QoL - unslotting.


Ael Rhiana

 

Posted

At any point has anyone asked or heard from the devs if there will be a way to deslot a toon without having to respec for 10 io's a time.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna_ View Post
At any point has anyone asked or heard from the devs if there will be a way to deslot a toon without having to respec for 10 io's a time.
The lower left garbage can?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
The lower left garbage can?
How is that going to help if he/she wishes to keep their IO's? Having to do upwards of 6 respecs just to unslot and keep your IOs, is a little bit of a pain. I have never done so, but I have known plenty of people who have had to.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarKitten View Post
How is that going to help if he/she wishes to keep their IO's? Having to do upwards of 6 respecs just to unslot and keep your IOs, is a little bit of a pain. I have never done so, but I have known plenty of people who have had to.
The devs have been on record repeatedly saying that enhancements (of ANY kind) are meant to be permanent.

According to them, we're lucky we even get to keep 10 of them.

I don't anticipate them changing their mind on this one, if they were going to it would likely have happened by now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

It has been suggested many, many times about unslotting on a limited basis. It would be a nice QoL change, but ClawsandEffect is right that the dev haven't indicated they would change their minds on this.

But I will add a recent post for reference, that I thought was a great idea, in case the devs did change their opinion.


 

Posted

Check out this thread:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219336

It has an idea in it to do something similar to what you're asking, and I actually like the idea outlined in it.

Read the whole thread. A lot of suggestions made in it fleshed out the idea a lot more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Pointless thread/suggestion.

Here's how I will deal the deathblow:

why are you content with the scraps when you could have the whole meal?

If the devs were actually going to make a change then why settle for a few more enhancements.

If you're going to bother with this suggestion then we should ask that enhancements are not "permanent."

If one so desires, they can slot an enhancement and 60 seconds later remove the enhancement because they've changed their mind or made a mistake.

You think by asking for just a little bit more this specific request is valid and justified.

Wrong.


 

Posted

Actually, if you really want a "QoL" change that doesn't alter any of the existing game rules, just "streamlines" the process of unslotting your character and keeping your IOs, here's something I'd like to see:

A "version" of respec that we can call "respec lite" (just to call it something). Performing it costs a respec, just like doing a full respec would, but:

1. A "respec lite" assumes you intend to keep exactly the same powers at exactly the same level you got them before, with exactly the same slotting.

2. It "starts" by opening up the "place enhancements" screen you see at the end of a full respec, but...

3. Unlike a full respec, it leaves your enhancement in their original slots. As is normal for the place enhancements screen, though, you can move slotted enhancements around (e.g. to your enhancement tray, the "still to place or they'll get sold" window below).

The benefit? It lets you manipulate your enhancements in exactly the same way going through the full respec process would. But it skips you having to rechoose powers and slots if all you are using the respec for is to move around enhancements - or free some up (or even "mass sell" a bunch of them).

Again, you can't do anything a normal respec wouldn't let you do (enhancement wise) - you still cannot "unslot and keep" more than 10. It'd still cost you six of your respecs to fully unslot your character at level 50. It just lets you do what you were planning on doing in a much faster, much less tedious way, with exactly the same "costs" as are currently in the game.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna_ View Post
At any point has anyone asked or heard from the devs if there will be a way to deslot a toon without having to respec for 10 io's a time.
Not. Going. To. Happen.

Enhancements are currently the only real influence / merit sink in the game. There's nothing you can really buy with CoH's dominant currency outside of enhancements. Sure, you can spend influence on inspirations, but at high levels, a single minion is worth more per defeat than a purchasable inspiration. e.g. Jaegers in PI are worth 2,127 influence in SG mode.

The decision to allow characters to deslot any enhancements was largely seen as a gesture of goodwill back in the SO days.

In today's IO influenced game, it's actually more likely the developers will look at limiting... even further... the ability to deslot and retain IO's after a respec.


 

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Originally Posted by Coulomb2 View Post
A "version" of respec that we can call "respec lite" (just to call it something). Performing it costs a respec, just like doing a full respec would, but:

1. A "respec lite" assumes you intend to keep exactly the same powers at exactly the same level you got them before, with exactly the same slotting.

2. It "starts" by opening up the "place enhancements" screen you see at the end of a full respec, but...

3. Unlike a full respec, it leaves your enhancement in their original slots. As is normal for the place enhancements screen, though, you can move slotted enhancements around (e.g. to your enhancement tray, the "still to place or they'll get sold" window below).
I like this; Often I'd just like to re-choose the last few powers (see: the adding of the 5th power to app/ppp, and re-chosing of ppp) and it would be so nice to just keep everything as it is, and go back a couple of steps. Although I'm guessing the biggest hurtle to this is that the game does not currently track which slots were placed when.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarKitten View Post
How is that going to help if he/she wishes to keep their IO's? Having to do upwards of 6 respecs just to unslot and keep your IOs, is a little bit of a pain. I have never done so, but I have known plenty of people who have had to.
Man, you need to slot some humor in that thing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna_ View Post
At any point has anyone asked or heard from the devs if there will be a way to deslot a toon without having to respec for 10 io's a time.

This is one of the few requests the devs have been adamant about not changing. As others have explained Enhancements have always been intended to be permanent, and the devs have flat out told us on several occasions that they were being generous when they decided to give us the ability to pull 10 enhancements from a build.

As the game has evolved and new features have been added like IO's the devs have made changes to adapt to the players desire to pull enhancements from a characters build. The method the devs chose to use was by removing the limitation on the number of times a character could use respecs.

You see it used to be you could only respec three times, and you could only earn respecs by doing the Respec TF. Once you used them up you were Sh** out of luck.

So now days if we want to pull every enhancement from a build we have the following options to choose from.
  1. Trial Respecs - earned, up to 3 possible by completing a power respecification trial
  2. Veteran Respecs - earned, up to 5 possible (at 69 months) by subscribing for a specific number of months and receiving one via the Veteran Rewards Program
  3. Patron Respecs - earned, 1 possible (Villain only) for villains only, by completing the first Patron arc and unlocking a Patron Power Pool
  4. Soldiers of Arachnos Respec - earned, 1 possible (Villain only) for Soldier of Arachnos villains only, by reaching Threat Level 24 (this respec is mandatory)
  5. Purchased Respec - earned, theoretically unlimited by purchasing one from the in-game store for $9.99 USD
  6. Free Respec - free (A character can only have 1 at a time and they do not stack) by having one given to him or her by the developers during a special event or after a significant change in power mechanics
  7. Respec Recipes - free by crafting one from a Respec Recipe (These cannot be crafted if the character already has a free respec available)
  8. Holiday Respec - free (These cannot be purchased at the Candy Keeper if the character already has a free respec available) during Winter Events, purchased with Candy Cane Salvage at the Candy Keeper
So there you have it. We may feel that having to use multiple respecs is an inconvienence but that's the only method the devs have chosen to allow us to use.


 

Posted

I know it's not gonna happen and all, but I have to add that in some cases you don't respec your toon just to make him better or suit your playstyle more, or because you feel like it.

I have a fully IO'ed ice/psi permadom. I was completely satisfied with the build, hey, maybe I'd change one thing or two like adding another purple set in case I made more money.

But... the devs COMPLETELY changed psi assault. And now I have to drastically change my build, like add other attacks. Not because I want to, because I need to.

It's a different case than 'I'll change my fire armor tanker from focusing on recharge to get a lot of defense' - that would also be a drastic change, but because the player wants to make his toon excel in another aspect.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'wah wah they nerfed PSW which I used to spam', I think the psi changes were positive for most players, especially for leveling (which was a pain with this dom till 38), but that in some cases the 10-enhancement limit is painful and not our fault that we have to use a lot of respecs to replace them, like when they drastically change a powerset for better or worse.

My DM/DA is another case, surely not as 'severe' as the ice/psi, but I'll have to respec out of shadow punch which was nerfed and killed the buzzsaw attack chain, slot siphon life for damage and heal now, etc.

And if I ever want to PvP with my IO'ed EM/Nin Stalker again, I'll have to IO a second build, she worked very well on PvE and PvP with the same build but now I'll have to gut her defenses (making her lame for PvE if I did that to the primary build), add 41 points of KB protection, change her patron to one that's kinda lame in PvE if I were to change her primary build...

