< < < DEAR DEVs: A letter from the Base Builders > > >
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-05-01 08:49 in Base Construction
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
From another thread discussing ComicCon stuff, including a Q&A session with the devs...
Pretty much says it all, right there. *washes hands* . |
It is entirely possible that the Devs have been told to wait and see what sort of cashflow F2P generates before devoting any of it to bases. As usual they may also have been told to keep mum about it. I'm still hopeful.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
A recent post from Von Krieger at the comicon:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=266596
There's a lot of cool stuff. However the second to the last item reads "They do have things in mind for SG bases, but they can't talk about it. It's not Issue 21."
Hope springs eternal!
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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Originally Posted by Von Krieger
They do have things in mind for SG bases, but they can't talk about it. It's not Issue 21.
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Originally Posted by Dustified
FINALLY SOMETHING!
I'm be watching and holding you to that devs....don't make me get a pointy stick and have to use it ¬_¬ |
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
A glimmer of hope. I am enthused.
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The most "promising" aspect of this consistent refusal to "talk about bases" in the context of persistent queries is that it is also entirely in keeping with company policy of "not talking about future developments" before they are ready to release information. For example:
Question (prior to Proliferation 3.0 announcement): "Can you talk about powerset proliferation?"
Answer: "No."
Question: "Why aren't Dominators included in Powerset Proliferation 3.0 in Issue 21?"
Answer: "Because we're doing something else for Dominators that will be Awesome!"
Follow up Question: "Can you tell us more about that?"
Answer: "No."
Question: "Can you tell us more about what you're going to be doing with the remaining Incarnate Slots which have yet to be unlocked?"
Answer: "No."
The point that I want EVERYONE in this forum to take to heart is that Paragon Studios has a *habit* of working on things and not talking about them "before they're ready" to talk about them. They didn't "talk about" powerset proliferation ... but they were working on it (and oh boy were they working on it!) just the same, as we now know. They aren't "talking about" powerset proliferation, or possibly even NEW powersets(!) for Dominators (and Controllers?) post-Issue 21. Is there anyone here who wants to believe that means that they're doing *NOTHING* for Dominators post-Issue 21? They won't "talk about" what the remaining unlockable Incarnate Slots are going to do, which Trials they'll be tied to, what currency they'll use to craft the enhancements ... any of that stuff. But does anyone *BELIEVE* that because the Devs "won't talk about it" that they're "not doing anything" in this area? Let's just say that believing that would be ... foolish.
And now we have repeated statements that the Devs "can't talk about bases" in a manner that is *entirely consistent* with development work either scheduled, in progress, or possibly even both. We also know that the the Programming Team is "booked solid" as far as team time is concerned for the next 6 months (or so, at least!), and that ... one ... of the production bottlenecks in Development of new features for the game right now is Programming. Tunnel Rat has said so in UStream chats. Other Devs (Synapse? Second Measure?) have said so in UStream chats.
Anyone want to speculate how much Programming Development *any* kind of Base Editor work would require ... let alone a wholesale revamp? Personally, I'm thinking "not trivial" would be the best answer to that question (especially if talking wholesale revamp).
Yes, this IS a game of Blind Man's Bluff at this point to try and figure out what is going on with SG Bases in the development cycle. But at the same time, Paragon Studios does have a Modus Operandi when it comes to "talking about" things to develop. We've seen THAT before ... and it's better than even money that we're seeing it in operation NOW with respect to future SG Bases Development. The one thing we CAN be sure of is that there isn't going to be any kind of finished and finalized push of enhanced Base Functionality in Issue 21. THAT MUCH has been made clear.
But Second Measure, in his role as Producer, and by his own admission on saturday's UStream broadcast from SDCC, "lives in the future" of CoH:F because he's already engaging in meetings about what is going into Issues 22 and 23 (and possibly even 24, although he didn't state this explicitly).
Question: "Can you talk about Issue 22?"
Answer: "No."
Question: "Can you talk about future development(s) for SG Bases?"
Answer: "No."
Anyone want to believe that the Devs are NOT working on Issue 22, even in a preliminary capacity? I'm willing to bet the answer to that is "NO" simply because it's self-evident that they must be, already.
