< < < DEAR DEVs: A letter from the Base Builders > > >
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-05-01 08:49 in Base Construction
Hire a base dev Paragon.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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I think we are more like the feet of the ladder sunk down in the mud, the devs keep meaning to wash the mud off but there is another project that needs attending to and they will get to it later. |
Originally Posted by unjust
I think the base building community has firmly been planted at the bottom rung of the ladder |
Unfortunately base construction as it is cant quite fill my need to play this game like I used to. Pushing the editor to its limits and then some was always fun but I think im done. It cant keep my interest like it used to. I start a project and get board with the task of working the bug to get things done. So I am boarding up the lack of windows and locking the portal door on my bases not to set foot in the editor until it can excite me again. 4785 base edit hours.........to be continued
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The only thing I've seen devs do for bases is, get ready to pad your SG/VG. Here is a Prestiege Grant. Other than that, I hav'nt seen anything get done.|
Originally Posted by unjust
There is also the old saying, "Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me". How many times do we need make lists? We have come up with different options for the dev's to use as a template for change, and they get ignored. We have told the dev's that we'd be happy with just adding in-game items, Heck, we've even told them to post in the base thread and some of us would be happy for an update. I think that we base builders have been more than helpful to the dev's in hopes for SOMETHING to make us happy.
I just feel that as a base builder, I am being ignored. |
I know plenty of people have already created lists as to what we would like to be done, but nothing really happens. Even if they only work on one or two things on any list, I know that would be a step in the right direction. I would let the Base Building community know that they are not being ignored.
Check this out.
Direct line of Communication
Hi! I have been in touch with some representatives of the Base Building Community but forum PMs aren't necessarily the best way to interact with your committee. I currently have the leads for the Player Event Ressource Committee and European Event Resource Committeeon instant messaging and would like to extend this to you. If you haven't decided on who would best represent your interests, I strongly advise that you take this opportunity to do it so I can communicate with him or her via IM.
I hope this helps with supporting your initiatives more adequately.
Thank you,
Avatea
I think base builders need to get over to the base forums and start talking.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Well, we've been talking. Lists have been made as to what could be on the developer side to make us satisfied. I'm not sure what more can be said. Most of the BB have given up trying to make a difference. Only the hardcore BB are left .
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Check this out.
Direct line of Communication Hi! I have been in touch with some representatives of the Base Building Community but forum PMs aren't necessarily the best way to interact with your committee. I currently have the leads for the Player Event Ressource Committee and European Event Resource Committeeon instant messaging and would like to extend this to you. If you haven't decided on who would best represent your interests, I strongly advise that you take this opportunity to do it so I can communicate with him or her via IM. I hope this helps with supporting your initiatives more adequately. Thank you, Avatea I think base builders need to get over to the base forums and start talking. |
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omfg im hardcore!|
Originally Posted by unjust
only the hardcore bb are left .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ekLCcqmvvk
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
I should get to work on my contest then.
this communication should at least help with getting people those neat yellow titles.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Hot damn maybe just maybe the riot was enough. I have sent Avatea a PM nominating stacker and MrHassenpheffer to be our contact here in the NA. I ask that more do the same.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Check this out.
Direct line of Communication Hi! I have been in touch with some representatives of the Base Building Community but forum PMs aren't necessarily the best way to interact with your committee. I currently have the leads for the Player Event Ressource Committee and European Event Resource Committeeon instant messaging and would like to extend this to you. If you haven't decided on who would best represent your interests, I strongly advise that you take this opportunity to do it so I can communicate with him or her via IM. I hope this helps with supporting your initiatives more adequately. Thank you, Avatea I think base builders need to get over to the base forums and start talking. |
Is that all we do? Send Avatea a pm? That almost sounds like how another forum started that got deleted because of spamming a DEV. I agree with you nominations, but I want to make sure we do this right. Is there another way to do this. Or maybe even tell Avatea that these are the nominated Base personnel. Either way works for me,I just don't wanna goof anything up.