I'm not whining nor expecting that exceptions will be made because it would be complicated to sort out who would 'deserve' a full IO respec, but just giving examples to show that this dev talk of 'Enhancements should be permanent' loses credibility when they change powersets forcing players to respec. I'm not against buffing or nerfing or any kind of change, I just think they contradict themselves.

I spent 1 billion and 2 respecs to revamp my Mind/Emp, that's okay, I wanted to change some things, try some powers I hadn't before, remove others I didn't use much. That was something I did with enthusiasm, I was improving and changing a toon to renew my interest on her.

But my head hurts just thinking about all the sales, respecs and possibly wasted IOs just to make my ice/psi have acceptable levels of performance for such an investment, since I spent 2 months after she hit 50 to get her to how she is now (and btw, I used to PvP with her on RV till i12, and now Ice Control is garbage there and psi is nothing special since sh relied on holds and slows which meh in post-i13 PvP, so not even 50 free respecs would make her viable the way she was in this scenario).


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
I'm not whining nor expecting that exceptions will be made because it would be complicated to sort out who would 'deserve' a full IO respec, but just giving examples to show that this dev talk of 'Enhancements should be permanent' loses credibility when they change powersets forcing players to respec. I'm not against buffing or nerfing or any kind of change, I just think they contradict themselves.
Yes, the kind of situation your talking about sucks. But, the Dev's view, right or wrong, is that the game is fully playable with SOs. They don't take into account people having to swap out large numbers of sets, because those people don't need large numbers of sets.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh77 View Post
Pointless thread/suggestion.

Here's how I will deal the deathblow:

why are you content with the scraps when you could have the whole meal?

If the devs were actually going to make a change then why settle for a few more enhancements.

If you're going to bother with this suggestion then we should ask that enhancements are not "permanent."

If one so desires, they can slot an enhancement and 60 seconds later remove the enhancement because they've changed their mind or made a mistake.

You think by asking for just a little bit more this specific request is valid and justified.

Wrong.
Ok so I was reading through your replies, and i had to stop at this post...

So i'm going to take a minute to answer a few points made by milehigh77.

Pointless thread/suggestion

If this is how you feel about it then you are more than welcome not to reply, you do realise that everyone here would have gotten by quite happily without your input.

Here's how I will deal the deathblow:

Seriously are you 12?

why are you content with the scraps when you could have the whole meal?

Maybe you didn't read the original post, where does it say I am content with "the scraps" as you put it. The poinr of the post was that I was not content with the current version.
Try to keep up.

If you're going to bother with this suggestion then we should ask that enhancements are not "permanent."

Where do you get this from? Not bothering with a suggestion? I didn't make a suggestion my original post was a question ! p.s - Enhancements are not permanent they can be removed via respec, it's just time consuming.

If one so desires, they can slot an enhancement and 60 seconds later remove the enhancement because they've changed their mind or made a mistake.

No they can't. Oh wait was this a statement or a suggestion? you didn't say... by the way I don't make mistakes when I slot my toons if you read the original post you will see I refer to respecs. Which means toons that have been long since slotted and I want to use the IO's now for something new.

You think by asking for just a little bit more this specific request is valid and justified.

I think that my request was for information about the devs view on this topic. Hence why this is posted in Player Questions and not in Development. So yes it is valid and justified, not that I was asking your permission for anything anyway.

Wrong.

Yes, yes you are. Very...



Now, about this deathblow?


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Posted

Lighten up, Francis.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiken View Post
Yes, the kind of situation your talking about sucks. But, the Dev's view, right or wrong, is that the game is fully playable with SOs. They don't take into account people having to swap out large numbers of sets, because those people don't need large numbers of sets.
Yup, I understand and I agree the game is fully playable with SOs. It's just that the difference between 'Hey I'm gonna spend a lot to remake my Brute to add defense/whatever so he can be better' and 'Damn I'm gonna spend a lot and waste 5 respecs for my toon to keep the level of performance she had before because the devs changed the powers' may mean that you'll odo the first thing enthusiastically and (in my case at least) shelve the toons for months thinking 'well someday I"ll get to it...'. Kinda sucks in the end this is just a game.

I complained because besides my mind/emp and my fire/kin, all of my other heavily IO'ed toons were affected (ice/psi, dm/da, em/nin in case I want to pvp again), so I got hit kinda hard. But then again the harcore PvPers were the worst I guess since a lot of powersets were rendered suboptimal or close to useless, but i13 pvp changes are kinda off topic heh .