Anyone want to believe that the Devs are NOT doing any work on SG Bases ... ever again? Note very carefully that if SG Bases were an "abandoned feature" as so many of us had feared, it would be VERY EASY for someone ... anyone ... to come along and flat out state, for the record, that there are NO PLANS, of any kind, anywhere in the forseeable future, to do anything at all with SG Bases. The Devs *HAVE* come out and said, in answer to questions about some topics, that there is "No Work Being Done" or planned to be done in that area. When something is *NOT* up for revision/remodeling/redevelopment, the Devs have been forthcoming in saying so, that there is no effort being expended in that direction. They don't say, "we aren't talking about it" (or words to that effect), they just come right out and say that there's nothing being done or there are no resources allocated for that effort. THAT they DO say.
Significantly, in this case, the Devs are NOT saying there's *nothing* happening on the SG Bases front. What they DO SAY is that they "can't talk about" what IS (or is not, if you're pessimistic about this ... still) happening on the SG Bases front. And that "can't talk about it" response is entirely in keeping with something happening.
It's not going to be something for Issue 21 ... that much is clear.
But it might be Issue 22 ... or maybe even Issue 23 (which at this point I would peg at being a year away, for Issue 23). At the very least though ... SOMETHING ... appears to be happening ... so long as you're a decent player at the game of Blind Man's Bluff ... and if you've been paying attention to the *shape* of the language Paragon Studios uses to talk (or not) about what is being worked on, but news of which hasn't leaked yet.
This analysis is by no means conclusive PROOF of a development effort for SG Bases at Paragon Studios ... but if you're inclined to optimism (and not everyone who reads this forum is, at this point), it IS a reason to (re)kindle a flame that has long been guttering and dying.
HOPE.
If you know how to read the signs, and not be overwhelmed by your past disappointments and cynicsm ... it is possible to hope. Whether you do, or not, is up to you.
Me? I'm betting on hope.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
For every dev base "no comment" that might inspire "hope" there is a real comment that led to Nowhereville (and the years passed by).
Positron said: "All your base are belong to us".
Sunstorm said: "I'm still working on content for bases, and we have very big plans waiting in the wings."
War Witch said (which triggered the last player frenzy on this topic): "... new textures... Suggestions?"
I cannot list the number of players (including, unfortunately, yours truly) that claimed they had the inside scoop on what the devs were doing and when... who were wrong!
Are these bad people (except for me)? Were they saying bad things on purpose? Of course not!
IMHO the devs are doing the right thing by not saying anything and we players would be well served to expect nothing until it actually appears in game. Development can be a very involved process (gauntlet). It takes resources and perseverance to see things through and many efforts fall short. So far bases have failed to make the cut almost every single time (I know, I know... here's where others will say "we need to keep up the pressure". That's fine... to a point... but the ball is not in the player's court on this issue).
The opposite of hope is dooom. Believe it or not, I'm not preaching doom. Bases are not dead; nor is there any reasonable expectation that they will be wiped from the game without replacement anytime soon. People universally acknowledge great decorating things have been done with what we have and many functional items have at least some utility...despite many obvious limitations.
That said, we need to acknowledge that bases are not critical to the game, the code has "issues", and there is a constant battle for resources that bases have very rarely "won". All I'm asking is that people consider the very real possibility that what we have is what there is for quite a long time (like what we have already endured). We are far (in terms of both time and effort) from seeing results. Hope? Ok. Expect? Nope.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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Well-said! I, for one, am also willing to wait in joyful hope.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Away
we need to acknowledge that bases are not critical to the game, the code has "issues", and there is a constant battle for resources that bases have very rarely "won". All I'm asking is that people consider the very real possibility that what we have is what there is for quite a long time (like what we have already endured). We are far (in terms of both time and effort) from seeing results. Hope? Ok. Expect? Nope.
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-- Vivian
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It's like the dead horse celebrating based on hearing it finally might not be kicked anymore. There's simply been too many times(see above) that offered various amounts of hope(Posi's quote being the biggy since those changes were talked about getting ready for beta) and yet there has been minimal done to bases. While the standard dev reply vastly is "no," we have known of things to at least hit the whiteboard, so it's not like they don't tip their hat. Any tipping of the hat in regards to bases so far has gone nowhere. There's a ton of work that could be put into bases, but I'm waiting to see it in a upcoming issue preview.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Away
For every dev base "no comment" that might inspire "hope" there is a real comment that led to Nowhereville (and the years passed by).
Positron said: "All your base are belong to us". Sunstorm said: "I'm still working on content for bases, and we have very big plans waiting in the wings." War Witch said (which triggered the last player frenzy on this topic): "... new textures... Suggestions?" |
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I'm sorry, Vivian, but your reasoning is way off. First...there is no need to charge for base items. Only VIP players can start bases...so we would already be paying to have bases.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Vivian
I think that this is a case where your love for bases, and your very powerful desire to see them grow and evolve is blinding you to the financial realities that have forced them to take a back burner in the face of more urgent development priorities.
I would like us to take a step back and try to give it an objective look. Rhetorically, in your opinion, how many base builders are there in the playerbase right now that would pay real world money in the form of microtransactions to build their bases? One hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? A thousand? Among that number of base-builders, among those who would spend real-world-money under a microtransaction model, you'll find a wide range of money spent -- wealthy builders will plop down hundreds of dollars, whereas more frugal souls will eke out single dollars for specific, highly-desired items and grind to make the rest. Let's say the average builder's "buy" for base items is around $20. That means that the average base builder will spend $20 on base items. Fair, right? Some few may spend more, but the vast majority will spend less -- or nothing. Let's take the largest number above -- a thousand base builders -- and multiply that by $20... it's $20,000. But let's say there are two thousand base builders -- let's say that the new base shinies and larger population from F2P will attract more folks, and double the number of buyers! Yet... that's still only $40,000. Let's be crazy and double that again for no apparent reason -- it's still only $80,000. This is not a "large source" of revenue... large sources are several millions of dollars. Moreover, and perhaps more importantly -- this is not "recurring" revenue. Much like a Pack, Base Item Purchases would be one-shot, one-time purchases. Packs are inherently risky, as they cost a certain amount to develop, and each player will only buy one of them. If they don't sell enough to cover their cost of development, then NCsoft winds up breaking even -- or losing money on the Pack. Not exactly ideal. In order to prosper, CoX needs recurring revenue. That's money that keeps coming in, month after month. This is needed in order to be able for Paragon Studios to afford more permanent staff and for CoX to rise on the ranks of NCsoft's Annual Earnings Reports -- for that is truly its only safeguard against eventual dissolution. Bear in mind that the cost of overhauling SG Bases involves several months of work by a team of programmers, modelers, texture artists, riggers, animators, effect artists, designers, testers and producers. That labor represents a cost of many hundreds of thousands of dollars, not including the other overhead of the company surrounding them. However -- that being said, and that sobering dose of reality having been handed out, I do have a suggestion that would make all of this possible: If SG base "rent" was ACTUAL rent -- in other words, if it was a real, recurring monthly cost in real-world money -- that would serve to justify the expense of a Base Overhaul. I.e., if a case could be made that the income from a base overhaul would see a Return on Investment within "X" months for NCsoft, we'd probably see it happen.Yet -- I cannot help but think that the base builder and player community would wholeheartedly reject any such extra recurring monthly cost for something they have received for free for so long already. So, we are at an impasse -- and thus, in my humble opinion, Bases will probably stay exactly where they are until and unless the Free-to-Play model injects a ton of cash and changes the current dynamic. -- Vivian |
Second, in regard to Base packs...just how much do you actually think these packs they release are making them? Do you really think the Super Science pack made them more than $20,000? Or the Wedding Pack?
In addition, you said there are as many as 5,000 base builders. There are actually more than that, but lets go with half of what you say. The average cost of a pack is not $20, it's $10. So if it's an acocunt wide pack and 2,500 people buy it, that's $25,000. You cannot tell me that commiting to a day per week for base development would cost more than $25,000 annually.
But even without the packs. What if the devs just agreed to add 5 new base items every other issue? Or 2 base items per issue? I would be happy with that. Especially since it would be items that are already in the game.
The devs already have water tiles. They already have Arachnos base items. All they have to do is add the info, pricing and graphic to the base editor. THAT's all.
That's not development, it's redistribution. Easily done in half a day at most if they think it through first.
AND THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD PAY REAL MONEY TO HAVE A BASE! That idea is insane and CoX would lose their most loyal subscribers...the BBC.
