing more than a ball of tar with eyes on it. His abilities are basically limited to hardening, liquifying, becoming heavy and becoming sticky.
Furthermore, Final Fantasy VII gives us Red XIII, otherwise known as Nanaki, who is basically a large lion-dog. Not only that, but the same game gives us Cait Sith, who is, err... this. In fact, if I wanted to be a dick, I could just point to Waku Waku 7's Mauru, or even the game's final boss. I assume "Bonus Kun" is a joke character, but that big black round thing IS the final boss of the game. Seriously.
And all of that's purely off memory. I agree that the technical problems with instituting a brand new model as suggested are insurmountable, but that doesn't mean any argument to the same effect has to be valid by default.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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We've secretly replaced the gun in BaB's desk with a paintball pistol. Let's see if he can tell the difference!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Better yet have them tell BAB's it's going to be part of a new Underwater Zone, but make sure the gun in his desk is unloaded first.
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Actually, I do. I've got a Cat-man stalker that doesn't turn invisible with hide but rather transforms into a small inconspicuous stealthy house cat. Granted, that's probably asking either too much (to customize that specific power for a transformation like that) or much less (you don't have to animate any attacks because just like an attack breaks hide, doing any type of offensive action would break the transformation) than the OP.|
Originally Posted by MondoCool
Does anyone actually care about this? Other than you and maybe like 2 other people?
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But as for the suggestion, I hate the idea of limiting the powersets by model. If they were to ever give an animal model, I'd want any powerset to choose from.
For weapon powers, stick the sword in there mouth and give them acrobatic movements to simulate the various strikes using the weapon. For Archery, I'd say using the tail and teeth to fire a bow and arrow is rather specific so maybe just give them a crossbow. For Assault Rifle, a back mounted gun. For Dual Blades, a double sided sword. For Dual Pistols...I'm kind of stumped. For Claws...kind of self explanatory.
Since it's a new model, the creators could make as many nodes on the model as they want and where they want them at inception. So rather than having the hands hold the weapon, the mouth or back would be the nodes for those.
As for the animal types, I'd presume only 4-legged ones. The sliders that normally alter physique and leg length could be tweeked to give control over what the animal model would closer resemble. From a long-legged deer to a short stout rat...but I'd be weary about giving players models shorter than 3ft. You'd barely be able to see them if they were that short.
PS: Yeah I know it'll never happen but a discussion on the possibilities isn't going to cause anyone but BaB and the other art devs to burst into flames.
well, as much as this may be nice for some players(wouldnt mind a wolf or quadruped version of a dragon myself) i dont see it happening. the animations required would just be a massive amount of work, tailoring any amount of costume stuff to make sense would be even more, and sadly, as mentioned it would be a payoff for only a small niche, so I really would not hold my breath for this to be implemented.
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It wouldn't be fare to put in all that work for only a few powersets. Even if the animal was make to hold the weapons in it's mouth it would get real boring do to the limited range of animations.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Thank-you for your response. You bring up some valid points.
However, some of your animation numbers can be greatly reduced. For instance, a cat model would not have access to things like swords or axes nor to the Widow or Arachnos Soldier ATs. We're talking about a cat, *not* a catgirl. I'm certain that, were the Devs to implement such a model, they would probably limit access to certain ATs. At the very least, certain powers would not have animations. An animal model *could* be used for a character with Dual Blades, for instance, but it would appear that the character is using their Dual Claws instead. There's no doubt that it *would* take a good bit of animation and character model development time, but I believe it would be a very nice addition to the game. After all, aren't CoH/CoV known for a high degree of customization? It'd be nice to have things like skins for cats, dogs, monkeys, etc. I believe that some current art assets could be used or modified. |
Now a power that let you transform into a animal complete with veracious attacks now that would be possible. Or maybe an animal trainer MM. Or beast power AT might work.
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See, this is where it falls apart for me... all of those sound horrible. A cat carrying a sword in it's mouth and attacking with it? |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
For weapon powers, stick the sword in there mouth and give them acrobatic movements to simulate the various strikes using the weapon. For Archery, I'd say using the tail and teeth to fire a bow and arrow is rather specific so maybe just give them a crossbow. For Assault Rifle, a back mounted gun. For Dual Blades, a double sided sword. For Dual Pistols...I'm kind of stumped. For Claws...kind of self explanatory.
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And a gun mounted on it's back... sounds like cats with friken laser beams. More an evil genius's plot to take over the world than a hero/villian in it's own right.
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I can think of several concepts that I'd like to try if this were in the game, but I know this idea doesn't even have a remote chance of happening any time soon if the devs did decide to try it.
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Originally Posted by MondoCool
Does anyone actually care about this? Other than you and maybe like 2 other people?
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Given it's been asked for for years, yes, I'd say there are people who do care about it. Especially since it would also expand the potential designs of new enemies we'd face.
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Originally Posted by MondoCool
Does anyone actually care about this? Other than you and maybe like 2 other people?
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Sounds pretty awesome to me. I mean, if for whatever reason someone creates a dog that uses a sword, how else would they use it? Carry it with their fingerless paws by some high-tech antigravity device because they lack thumbs? Now that sounds horrible.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
See, this is where it falls apart for me... all of those sound horrible. A cat carrying a sword in it's mouth and attacking with it?
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| And a gun mounted on it's back... sounds like cats with friken laser beams. More an evil genius's plot to take over the world than a hero/villian in it's own right. |
i have to agree with some on this post... this isnt City of Animals... I would not want to see cats, dogs or mice in their traditional sense in this game...
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
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The idea of non-humanoid characters sounds good to me. I don't know if it would have the restrictions of being just a cat or dog or any other specific animal, but I could see an adjustable frame that could be used for similar purposes.
However the OP actually wanted pure animal forms. Although I'm certainly not opposed to any new content that may eventually find its way into the game, being a cat or dog (specifically) doesn't appeal to me.
Now a monkey...
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I think that it would be great if we could have non-traditionally sized character models.
For example, Amerikatt is a cat -- NOT a catgirl. Even on the smallest size (4' tall), she is still several times the size of a cat, and she looks like a humanoid with feline features.
May we *please* get cat & kitten models upon which we may place our costumes? They'd be about 1' to 1 1/2' long (rather than 4' tall). I understand that it would probably take awhile to implement full animation for them, but it would be great if I could *finally* have my character look the way she's supposed to. She's Amerikatt, *not* Amerikattgirl.
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