My simple solution to nuke crashes...


Another_Fan

 

Posted

Instead of having and endurance crash, why not just disable the toon from using attacks for, i don't know, 15-25 seconds, so that toggles don't crash, but you still can't attack. For the effect of " I'm spent, give me a minute"


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
Instead of having and endurance crash, why not just disable the toon from using attacks for, i don't know, 15-25 seconds, so that toggles don't crash, but you still can't attack. For the effect of " I'm spent, give me a minute"
won't ever happen.

The nuke crash is intentional for the amount of damage the nuke can do over the number of targets the nuke can affect. While our developers are not known to say Never very often, changing Full-Nuke debuffs for Blasters / Corruptors / Defenders is one of the few things that has made the list in the past.


 

Posted

It just seems like my proposal has the intented end result, but just achieved a bit differently and more appealing to the players.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
It just seems like my proposal has the intended end result, but just achieved a bit differently and more appealing to the players.
Well, no. Because then toggles wouldn't end.

In the past the developers have indicated they "want" a complete crash. They do want to make the ranged avatar that launched a full nuke to be "completely helpless."

One of the... problems... with your solution... is that it makes the sets play more like one another. One of the objectives, design goals, desired for objective... of the different power sets... is that they are DIFFERENT.

You shouldn't have the same experience playing an Archery Defender that you would have playing an Archery Corruptor. A Dark Corruptor should play differently than a /Dark Defender.

The full-nukes / half-nukes are one of the tools the developers use to separate sets from each other. Yes, half nukes like Rain of Arrows, Full Auto, and Hail of Bullets are "safer" to pull off... but... you get a much more visceral feeling when triggering Nova, Blackstar, or Thunderous Blast. There's a real sense that you, the player, are vulnerable.

Take that risk away, and you'll actually remove or damage the experience of playing several different sets.

So. It's not going to happen.


 

Posted

I guess just stick with shield charge where you can have your cake and eat it too.


 

Posted

It's time true blaster nukes got some form of a buff. Nowadays they are eclipsed by shield charge and lightning rod, which although not as damaging, are a lot more practical to use. I'd be happy if their recharge was cut down but I wouldn't mind if all true nukes got the EMP treatment where it doesn't drain the user but halts recovery.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
It just seems like my proposal has the intented end result, but just achieved a bit differently and more appealing to the players.
No, their intent was to make it difficult to both attack and defend yourself, but not impossible. Since the nukes buff your damage for 10 seconds, and that buff was added long after the initial implementation of the game, it's obvious that they intended for you to attack after a nuke.

With the endurance crash you can't activate powers that allow an easy escape such as Personal Force Field or Phase Shift immediately after a nuke without some kind of external assist like a blue inspiration. This makes it less safe to use nukes, and is part of the trade-off for giving characters such massive attacks.

There are several other powers that crash endurance, including defensive ones such as Unstoppable and Force of Nature. It's a common trope in the comics for heroes to be left exhausted after doing something extraordinary.


 

Posted

Thats all in essence i'm saying, let you nova but keep your toggs goin. Not being able to attack, but still being able to have your defensive stuff going, if nothing else to avoid having to take time to simply pop a blue and retogg, or use consume or something similiar. There are way too many ways around the crashes really.


 

Posted

The question you should be asking yourself is not "how can I survive post nuke," but rather "how can I kill moar post nuke."

Nuke used to be the pinnacle of damage but not anymore. Now you can alternate shield charge and lightning rod every 30 seconds and not miss a beat. Compare that to nukes that you can have up every 90 seconds on a high recharge build that crashes your endurance.

Sure nukes do more damage than SC and LR, but is the extra down time and the longer recharge really worth that extra bit of damage?


 

Posted

The proposed change would bea pretty major nerf to transferrence and blue inspirations. Overall it would dramatically reduce the versatility of the powers.

I agree the crash nukes feel very outdated now, but this seems like a nerf.


 

Posted

No thx, currently I can overcome the crash. Under your system I can't.

As for Shield Charge it is going to get a pretty heavy reduction at somepoint down the road. Castle has confirmed it is not WAI.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
It just seems like my proposal has the intented end result, but just achieved a bit differently and more appealing to the players.
Considering I can nuke, pop a blue, hit power sink and get right back in the fight, why would it appeal to me to be completely prevented from attacking for 20 seconds?? No thanks...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
Instead of having and endurance crash, why not just disable the toon from using attacks for, i don't know, 15-25 seconds, so that toggles don't crash, but you still can't attack. For the effect of " I'm spent, give me a minute"
Nukes become completely useless except as set mules at that point. Its significantly worse than what we have now, and the crashing nukes for the most part can completely be skipped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Well, no. Because then toggles wouldn't end.

In the past the developers have indicated they "want" a complete crash. They do want to make the ranged avatar that launched a full nuke to be "completely helpless."
By your logic current nukes currently need to be crippled more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
No thx, currently I can overcome the crash. Under your system I can't.

As for Shield Charge it is going to get a pretty heavy reduction at somepoint down the road. Castle has confirmed it is not WAI.
ROFL, I have to wonder which of the dozens of concepts of game balance failed to be communicated amongst the people whose job it is to make them work that came from.

Then again I look at the game, and see there was a problem with the death rate amongst the ATs, what was the solution ? Make death unimportant.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
No thx, currently I can overcome the crash. Under your system I can't.

^ This My first thought. I can drop a nuke, pop a row of blues I always have prepared for nukes, and then blast the few remaining suckers. Not being able to attack for 20s on a 90s recharging power would seriously cramp my game play.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Well, no. Because then toggles wouldn't end.

In the past the developers have indicated they "want" a complete crash. They do want to make the ranged avatar that launched a full nuke to be "completely helpless." [snip]
For me the key word here is "in the past". At present, the developers seem to consider old school nukes as poor game design. The fact that since the early days, every nuke (or its equivalent) has been made without complete crash should make this apparent to everyone.

Initially small changes were made, like the kheld nukes with complete crash yet with the tools to circumvent said crash. Assault Rifle, Archery, and Dual Pistols (semi-) nukes are all exponents of the new more gameplay friendly style. The VEAT Crabs Omega Maneuver is a completely crashless nuke. The Fortunata version of the Psychich Blast nuke doesn't crash either.

This isn't only a Blaster issue though, for Defenders nukes with crash are even more of an issue than they are for Blasters as they lead to a crash without generally making a significant dent in the targets and Defenders without endurance fail to defend their teams. Old school nukes and snipes are remnants of a different era where flowing gameplay wasn't valued nearly as much as it is today and I would like nothing more (CoH related) than to see such powers revamped.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
Instead of having and endurance crash, why not just disable the toon from using attacks for, i don't know, 15-25 seconds, so that toggles don't crash, but you still can't attack. For the effect of " I'm spent, give me a minute"

No. With an End crash and toggle drop, I can still eat blues and keep on trucking.

If you stop me from being able to attack, I die. Period.



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Posted

Alternately, it would mean that on a rad/whatever defender, you continue your rad debuffs at more or less unimpeded effectiveness after the nuke so its aftereffects are pretty minimal on a team.


 

Posted

I rather like the system as it is now, as it is very very easy to overcome. Pop a blue, hit power sink or consume or psy drain and back to full end. Easy enough.

NOW what I would like to see is NRG get a small buff as the knockback is soooo random. Heck I have seen many AV's knocked down by other archtypes, however a fully slotted Power Push won't even make them bat an eye lash.


 

Posted

From the same kind of minds that brought you the Technofix, behold the Unfix. It changes the situation, doesn't actually make it any better, and in a lot of cases, makes it worse. But it's a change, and the proponent thinks it'll do what he wants!


 

Posted

I have a better solution, just nuke the crash. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
Instead of having and endurance crash, why not just disable the toon from using attacks for, i don't know, 15-25 seconds, so that toggles don't crash, but you still can't attack. For the effect of " I'm spent, give me a minute"


H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD

 

Posted

I have no issues with the end crash on my fire/fire/fire blaster.

No, that isn't true, I have a resist toggle that drops.

The way I see it, many of us that play the nuke blaster toons have developed a way to use the current system to recover enough endurance to keep going. Post-nuke, I pop a blue, consume to mop up (I slot for damage, not endurance on consume) and keep on rolling. If I die, I did something wrong. But, then again, I'm Level 50 and have Rise of the Phoenix, so death is just a chance to grab a soda or listen to the wife tell me about that thing that she will say she told me about three days from now, none of which I will recall at that point.

By shutting down our offense for 20 seconds (or even 15 or 10) you take away what we are suppose to be good at, you take away our entire purpose. We shoot things. Sometimes we punch or freeze or "think really hard violently" or whatever, but we are blasters, we do damage.

I'm actually considering respecing out of that toggle. I'll probably come up with a second, safer build for staying alive on Master runs. But for pure flaming fury, I'll take more "dishing out" power over "taking it" protection.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theheat View Post
Thats all in essence i'm saying, let you nova but keep your toggs goin. Not being able to attack, but still being able to have your defensive stuff going, if nothing else to avoid having to take time to simply pop a blue and retogg, or use consume or something similiar. There are way too many ways around the crashes really.
Really?

I just came up with a Fire/Fire/Cold blaster build that is softcapped to S/L/E/N AND ranged.

That alone breaks the diea of a nuke stripping away your defenses as well as your ability to attack. IF my toggles didn't drop I would be able to nuke with impunity against most enemies I am likely to encounter.

Not much is going to get through the layer of defenses I managed to build up there, so not being able to attack for a few seocnd is not going to inconvenience me in the slightest.

With a full end crash my nearly untouchable blaster is suddenly vulnerable as all my toggles shut down. Which is EXACTLY what the devs have said they want full crash nukes to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Really?

I just came up with a Fire/Fire/Cold blaster build that is softcapped to S/L/E/N AND ranged.

That alone breaks the diea of a nuke stripping away your defenses as well as your ability to attack. IF my toggles didn't drop I would be able to nuke with impunity against most enemies I am likely to encounter.

Not much is going to get through the layer of defenses I managed to build up there, so not being able to attack for a few seocnd is not going to inconvenience me in the slightest.

With a full end crash my nearly untouchable blaster is suddenly vulnerable as all my toggles shut down. Which is EXACTLY what the devs have said they want full crash nukes to do.


Please post the build so the devs know what the next round of set bonuses to reduce.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatred666 View Post
Please post the build so the devs know what the next round of set bonuses to reduce.
Started a thread wit it in it.

I didn't use anything that is out of line bonus-wise, so I doubt any nerfing will come of it. It's all stuff that is fair for the amount of slots invested.

It gives up a little bit to do it too, so it's hardly overpowered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatred666 View Post
Please post the build so the devs know what the next round of set bonuses to reduce.
set bonuses have changed, blu bluh bluhh bloooooo