What you are not grasping is the BBC are the most loyal players. To everyone else, CoX is just a game. BBS people develop an attachment to the things they create, so they stay.
You are right...recurring revenue is important. But you are wrong if you think most people will keep paying when FREEDOM comes out. Most will go free-2-play. Heck, most are VIPs right now attempting to unlock content for when they can play free.
I got so fed up with the lack of attention bases get that I left for the past 2 months. I came back because a friend paid my subscription for a month for my birthday. And I was a player since the original beta of CoH.
I've heard rumors something is planned...but we've all heard those rumors before. I'll believe it when I see it. But with all the downtime lately, they are not convincing me I was wrong for leaving.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Vivian The goal of it is to generate a reliable, recurring, Base-specific revenue stream for Paragon Studios that could be used to maintain the salaries and overhead of a small Base Team, who would do nothing every month but work on Base content. One-shot Base Packs won't do that. -- Vivian |
As contributors to the bottom line, we as customers have a right to seek satisfaction.
(Continued)
Here's the issue at it's most basic premise. Waaaay back when this game was in development, I was a member of this community. From the week the development of City of Heroes was announced and its website launched, I was here. I'm talking years before the game was released.
During that time, you know who were here at the site? Thousands upon thousands of comic book fans. The site had over 40,000 people registered back then. 40,000.
Shortly before, or just after launch, the forums and main site received a makeover and the original posts were lost. But speaking as someone who was there, the reason we all wanted this game was so that we could experience the life of heroes and/or heroes groups.
Now, we're talking about people who were loyal to the game before it even came out. Over 40,000.
Why do you think bases were added? Because those people requested it. you see, back then, Cryptic listened to us. If we made a request, Positron or another developer would respond directly on the forums.
Where is the 40,000 now? Most of them have moved on. Why? Because no matter how many new costume pieces you add, no matter how must you improve PVP, no matter how many new trials, flashbacks or whatever you add, none of that develops loyalty to the game like bases do.
Every other aspect of CoX is temporary. How many times can you do a task force before it gets old? How many arcs can you create in MA before you get nerfed so much that it's no longer fun and used only by farmers? The costume creator? What's billed as "limitless" (originally) is actually very limited.
The truth is we have lost thousands of base builders. To prove it, simply look at the oldest posts in this section and see how many have active forum subscriptions.
They left. Why? It wasn't because the game got boring. Heck, base builders spend hours upon hours in their bases...it's always boring when you are building. It was because they got tired of being ignored.
If the devs were smart, they would revamp the base building system and make a big deal of it in the press...because it WOULD bring thousands back to the game.
But, first they need to hold onto those of us that are still here...and that means tossing us some bones. Add more items to the editor at least. That would satisfy many.
Add bottoms to items that are see-thru when raised. That would help.
Give us a bigger entry room option. Heck, there is zero reason for that not to happen...it's just a room with a few more tiles added.
I don't even need a complete overhaul...I would be satisfied to see a couple items per issue added. IT would feel like Christmas at this point.
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I'm sorry to be rude but were you dropped on your head repeatedly? I ask because only someone who has suffered some sort of cerebral trauma could possibly believe that the company made less than $20,000 on the individual booster packs.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
Second, in regard to Base packs...just how much do you actually think these packs they release are making them? Do you really think the Super Science pack made them more than $20,000? Or the Wedding Pack?
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My god if that booster was that colossal a failure they would never have made any others. NCSoft/PS does not throw money away on features and games that don't turn a profit.
The actual number of people that have bought boosters is most likely a lot closer to 50,000 to 60,000 for each booster pack.
If you are going to speculate about the numbers please try to make them believable.
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Here's the problem:|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
This is called being persistent. I know, because I'm the one who has been doing it. Zwillinger gave that answer in response to MY question in the UStream Chat. Because even the *shaping* of a refusal to "talk about bases" contains information which can inspire hope (or despair ... take your pick).
