Shield Offense
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-05-11 20:29 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
just rename shield defense to shield offense, keep all powers the same....viola you now have super defense at offense.....and two attacks, brawl and vet/temp powers to carry you to 50 since most people pick thematically anyways.
oh the wailing and teeth and gnashing of keyboards
I can see all the Shield/SR captain america clones now.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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There already are. Well, MA/SD anyway.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
I can see all the Shield/SR captain america clones now.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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The only PBAoE I listed was Lightning Rod, but the 60ft range is how far it teleports you (or, is capable of teleporting you) when you use it. That's why I counted it as a ranged attack; you can use it from 60ft away.|
Originally Posted by ForumSniper
True, although some of those are PBAoEs and cones. And your counting Knockout Blow???
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Why does a cone not count as a ranged attack? Blast sets almost always have a cone, and they can be used from range.
I included KoB because I was listing everything over 10ft range (I skipped over some 10ft powers), where "melee range" is 7ft.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I think I've seen more SD/SS.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
There already are. Well, MA/SD anyway.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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So they were cloning the Ultimate Marvel version of Cap. Seriously, the Ultimate version of Captain America has been shown to have super strength. Able to throw tanks and such. Not to mention go toe to toe with the Hulk. Maybe not for long, but he did go toe to toe against Hulk, and actually blocked a punch from the hulk without going flying.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
I think I've seen more SD/SS.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
You want to come up with nine different ways to hit somebody with a shield? So far we have three, shield hit, shield throw, and shield charge. Okay, give me six more.
Bigger shield hit?
Biggest Shield hit?
The ultimate shield smash of victory?
There's only so many different ways to swing your arm with a shield on it. Seriously, why are we even arguing about this? The set is never going to happen, plain and simple. As if we need more Captain America clones running around.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
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Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
You want to come up with nine different ways to hit somebody with a shield? So far we have three, shield hit, shield throw, and shield charge. Okay, give me six more.
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- standard shield bash
- two-handed shield uppercut
- Taunt
- Build up
- Forward arcing cone that would probably use a similar animation to the current shield charge, only without the teleporting effect
- PBAE where the shield is thrown and does two quick rotations around, then returns to, the user like a boomerang.
- Unique power that works similarly to hibernate, seen with the council mobs with shields that have their own version of hibernate
I didn't even have to try to come up with 7. I'm sure two more attacks could be wrangled.
edit: coming up with 9 powers is the easy part. Making the set good is an entirely different subject.
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There's also only so many ways to punch or swing a sword someone might say. You could probably call some of the attacks in Broadsword "Bigger Sword Slash", "Biggest Sword Slash", and "Ultimate Slice of Cuttingness".|
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
You want to come up with nine different ways to hit somebody with a shield? So far we have three, shield hit, shield throw, and shield charge. Okay, give me six more.
Bigger shield hit? Biggest Shield hit? The ultimate shield smash of victory? There's only so many different ways to swing your arm with a shield on it. Seriously, why are we even arguing about this? The set is never going to happen, plain and simple. As if we need more Captain America clones running around. |
And the way I'd do it, you'd only need six attacks plus a taunt/confront, a build up, and the toggle I mentioned before.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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The 616 Mainstream Cap has actually gone up against the Hulk more often. As well as blocking strikes from him and holding his own. If you look at just feats of strength alone he constantly does things in the super human strength level. Working out he is able to curl 500 or so pounds (have the scan but forgot the exact number on this part) as well as we see him bench pressing 1,100-1,200 pounds. Not to mention the number of times we have seen him throw his shield faster than a bullet travels. Also thrown it to catch up to a speeding missile and sever the chains that were keeping Falcon strapped to it. Breaking down reinforced steel doors with his hands. Bending guns, lifting huge tree trunks. Not to mention the number of people he has knocked out with punches that have superhuman durability. The list goes on with tons of impressive things that he has done over the years. Strength fears that exceed his Ultimate counterpart.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
So they were cloning the Ultimate Marvel version of Cap. Seriously, the Ultimate version of Captain America has been shown to have super strength. Able to throw tanks and such. Not to mention go toe to toe with the Hulk. Maybe not for long, but he did go toe to toe against Hulk, and actually blocked a punch from the hulk without going flying.
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The mainstream cap is at 'peak physical perfection', but still achievable (barely) by a normal person. Yeah, he's blocked punches by the hulk, but he didn't do so without budging. Nor can he lift a ton. He's not that strong. Nor can he go up against the hulk without help. The shield is a vibranium/adamantium mix though. And vibranium is known as the 'anti-metal'. So his shield destroying chains is valid. He hasn't thrown it fast enough to catch up with missiles or outpace bullets since he stripped out all the tech Tony Stark added to it in the early nineties either. Tony had built tech into the shield which allowed cap to control it like a boomarang, among other things. That was ditched less then a year later.|
Originally Posted by Andferne
The 616 Mainstream Cap has actually gone up against the Hulk more often. As well as blocking strikes from him and holding his own. If you look at just feats of strength alone he constantly does things in the super human strength level. Working out he is able to curl 500 or so pounds (have the scan but forgot the exact number on this part) as well as we see him bench pressing 1,100-1,200 pounds. Not to mention the number of times we have seen him throw his shield faster than a bullet travels. Also thrown it to catch up to a speeding missile and sever the chains that were keeping Falcon strapped to it. Breaking down reinforced steel doors with his hands. Bending guns, lifting huge tree trunks. Not to mention the number of people he has knocked out with punches that have superhuman durability. The list goes on with tons of impressive things that he has done over the years. Strength fears that exceed his Ultimate counterpart.
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Ultimate Cap though has tossed a tank, ripped gun turrets out of walls, not only gone toe to toe with the hulk alone but actually came close to pushing hulk back in one issue during a contest of strength. He's been depicted as being about half as strong as Thor in the ultimate marvel universe. And Thor is roughly the equivilant strength as Hulk (when hulk isn't too enraged). Ultimate Cap has been shown able to throw cars around when he wants to, something Spiderman can't do. And Spidy has super strength. He bench pressed 1600 pounds in one issue of Ultimate Avengers.
Mainstream Cap bench presses roughly 800 I believe.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Dude, I've got Ultimate Spider-man volume one right here, and the First thing Spider-man does to test his strength is hammer-toss a Cadillac
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Yeah, they ramped up the strength of the Ultimate versions. The mainstream Spiderman can lift a small car with strain, but a caddy would be too heavy to really toss around.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Pretty sure the first thing classic Spider-man did with his super strength is crush a steel pipe with one hand without thinking about it.
The thing is Spider-man is almost always fighting peopl with at least Thing-level strength so HIS low level super-strength is almost a non-issue.
I'm sure Spidey is stronger than Cap.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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He crushed a chimney pipe actually, by accident. But then those aren't really as study as a steel pipe. Sturdy, but not THAT sturdy. While he's lifted 2 tons once, he just barely pulled it off. And Spidey is stronger then cap. He's in the low end of super strength though. Which says something about how badly the ultimate universe is scripted at times. Spidey in the ultimate universe has been depicted as being far stronger then in the mainstreem universe. As has Captain America. But in ultimate marvel, I'm tempted to rate Captain America as having a bit more super strength then Peter Parker.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
Pretty sure the first thing classic Spider-man did with his super strength is crush a steel pipe with one hand without thinking about it.
The thing is Spider-man is almost always fighting peopl with at least Thing-level strength so HIS low level super-strength is almost a non-issue. I'm sure Spidey is stronger than Cap. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I have scans of him doing said feats (Throwing shield to catch a missile, throwing it faster than someone shooting, etc). I'm not making stuff up, there are two Marvel characters I know front to back and every impressive feat they have ever done. That is Captain America (Steven Rogers) and Cyclops. Also Vibranium is not the same as anti-metal. There are two types of Vibranium in the world. Type that Black Panther uses as his suit, and then the type that rips through any known metal. Such as Warpaths knives. His breaking the chains was with his bare hands, same as breaking down the doors. Not using the shield in those instances. Spider-man is a 10 tonner.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
The mainstream cap is at 'peak physical perfection', but still achievable (barely) by a normal person. Yeah, he's blocked punches by the hulk, but he didn't do so without budging. Nor can he lift a ton. He's not that strong. Nor can he go up against the hulk without help. The shield is a vibranium/adamantium mix though. And vibranium is known as the 'anti-metal'. So his shield destroying chains is valid. He hasn't thrown it fast enough to catch up with missiles or outpace bullets since he stripped out all the tech Tony Stark added to it in the early nineties either. Tony had built tech into the shield which allowed cap to control it like a boomarang, among other things. That was ditched less then a year later.
Mainstream Cap bench presses roughly 800 I believe. |
Mainstream Cap has bench pressed 1,100 pounds. If you don't believe me go to a site called ComicVine.com. I'd be more than happy to enlighten you there and post the scans of Mainstream Cap doing everything I said he has here.
Edited: Not sure how to post pictures here. But easy way to see if I am lying or not is to just check the following link. It takes you to one of the debates I have had there on ComicVine, and has dozens of impressive Captain America feats. Including the ones I mentioned above.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/batt...walkin/528033/
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Originally Posted by ForumSniper
There's a difference.
This is a superhero game based on comics. In comics, superheroes throw their shields. It's kind of iconic. Yours is just random and absurd. |
Above statement: Incorrect
Sword laser utilisation: Already in practice
Practical ramifications: Bigger swords: Lack of Need: Two weapons
Shield purpose: Defensive
Throwing Shield: Result: 0% Defence
Result: Swift Death
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Instead of making an entirely new shield offense set, just make alternate animations for SS users weilding shields, involving shield bashing, smiting and even throwing ur shield (hurl)
I like the idea of shield offense even though most don't. Everything would be in the same hand. I hear the logic behind locking in shield, shield, but I don't buy it. Most people would probably pair them, but not all. It comes down to what powers the Devs can make fit into the game from a cost/tech perspective. I haven't really seen too many suggestions get made into powers because either they can't or too much work for the potential return. For example, optic blasts, would love to see it, but probably won't happen, secondary, make it part of customisation. Have the fire point be the eyes, could see that happening, but not anytime soon. Everybody on here will have a power they want to see and there will be those that don't like it. That's the funny thing about power suggestions, I see more slagging than support, but I must admit, there is logic to a lot of the negative feedback. In short..........Optic Blasts!!!!!!!!!!!! and while we are it, Earth Blasts, Cosmic Energy/Light Blasts, Streetfighting or Some other type of melee fighting.
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Not for Cap. *shrug*|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Result: Swift Death |
Rikti get a swift death regardless.
The nerdrage abounds in this topic. I'd just like to see SO because I'd have fun playing it. *shrug*
Will SO ever happen? Well, the devs have already said no, so I'm guessin'.... no. No biggie - I'll deal wif it.
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They can't do that, at least not with the current tech. It's the same reason why Shield Charge is a teleport: they can't make your character run through the intervening distance.
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Originally Posted by Dersk
Forward arcing cone that would probably use a similar animation to the current shield charge, only without the teleporting effect
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Cap's shield comes right back after he throws it, so I could live with a second lapse in defense. That's what comes to mind when I mention throwing the shield. |
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Which made absolutely no difference from a defensive standpoint. With or without the shield in hand in those fighting games, you take the exact same amount of damage when hit, and your ability to avoid being it is still dependent on your personal skill.
Do you know why when roleplaying you rarely see someone with a shield throw it? Even in a superhero game? Because it's a really dumb idea. You've got this object you carry with you as a form of defense. To help distribute the weight you hold onto a hand grip, with one or more straps ALSO holding it onto your arm. Especially true if it's not a buckler. Your using it to fend off attacks. In a superhero game your also using it as portable cover from that guy with an uzi and his friends. Would you throw said portable cover? No, you wouldn't. Even if the shield is perfectly round, it's not balanced for throwing. It's not something you can just toss whenever you want either. Plus the second you throw your shield, it Is Not There. You don't have it for defense while it's flying through the air. That gunfire you were using it to avoid? It's now got nothing between you and it. Hope your really freaking good at dodging bullets. Plus Captain America aside, shields are not a yo-yo. It's not going to return to you. Your going to have to go retrieve your shield. And if you can stop bullets with this shield, you'd better believe your enemies will try to grab it the moment you throw away your 'weapon'. You know, I find it funny how Captain America's shield is always shown from the front. It never shows how he carries it. Except when it's slung across his back. Then you can see the two straps which would hold it in place on his arm. But that's beside the point. Spartus: Blood in the Sand points out another very important fact in episode 2. Throwing away your WEAPON is a stupid idea to begin with. In the first episode you see Spartus constantly throwing his sword in battle, and then having to grab a new one, or retrieve his sword. Then in ep 2 he gets the fact it's a horrible idea literally pounded into him. |
It may be stupid, but I don't see it being any more stupid than many of the other powersets that we have in the game. There are several weapons based sets where you hit people with whatever it is several different ways, so yeah, I'd love to roll a Shield Offense/Shield Defense brute or scrapper one day.
@Joshua.
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You're imagining something different than powers like crowd control and pendulum. I wasn't attempting to describe the character moving forward.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
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Do you know why when roleplaying you rarely see someone with a shield throw it? Even in a superhero game? Because it's a really dumb idea. You've got this object you carry with you as a form of defense. To help distribute the weight you hold onto a hand grip, with one or more straps ALSO holding it onto your arm. Especially true if it's not a buckler. Your using it to fend off attacks. In a superhero game your also using it as portable cover from that guy with an uzi and his friends. Would you throw said portable cover?
No, you wouldn't. Even if the shield is perfectly round, it's not balanced for throwing. It's not something you can just toss whenever you want either. Plus the second you throw your shield, it Is Not There. You don't have it for defense while it's flying through the air. That gunfire you were using it to avoid? It's now got nothing between you and it. Hope your really freaking good at dodging bullets. Plus Captain America aside, shields are not a yo-yo. It's not going to return to you. Your going to have to go retrieve your shield. And if you can stop bullets with this shield, you'd better believe your enemies will try to grab it the moment you throw away your 'weapon'.
You know, I find it funny how Captain America's shield is always shown from the front. It never shows how he carries it. Except when it's slung across his back. Then you can see the two straps which would hold it in place on his arm. But that's beside the point. Spartus: Blood in the Sand points out another very important fact in episode 2. Throwing away your WEAPON is a stupid idea to begin with. In the first episode you see Spartus constantly throwing his sword in battle, and then having to grab a new one, or retrieve his sword. Then in ep 2 he gets the fact it's a horrible idea literally pounded into him.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History