From what I am gathering from this, it is nothing more than having access to a dev type person, or GM or mod if you will, someone in authority if we were to have say... a player made contest involving bases, which is one thing I have been waiting for.
Basically so contestants could get those neat yellow titles.
If we hold enough base related events THEN the devs might take an interest.
that is my take on it, please correct me if I am wrong and thank you.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
There is a huge difference between dev, GM, community rep, and forum Mod in terms of their roles. And there is a huge difference between contests and development in terms of results. I get the point that being noticed in one area (say community rep sponsored contests) might lead to getting noticed in another (say development) but the connection is not automatic.
My experience has been that the devs have been in "shock and awe" over base decoration for years... but that has not resulted in any base love for years either. Yellow titles may be nice for some and probably can't hurt; except that it could give the illusion that there must be behind the scences development on the way when there isn't.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
I'm not expecting this to be overnight or automatic, I'm expecting this to take some time. I'm also counting on being met with a huge amount of resistance, I'm just getting started and I have a few tricks up my sleeve.
I'm not quitting just yet.
'Cause ya know...
I'm hardcore 
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
You go with your Hardcore rabbit self!!!!
Actually, I'll nominate you for Base Builder Rep. Where do I send my ballot?
Question: Is there a history of base building development readily available? I want to look at what has been added to bases from the beginning. My recollection is we got:
- the base decorations as vet rewards (banners, tables, posters, and planes)
- Crafting table and Personal Salvage Vault
- COP with SG Items of Power returning for about a week or so
- Removal of ALL base raiding
- Removal of raid pathing which allowed some additional design options
Did I miss anything?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Question: Is there a history of base building development readily available? I want to look at what has been added to bases from the beginning. My recollection is we got:
Did I miss anything? |
the Prestige bonus for every member up to 35 I think heck it's been so long I don't even remember the amount.. but I believe you have everything else
P.S. the stacking ability was found by builders, but made easier in i13. I believe that was because they couldn't get the bases working properly for the base raiding they wanted.
I'd add: Elimination of base salvage (salvage conversion). Storage permissions. Revised base rent, plot and room pricing. Red star sg leadership designation. Return of CoP (w/o IoPs). And most of all, breakers for the beaker rack decorative item and a few other related cosmetic changes
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Oh! I forgot the best one of all. Increasing number of characters allowed in SG.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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I like that and the pathing change the best.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Oh! I forgot the best one of all. Increasing number of characters allowed in SG.
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I just took 2 1/2 months off and came back. The leave of absense was not by choice, but upon coming back I learned that nothing has actually happened since I left...so now I'm thinking of leaving completely.
And I am one of the hardcore Base Builders.
Word is Stacker is taking a hike as well.
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Rebuilding from the ground up is a good idea, but it's unlikely to yield results from the Devs. Simply adding in more items would help a lot, like the Arachnos set, a transparent SG Symbol, water...stuff like that.|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
It seems to me that what bases really need is a complete overhaul of the base designer from the ground up to make it more user-friendly, stable, and feature rich.
The problem with that, is that base building is by design only used by part of the player base - namely those members of the SG that have permissions to do so. Therefore the amount of time and effort that such an overhaul needs is not warranted by the number of players it would appeal to. The solutions suggested so far have been (1) people could create their own SG and their own bases, and (2) personal apartments could be added in addition to (and possibly linked to) SG bases. The problem with (1) is that it encourages isolation rather than community building. That's bad, so that's out. (2) sounds good and doesn't really present any problems except this: most (if not all) of the time, only one person is going to see your personal apartment. Screenshots and possible visits aside, it's not going to be the community-wide shared form of player created content that warrants a lot of development work for its own sake. It seems to me that the one thing that could provide a bit of development priority to this would be to find a way to make the hypothetical new Base Builder tool compatible with the Mission Architect. Add spawn points and other necessary mission features to the base maps that can be activated when the maps are used in active missions. This way, the base builder is also a mission map builder and, in my opinion, adds a whole new layer of depth to MA. I know that a base builder overhaul and fully customizable MA maps have both been asked for, and it makes sense to me to bundle those suggestions into one tool (and I'm sure someone else has probably suggested that too). I think that might give the Devs the justification to put the resources into it. |
Those and make cabinettes solid instead of see through from the bottom.