The most "promising" aspect of this consistent refusal to "talk about bases" in the context of persistent queries is that it is also entirely in keeping with company policy of "not talking about future developments" before they are ready to release information. For example: Question (prior to Proliferation 3.0 announcement): "Can you talk about powerset proliferation?" Answer: "No." Question: "Why aren't Dominators included in Powerset Proliferation 3.0 in Issue 21?" Answer: "Because we're doing something else for Dominators that will be Awesome!" Follow up Question: "Can you tell us more about that?" Answer: "No." Question: "Can you tell us more about what you're going to be doing with the remaining Incarnate Slots which have yet to be unlocked?" Answer: "No." The point that I want EVERYONE in this forum to take to heart is that Paragon Studios has a *habit* of working on things and not talking about them "before they're ready" to talk about them. They didn't "talk about" powerset proliferation ... but they were working on it (and oh boy were they working on it!) just the same, as we now know. They aren't "talking about" powerset proliferation, or possibly even NEW powersets(!) for Dominators (and Controllers?) post-Issue 21. Is there anyone here who wants to believe that means that they're doing *NOTHING* for Dominators post-Issue 21? They won't "talk about" what the remaining unlockable Incarnate Slots are going to do, which Trials they'll be tied to, what currency they'll use to craft the enhancements ... any of that stuff. But does anyone *BELIEVE* that because the Devs "won't talk about it" that they're "not doing anything" in this area? Let's just say that believing that would be ... foolish. And now we have repeated statements that the Devs "can't talk about bases" in a manner that is *entirely consistent* with development work either scheduled, in progress, or possibly even both. We also know that the the Programming Team is "booked solid" as far as team time is concerned for the next 6 months (or so, at least!), and that ... one ... of the production bottlenecks in Development of new features for the game right now is Programming. Tunnel Rat has said so in UStream chats. Other Devs (Synapse? Second Measure?) have said so in UStream chats. Anyone want to speculate how much Programming Development *any* kind of Base Editor work would require ... let alone a wholesale revamp? Personally, I'm thinking "not trivial" would be the best answer to that question (especially if talking wholesale revamp). Yes, this IS a game of Blind Man's Bluff at this point to try and figure out what is going on with SG Bases in the development cycle. But at the same time, Paragon Studios does have a Modus Operandi when it comes to "talking about" things to develop. We've seen THAT before ... and it's better than even money that we're seeing it in operation NOW with respect to future SG Bases Development. The one thing we CAN be sure of is that there isn't going to be any kind of finished and finalized push of enhanced Base Functionality in Issue 21. THAT MUCH has been made clear. But Second Measure, in his role as Producer, and by his own admission on saturday's UStream broadcast from SDCC, "lives in the future" of CoH:F because he's already engaging in meetings about what is going into Issues 22 and 23 (and possibly even 24, although he didn't state this explicitly). Question: "Can you talk about Issue 22?" Answer: "No." Question: "Can you talk about future development(s) for SG Bases?" Answer: "No." Anyone want to believe that the Devs are NOT working on Issue 22, even in a preliminary capacity? I'm willing to bet the answer to that is "NO" simply because it's self-evident that they must be, already. Anyone want to believe that the Devs are NOT doing any work on SG Bases ... ever again? Note very carefully that if SG Bases were an "abandoned feature" as so many of us had feared, it would be VERY EASY for someone ... anyone ... to come along and flat out state, for the record, that there are NO PLANS, of any kind, anywhere in the forseeable future, to do anything at all with SG Bases. The Devs *HAVE* come out and said, in answer to questions about some topics, that there is "No Work Being Done" or planned to be done in that area. When something is *NOT* up for revision/remodeling/redevelopment, the Devs have been forthcoming in saying so, that there is no effort being expended in that direction. They don't say, "we aren't talking about it" (or words to that effect), they just come right out and say that there's nothing being done or there are no resources allocated for that effort. THAT they DO say. Significantly, in this case, the Devs are NOT saying there's *nothing* happening on the SG Bases front. What they DO SAY is that they "can't talk about" what IS (or is not, if you're pessimistic about this ... still) happening on the SG Bases front. And that "can't talk about it" response is entirely in keeping with something happening. It's not going to be something for Issue 21 ... that much is clear. But it might be Issue 22 ... or maybe even Issue 23 (which at this point I would peg at being a year away, for Issue 23). At the very least though ... SOMETHING ... appears to be happening ... so long as you're a decent player at the game of Blind Man's Bluff ... and if you've been paying attention to the *shape* of the language Paragon Studios uses to talk (or not) about what is being worked on, but news of which hasn't leaked yet. This analysis is by no means conclusive PROOF of a development effort for SG Bases at Paragon Studios ... but if you're inclined to optimism (and not everyone who reads this forum is, at this point), it IS a reason to (re)kindle a flame that has long been guttering and dying. HOPE. If you know how to read the signs, and not be overwhelmed by your past disappointments and cynicsm ... it is possible to hope. Whether you do, or not, is up to you. Me? I'm betting on hope. |
Saying "No" about things for a year because it is in development is fine. But with Base builders it has lasted years with very little to show for it. At this point, by refusing to discuss it, many take it to mean "We don't care about the base builders and we're tired of the requests."
As to a Personal Space pack, there several major hurdles to overcome:
1) Item Limit. If personal chambers are a part of a base, they count against the item limit. So assume someone gets the bright idea to line his ceiling with bottles. Hundreds of items against the item limit in one shot.
2) Base Rent. What if the base rent is unpaid? Then players cannot get into their rooms that they paid real money to have? That would be pretty bad.
3) Storage Limits. If personal space is inside a base, then their storage counts against storage limits. You are permitted 150 members...does that mean only 19 would be allowed to store things in their personal space? Would not work.
4) Lag. If you are a full SG and if 50-100 people enter their personal space at the same time, and it is within a base, lag will become a major issue. In some cases, bases have broken simply because too many people were in at the same time (I know because I've done it).
Personal Chambers must be seperate from bases. There is no way around it. They also have to be spawned in their own zone.
In order for it to work, Personal spaces would need to:
1) Not be contained in bases. Instead, add "apartment buildings" to zones where they enter and zone into their personal chambers.
2) Do not allow medical facilities in personal chambers. That's what hospitals and bases are for. A Personal space is a home. It's where heroes/villains go at the end of a long day.
3) Limit their storage to 2 containers; one for IOs, one for Insirations. And one invention table. Storage should be in a different container than in bases...like a refridgerator could hold IOs for example. Or a dresser hold Inspirs.
4) Placeable items should not be the same as in a base. Instead, have common household items like beds, kitchens, living room furniture.
5) The Prestige payment system will need to NOT apply to personal space. It will have to either be free with purchase of the pack, or be paid with influence.
6) People should be able to form a "pact" to share personal space...this way couples can live together for example. Pacts should double storage capacity.
IF I WERE THE DEVS...
Here's what I would do as a temporary fix to satisfy base-builders. At this point, we would all be happy to not be ignored.
1) Add two items per issue. The items could be items that are already in the mission building system...for example, a pool or water, Rikti computer, ramps, balconies and steps long enough to reach them. These are items already in the game as part of an actual building system.
2) Second floors. My suggestion is to have a floor tile that is thick enough to look lke a real floor and is not transparent from the bottom. It anchors to a wall, and addition tiles can be placed on anchored tiles. Sort of like stacking wall lamps outward. Make this tiles so that things can be place on them just like a floor.
The advantage to this would be we could control the height by using the wall. That way we could have as many as 3 levels in our basses.
3) Increase the storage limits. We have 150 members and only permitted what? 19 storage? Makes no sense. One option would be to make our personal storage vault mor like the Wentworths window, so that it can hold any of our items, and increase the limit. That way everyone would have the storage they need.
4) Add a dropdown to assign a room to an SG member. That way only that member of the superleader can edit the room. Only the Superleader can move the room.
5) Give us a visual labeling system. Places a members name above a door would be great. Or labeling storage. Or a symple sign giving directions. If not lables, then various colors wall arrows. Then we can tell members "follow the red arrows to find the telepads".
6) More style options. They are simple patterns that already exist in the game. And make existing ones match more closely.
7) Remove doorways completely. Let us create "halls" instead...rooms of one tile or large in width and length that can be placed between rooms. This way they are actually rooms that we can decorate and we can have double and tripple doors. You can also allow rooms to join wall-to-wall and thereby remove that wall where they are joined. If you want the wall, put empty space there by adding a 1 tile hall.
8) Give us an update on telepads. the existing ones work, but something more streamlines should be added as well. The Justice League, for example, has small tubes like our medlab thingies. It must be possible to come up with something close.
All of the above things can be added 1-2 items per issue with little effort (escept the hallway idea). No reason why some of these cannot be done.
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Okay...maybe you are right. Maybe I am. I have no idea how to prove it, do you? If so, lets find out so that we do not have to speculate.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The actual number of people that have bought boosters is most likely a lot closer to 50,000 to 60,000 for each booster pack.
If you are going to speculate about the numbers please try to make them believable. |
But I will tell you that some of the boosters simply are not interesting to a large umber of people. For example, how many guys would buy the wedding pack? Since it was the first one out, maybe some did...but I would wager not many. And they do not cost $20, they cost $10.
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The fact that boosters were a success has already been proven by the simple fact that they kept making them.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
Okay...maybe you are right. Maybe I am. I have no idea how to prove it, do you?
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NCSoft is notorious for cutting their losses on anything that doesn't show a profit. If the Science booster failed as abysmally as you've guesstimated none of the other boosters would have ever been published.
Furthermore this game would never have switched to a hybrid business model if the success of the boosters hadn't convinced the company they could more money selling micro-transactions.
A-Angel, your vitriolic wall 'o text rants do not impress me.
You still have not learned how to present a discussion in a manner that doesn't include insults and derogatory statements. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if the Devs, like myself, have simply decided to tune you out.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
2 cents worth... as a base builder (yeah I have 8 or 9 of them) and would like to see 'new stuff' added to the 'old stuff'. The down side is that most poeple don't really go into bases unless they want to TP someplace (and the Oro tper and Pocket D tper hasn't recharged yet) or they want to build/store something because it's a lot shorter walk to the base portal then to a University/Personal storage locker/you ran out of space at WW/BM and have to put it someplace and that's assuming you feel comfortable putting that LOGgr in a public bin.
Maybe giving the folks that are in charge something to aim at instead of whining and moaning would work better. Whats the old saying... "you can attract more baffaloe with partially hydrogenized corn syrup then red dye number 8?"
I saw several really good suggestions for what you can use bases for... maybe focusing on those and putting forth ideas that will broaden the use of bases instead of worrying about being able to put something that looks cool in them would help. The number of people that actually use bases is probably directly proportional to the amount of time and energy that goes into thinking about them by the powers that be.
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If I had a hammer... I'd hammer in the morning.. I'd hammer in the evening.. all over this land...
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Do you really think they sold only 2000 of those packs? Ha ha ha. No. If they only sold 2000 of them, then they would never have made another.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
Second, in regard to Base packs...just how much do you actually think these packs they release are making them? Do you really think the Super Science pack made them more than $20,000? Or the Wedding Pack?
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AND THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD PAY REAL MONEY TO HAVE A BASE! That idea is insane and CoX would lose their most loyal subscribers...the BBC. What you are not grasping is the BBC are the most loyal players. To everyone else, CoX is just a game. BBS people develop an attachment to the things they create, so they stay. |
Do you really believe that people don't develop attachments to their characters, as strong and stronger than your attachment to a base? You're as crazy as you seem to be if that's your honest belief.
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| But I will tell you that some of the boosters simply are not interesting to a large umber of people. |
Look. You really enjoy bases and they seem to be the best part of the game for you. You gotta understand that base building isn't the core game and won't ever get the kind of attention that other parts get. I wish the tools were better. I really do. I don't expect them to ever be made better, because once you step outside the circle of dedicated base builders, you realize that many (most?) players just don't care that much about bases. They are not going to bat an eyelash if their SG base is a perfunctory, ugly mess that has a couple rooms full of porters and some insp storage. They just don't value it enough to put forth the effort, so they are happy with function over form. That doesn't mean they are bad people or somehow less loyal than you are. It just means they enjoy and value different aspects of the game.
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I'm not entirely sure what this was all about honestly but just thought I'd say I think you'd be surprised how many people are closet base hobbyists. I'm always surprised by how many people spend an inordinate amount of time on their bases. -cough- Myself included.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Do you really think they sold only 2000 of those packs? Ha ha ha. No. If they only sold 2000 of them, then they would never have made another.
You have got some serious blinders on, buddy. I know how it is; the idea that your group (whatever it may be) is the real, true supporters and what is good for them is good for the game... it's very appealing. It's also wrong. Base builders are no more the "most loyal" subscribers than marketeers, PVPers, or RPers. Do you really believe that people don't develop attachments to their characters, as strong and stronger than your attachment to a base? You're as crazy as you seem to be if that's your honest belief. Bases are not interesting to a large number of people, either. Look. You really enjoy bases and they seem to be the best part of the game for you. You gotta understand that base building isn't the core game and won't ever get the kind of attention that other parts get. I wish the tools were better. I really do. I don't expect them to ever be made better, because once you step outside the circle of dedicated base builders, you realize that many (most?) players just don't care that much about bases. They are not going to bat an eyelash if their SG base is a perfunctory, ugly mess that has a couple rooms full of porters and some insp storage. They just don't value it enough to put forth the effort, so they are happy with function over form. That doesn't mean they are bad people or somehow less loyal than you are. It just means they enjoy and value different aspects of the game. |
Anyhow, carry on. I'm sure the guys still insane.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
One idea that occured to me after I finished my last "rant" was
The ability to lock IO storage bins (as an option or optional ability via the drop down menu on permissions) so that only the person that puts an item into the bin has the ability to take it out... or in the alternative on option to make things "mine only" when you put them in a bin.
Another idea I put forth years ago was about the base Med center thingys... I don't bother putting them in my newer bases as nobody uses them... but if upon dying you hit the base med center and it redeposited you outside the door of the mission you died in (via the base exit)... I would probably put med centers back in my bases because then they would actually be useful.
just some random thoughts..
As you were
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Beware of Geeks bearing Gifs.
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Well, when people start rioting in the streets that does get the attention very quickly. Just sitting a waiting that they will one day give you something might work, but you will be waiting for a while. If enough people just get bitter and angry about it a change might happen. (just my personal input)
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
While I do agree that bases need some loving, a belligerent and confrontational attitude isn't going to help one damn bit.
-np |
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
UStream Chat @ 1h42m Zwillinger specifically mentioned that there is work happening on Bases, he just can't talk about it.
Don't take my word for it ... click on the link given and go make your own interpretation.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
The only thing about future base content that I KNOW for SURE, deep in my heart, is that if it ever does happen it will either be:
a. A bone or
b. Something that some players will swoon over and others will rage about Some, BOTH.
I have resigned myself to never being able to get excited about base building, ever again. 
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Originally Posted by Kallandra
The veteran Base Items are now only claimable once too, instead of repeatable like they should be *sigh*
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Originally Posted by Synapse
There's a fix for this in the works. You'll likely see it in issue 21.5. Instead of needing to claim base items multiple times you'll only need to claim them once. Then you can place the items an infinite number of times.
Synapse |
I'm not sure *WHY* I get that feeling, but I'm sure it'll come to me eventually ...
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
So... we took two steps backward in the last issue (which were pointed out early in beta) with sg banners and multi-claimed base items and now it looks like we may soon get back to even. Sorry but, I'm not ready to declare victory on base development based on that.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
I agree that this poster does not speak for all of us, as I advocate a balanced approach. I understand that even making small changes in bases means making a large contribution in return for little rewards for the developers. I am thankful for the changes they have given us. I think there should be small changes made (such as increasing the limit people who can be in a SG, etc.) over time to make SGs important again. I think if SGs became important again, then it could be more worthwhile to make larger changes, such as an eventual base overhaul. We need to be progressive, not revolutionary.
I have been a base luver since I first joined the game shortly after CoV came out. I would be a base editor if the editorial tools were better. While this may not be the best time for a revolution regarding bases it may be the perfect time...we simply don't know.
I am determined to try one last time to rally the players and get Dev attention. It may be a moot point because Bases are dead. It may be a moot point because of the super-secret base luv project just around the Incarnate corner. None of us knows. I would rather err on the side of hope because that's who I am. With any luck the new F2P model will generate the cash necessary to give Bases the luv we're hoping for.
None of us is expending any money trying to gather support for bases. We're merely spending time. If players truly don't care then that's fine but if they do...if they're willing to devote just a little time to our cause...then we might yet succeed. Until a Dev specifically says that Bases and SGs are dead I'd like to try one last time.
I strongly urge all of the Base Builders and possible Base Builders reading this to go to our current event on the Base Forum and submit an entry. Then stay tuned for our LIVE event upcoming in August or early September. That will be our big push for Base awareness...all our energies focussed in one place at one time.
All it takes is a little time...
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"