 

Posted

LOL my favorite saying. Gave me a big chuckle.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh77 View Post
Pointless thread/suggestion.

Here's how I will deal the deathblow:

why are you content with the scraps when you could have the whole meal?

If the devs were actually going to make a change then why settle for a few more enhancements.

If you're going to bother with this suggestion then we should ask that enhancements are not "permanent."

If one so desires, they can slot an enhancement and 60 seconds later remove the enhancement because they've changed their mind or made a mistake.

You think by asking for just a little bit more this specific request is valid and justified.

Wrong.
Wow what a deathblow, you really crushed Donna! I'm impressed by your awesomeness.

Do you feel strong and pretty like a Mace/EA Brute now?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
Wow what a deathblow, you really crushed Donna! I'm impressed by your awesomeness.

Do you feel strong and pretty like a Mace/EA Brute now?
Your rebuttal is fail.

I guarantee if any redname took sides, they would say my train of thought is the only valid one.

Positron asks "I have within my capabilities to allow you to keep all of your slotted IOs when you respec. How many do you think I should allow you to keep?"

Noob answers "A total of 20 sounds very good to me!"

Positron's face contorts in utter confusion "........Okay.....so....let me get this straight. I'm offering you the ability to keep ALL of your enhancements whenever you respec. In other words, I am increasing the size of your character's enhancement holding tray during respecs so it can hold ALL of your slotted IOs......and you are happy with me allowing you to keep a total of 20?"

Noob flashes a big grin "Yes sir!"

Positron turns and walks away.

The kind of change this thread is asking for is short sighted. Why ask for increased enhancement tray when you can have all enhancements be "non-permanent?"

You can have the last word on this back 'n forth because I find it very meh.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh77 View Post
Your rebuttal is fail.

I guarantee if any redname took sides, they would say my train of thought is the only valid one.

Positron asks "I have within my capabilities to allow you to keep all of your slotted IOs when you respec. How many do you think I should allow you to keep?"

Noob answers "A total of 20 sounds very good to me!"

Positron's face contorts in utter confusion "........Okay.....so....let me get this straight. I'm offering you the ability to keep ALL of your enhancements whenever you respec. In other words, I am increasing the size of your character's enhancement holding tray during respecs so it can hold ALL of your slotted IOs......and you are happy with me allowing you to keep a total of 20?"

Noob flashes a big grin "Yes sir!"

Positron turns and walks away.

The kind of change this thread is asking for is short sighted. Why ask for increased enhancement tray when you can have all enhancements be "non-permanent?"

You can have the last word on this back 'n forth because I find it very meh.
omg you are thick as pig ***.

read the original post, this was not a QoL change request thread.

Should have known you were a RP.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna_ View Post
read the original post, this was not a QoL change request thread.
Umm...

Indirectly, it is. While that may not of been your intention, it could be seen that way.
While milehigh's tone could of been a little less snarky, his point that unlimited Enhancement retention in a respec is basically a dead letter issue w/the Devs.

Now personally, I would like to be able to retain more than 10 in a respec, but I can deal with it.

Thank you for the time...


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Posted

You are absolutely right tymer.

I was out of line.

I will make a greater attempt to correct my behavior on the forums



I apologize to donna for my idiotic post.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by milehigh77 View Post
You are absolutely right tymer.

I was out of line.

I will make a greater attempt to correct my behavior on the forums



I apologize to donna for my idiotic post.
Wow, respect for that post x

ty


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Enhancements are currently the only real influence / merit sink in the game.
Argument fail. That is a supply sink, not an inf sink. Unslotting drives prices down.

There is a great inf sink idea here. Essentially, 3 millionish inf to unslot 1 IO.

Quote:
This is one of the few requests the devs have been adamant about not changing. As others have explained Enhancements have always been intended to be permanent, and the devs have flat out told us on several occasions that they were being generous when they decided to give us the ability to pull 10 enhancements from a build.
I'm wondering how long ago that was, and what the reason behind it is. (I.E., inventions changed the dynamics of it because it went from a way to keep people buying SOs, an inf sink, to a supply sink).


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