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The problem isn't that they can't add things, but that the current code is at it's limit. Adding just about anything needs a whole rewrite of the code. Add a polygon here, an item there, yep, whole rewrite.|
Originally Posted by American_Angel
Rebuilding from the ground up is a good idea, but it's unlikely to yield results from the Devs. Simply adding in more items would help a lot, like the Arachnos set, a transparent SG Symbol, water...stuff like that.
Those and make cabinettes solid instead of see through from the bottom. |
It's not even just bases, but the whole SG system. SG v1.x is done, it's buggy beyond repair, wasn't made with the future in mind from the beginning, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.
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Originally Posted by Feign
The problem isn't that they can't add things, but that the current code is at it's limit. Adding just about anything needs a whole rewrite of the code. Add a polygon here, an item there, yep, whole rewrite.
It's not even just bases, but the whole SG system. SG v1.x is done, it's buggy beyond repair, wasn't made with the future in mind from the beginning, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. |
I agree with you that the system needs a complete overhaul. With that there is no doubt.
But the problem with that is it's not an immediate fix. That would take months if not longer to do correctly and properly. That won't help the people like me and others, that are on the fence with the base issue. The Dev's can do something quick to make the Base Builders satisfied, we have hashed that out in other threads. It's just sad to see or hear nothing from the powers that be. It's as if we Base Builders don't exist.
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Can you tell me where this was said, or provide a link?|
Originally Posted by Feign
The problem isn't that they can't add things, but that the current code is at it's limit. Adding just about anything needs a whole rewrite of the code. Add a polygon here, an item there, yep, whole rewrite.
It's not even just bases, but the whole SG system. SG v1.x is done, it's buggy beyond repair, wasn't made with the future in mind from the beginning, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. |
It's not that I don't believe you (it explains a lot, actually), I just want to know when this was revealed and what else was said.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
I think he is thinking about the base item limit (forgot the exact number given) that was discussed post i13. I haven't heard of any limit on the items they could actually allow us to use. Honestly, I would like to see them let us use in-game art. (aka: arachnos computers, mailboxes, ect ) as a stop-gap measure to appease us till a real fix is in place. There is a bunch of already in-game art that would be nice to work with in a base.
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Originally Posted by Feign
The problem isn't that they can't add things, but that the current code is at it's limit. Adding just about anything needs a whole rewrite of the code. Add a polygon here, an item there, yep, whole rewrite.
It's not even just bases, but the whole SG system. SG v1.x is done, it's buggy beyond repair, wasn't made with the future in mind from the beginning, and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. |
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Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid
Can you tell me where this was said, or provide a link?
It's not that I don't believe you (it explains a lot, actually), I just want to know when this was revealed and what else was said. |
Yeah, I don't know that the case is that severe.
The conversations I had with War Witch didn't reveal anything that extreme, but it was made clear that the code was such a mess that it would take a lot more resources and time than is feasible (at this current time), by their calculations. Basically, the coding team is a hot commodity and can only be used to do so much (And currently is being used up on Incarnate stuff and new zone stuff).
I can only make guesses as to what extremes all of this exists to be, but Feign's post is the first I've heard of it being completely, no-other-options unworkable.
And I'm not going to just take such statements as truth, to be honest.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Yeah, to be perfectly honest... I think the only thing we can do is enjoy (or don't) what we do have. And hope it never gets any worse.
Not even in-person discussion (and pleas for posting in these forums) garnered an acknowledgment.
So, I'm not down about it. It is what it is.
While the base editor and system is so very convoluted/clumsy/limited...
It was enough to give many of us hours/days/months/years of interest.
It still does for me... and that's all I'm going to ever expect from it.
It can be daunting, but every now and then I get the bug to do more.
Maybe it'll improve one day, but... even if it does... I don't expect to hear about it until it's already done (And I really don't expect that day any year soon).
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan